Dresden Files discussion
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Changes
very late Changes reread/discussion 2014
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I'm still plugging away at my reread and yeah, it kinda stopped when Skin Game came out. I just finished Proven Guilty for the second time and I was wondering the same thing about Mab. To me, I feel like she's been manipulating Harry into her clutches from the get-go. Personally, I think she was unavoidable; she was set on Harry.I'm a bit worried as I get closer to Changes for the reasons you mentioned. That one was tough the first time around. I wonder how it will be the next time for me. Almost there.
I don't know if Harry's main problem was that he went to Mab, or that he thought it necessary to have a back-up plan in case he didn't die in the process of saving Maggie. The devil whispering in his ear convinced him that it was hopeless, while Uriel's words told him that he need not lose himself as a result of becoming the Winter Knight. Ultimately, as a result of his pro-longed absense from Chicago, his friends stopped trusting him, some lost faith completely. Marcone was able to get a better grip on Chicago.
Perhaps if Harry hadn't died, Molly would not have been as susceptible to Mab as she was, as the Leanansidhe wouldn't have taken over her training.
On the other hand, if Harry hadn't died, Uriel wouldn't have been able to whisper in his ear and give him hope, and he might have succumbed to the mantle of the Winter Knight without knowing of an alternative. So there's multiple things to consider.
Monica wrote: "I guess our reread sorta fizzled about the time Skin Game came out. And since we never discussed Changes, I've had all these dangling questions! So I'm resurrecting this discussion to settle a few ..."I managed to reread for skin game :) I've since relistened again :) I have to say, while Mab is definitely challenging, I feel strongly that she's crazy like a fox and is doing really important things for her people and Harry's and that Harry and she will need to work together to accomplish the larger goal. We'll hopefully see it tied up by the end - he's surely grown tremendously in the past two books from working with her and the other queens
I haven't gotten this far in my re-read yet, but I'm wondering... the position of the Winter Knight supposedly comes with all sorts of perks, including pay. But Harry doesn't seem to have accepted any of them. He now has a separate source of income after getting all those diamonds while Molly has a bank account that is over eight figures. What I'm wondering is... does the fact that Harry has received nothing for his service begin to create a loophole in the "contract" that will give him a legitimate way of getting out of it?
Good one! (I'm a lurker and very shy.)
I wasn't sure where to go and the guy was a little like HD
Jeanie wrote: "I haven't gotten this far in my re-read yet, but I'm wondering... the position of the Winter Knight supposedly comes with all sorts of perks, including pay. But Harry doesn't seem to have accepted..."Had thought of the fact that he wasn't being paid - and it is really pointed to when Molly says that fact - but I hadn't made that connection - great call. Sheesh I'm a lawyer I should've thought of that LOL! I guess we'll have to wait painfully to find out
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Yup, I did start that one with a bit of dread. And I agree that Mab was manipulating Harry from way back, aiming to get him on her side. But now I think she has a far larger plan. And Harry might indeed be needed.
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Lea says she sold off Harry's debt to Mab, so all that was left was the debt she owed to his mother, if I understood that correctly. I had to wonder, what did Lea need so desperately, what great favor of a mortal did she need, that it would earn her a debt of protecting the mortal's child his whole life? How did Margaret know her son would need such protection? Did she know why he was special (his birthday...), or what powers he would have? Was she prescient? And while we're at it - how powerful was she to have the knowledge of and skill with the Ways that she did?
I so want to know more about this woman! The mystery of Margaret Le Fey grows deeper...
It'd be hard to guess on what exactly Lea needed, possibly something done that could only be done by a human given all the restrictions the Fae seem to have comparatively. I'd guess Margaret didn't know precisely what Harry was destined to do, but probably just knew enough to realize she wouldn't be around to be protecting him, though maybe she/the sidhe did know more about Harry and made plans accordingly
I'd love to know for sure myself but unless he tells us explicitly or releases some prequel short stories who knows if we'll find out.
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I think Margaret must have known the significance of the day Harry was born - even perhaps what it's possible for mortals to do to immortals on that day. And perhaps things we don't know yet about what that has done for Harry. She likely knew her son was not going to be your average boy, or even your average wizard. But it's a guess whether she could know any more about his role in the future. It's all her preparing that makes me think she knew something.
And yes, it's killing me. I need to KNOW.
So with all this talk about Lea I just thought I would ask this, has anyone thought that Lea might be Harry's grandmother? I just fine it interesting that no one has asked who Margaret's mother was. And Margaret had quite a relationship with Lea. The sire of Fay and humans can choose to be Fay or human. We know Ebenezer has lots of secrets. It also might go to explain why Lea has been so protective (in her own twisted way) of Harry. Family is such a big thing in these novels that addressing Harry's grandmother seems to be something that has to happen and given Butcher's history of introducing characters early then finding more about them later, it seems unlikely that we haven't already met her without knowing it.
Thoughts?
Hadn't really ever considered that Lea could actually be Harry's grandmother, but good point, since we really don't know a whole lot of Ebenezar's exploits as the Blackstaff. As much as I do prefer novels told from one POV, sometimes I wish we could see from a wider selection of characters, if only so some of these details could be known... Maybe he'll take forever with a release and have another collection like Side Jobs released..
Hadn't really ever considered that Lea could actually be Harry's grandmother, but good point, since we really don't know a whole lot of Ebenezar's exploits as the Blackstaff. As much as I do prefer novels told from one POV, sometimes I wish we could see from a wider selection of characters, if only so some of these details could be known... Maybe he'll take forever with a release and have another collection like Side Jobs released..
I wondered if Lea was blood relation of Harry's too.
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Monica wrote: "Yeah, I'd thought of Lea being Harry's grandmother. Not sure how plausible it is. Mostly b/c I don't see a lot of foreshadowing for it. Doesn't mean it's not the case. But Ebenezar and Lea...? Bend..."What if Harry's dad is Lea's son? He could have been a changeling who chose a mortal life. That would tie Lea and Harry together pretty tightly and maybe the price Margret paid to have Lea watch over Harry was that Margaret had to marry Harry's dad. (I know it's a little shaky, but we are speculating, aren't we?)
It's an interesting idea - I would say I think it's plausible to have Lea be a member of Harry's family - but remember her apparent age is irrelevant - she could be Ebenezer's mother - or great great grandma even. The question of why she was so 'close' to Margaret is one that has never been addressed. In truth, while we see the summer court as being hospitable to some mortals such as Elaine, I have never seen, nor given the nature of it can I imagine, the winter court having the same draw.
I have to say, rereading Changes was harder than the first time. The first time around, I didn't know how bad things were going to get. On my reread, with every step, every battle, I knew the enormity of what they were doing. That every time he said, "But it's mine," he was going to lose that. It was hard to watch everything get stripped away from him like that. But there's something to be said for friendship. He never lost those.
It does seem to me as if the universe was forcing Dresden's hand so he had only Mab to turn to. The universe, or some force in it, in trying to seduce him in some way, had struck out, but then found his Achilles heel and knew it had him by the balls. But what gets me is that all those who'd turned away from him at first came to his aid in the end. Even Vadderung. If Harry had known they would, maybe he wouldn't have gone to Mab. In some ways, it makes his sacrifice unnecessary - except that none of them likely could have fixed him like Mab did. So, maybe not so unnecessary.
Thoughts? Was his deal with Mab inevitable? Avoidable? Necessary?