The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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Hard Times
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Hard Times by Dickens, Part II, Chapters 7-12
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The death of Mrs. Gradgrind may only have affected Louisa. She is, at the moment the only one who has shown any emotion (although I suspect more is coming). Dad is described as having buried his wife as a matter if business to be done. Although, the pent up grief may be part of what contributes to a breakdown or epiphany later in the novel. He certainly seems genuinely troubled by Louisa's revelations of the final chapter in this section. So far the only chapter I've really liked is Mrs. Sparsit's Staircase. It seemed to convey more emotion, and engendered in me more emotion, than any previous chapter. In some ways it reminded me if the chapter on the Ghost Walk in Bleak House. I also like the way the succeeding chapters follow the metaphor. Poor Louisa, surrounded by this pack of selfish, self-indulgent wolves (and whelps)!
As to the whelp, I completely believe that he has done what has been hinted. I think he was in money trouble, of which his sister did not bail him out as before. I think he stole from the money box in his office with no thought as to the consequences. And I think he set up Stephen Blackpool to look like the guilty party. Which is the most repulsive of his actions, although Tom may not have the emotional (or intellectual depth) to realize (or care) how this may play out for the person he has incriminated.
I also have to wonder how things will play out, now that the mysterious old woman has been incriminated. Since we suspect that she is from Bounderby's past.
And what of Sissy. She's had so little part in this tale, other than as the potential emotional salvation of father and daughter.
Zulfiya-
It's all craziness now, but you'll be so happy in your new home when the craziness is done!
Renee wrote: " Dad is described as having buried his wife as a matter if business to be done. Although, the pent up grief may be part of what contributes to a breakdown or epiphany later in the novel. He certainly seems genuinely troubled by Louisa's revelations of the final chapter in this section. "His coldness really befuddles me. It is all about the regularity of life, not about feelings. I am afraid, as you said, he will eventually experience all these emotions as heavens will open. I only hope he will not be consumed by the flood of all emotions when they pour into him ... if they do:-)
Yes! As someone said, Gradgrind doesn't seem a malicious man, merely wrongheaded in his firmly held beliefs.
Mrs Sparsit's vision of the staircase leading Louisa down to disgrace is a clever analogy. Her pursuit of L first to the country house and then into town was amusing, luckily L was too deep in her own thoughts to notice MrsS. Loved the description of the state of her MrsS's clothes- "with a bonnet like an overripe fig" and "a stagnant verdure on her general exterior". The scene with L's father was very touching as she asks him to "save" her. Is she asking to be saved from the loveless situation she finds herself in with Boundersby or from the actions she might take with Harthouse? I don't know whether she has feelings of love for Harthouse, she is more likely flattered by the attention and probably having someone interesting to talk to.
Mr Gradgrind only did the absolute minimum when he heard of his wife's death. Maybe L's plight will allow him to show himself a more worthy father. His manual of facts don't seem to have equipped him for being a good parent.
Like Renee and Helen-in-the-UK, I really liked Mrs Sparsit's staircase. In fact I'm liking Mrs Sparsit altogether: I find her and Bounderby to be two of the most vivid characters in the book, which bounces along when they're centre stage but can drag at other times. Although Louisa is the heroine (? or is she?) she's not a particularly sympathetic character because of her coldness. Obviously this is a result of her upbringing, but it does give Dickens a problem in portraying her as someone the reader can identify with. In her scene with her father, I think she's being asked to be saved from Bounderby rather than from herself. I felt for Gradgrind here: as Helen said, he's not a good parent, but neither is he a wicked one, and Louisa seems to be aware that he loves her in his own way. None the less she complains in rather melodramatic terms that she was taught nothing of affection and knows nothing of love. Yet she loves Tom! None of this quite hangs together.
As for poor Mrs Gradgrind, at least she got one good line before she drifted out of the book: "I think there's a pain somewhere in the room, but I couldn't positively say that I have got it." Love that.
Mod
Agreed-Mrs Sparsit and Mr Bounderby are typical Dickensian comic relief, although it is unclear if Mrs Sparsit is hoping to discredit Louisa so she can wound Bounderby, or if she is hoping to replace Louisa in Bounderby's affections by all her solicitousness and little digs about Louisa's neglect of her husband.
Is Mr Gradgrind having a change of heart? Will this be Sissy's role in the family-to soften the hard edges and bring back some family feeling?
I worry about the Harthouse connection. Louisa's affections for him may be genuine, but he has been showering her with attention and solicitude, which, while age appropriate, seems quite self-serving and manipulative on his part. I think there is strong reason to suspect he is trifling with her in Steerforth fashion. At least, the Louisa of the moment is strong/sensible enough to put him off and go to her father for help in her unhappiness. Still, his attentions have made her look guilty in the jealous eyes of Mrs. Sparsit, and so she may pay for his indiscretion.
Mod
I think Dickens was careful not to say it at the beginning. But Sparsit and Bounderby were living much like man and wife, in spite of their respective stations. It's one of the things that made me suspect she might be his mistress. She did seem to attend to all his other needs. But, either for propriety or literary license, the details were unexplored.
Renee wrote: "I think Dickens was careful not to say it at the beginning. But Sparsit and Bounderby were living much like man and wife, in spite of their respective stations. It's one of the things that made me ..."Apart from in the bedroom, they were like an old married couple and seemed very well suited to each other. I thinks Mrs Sparsit did have designs on being Mrs Bounderby (and that's why she couldn't bring herself to call Louisa by that name) but not for love, more for status. She makes it clear in several places that she despises Bounderby.
Mod
I disagree that Dickens is writing this book half-heartedly. Here, I think he is more interested in the subject rather than the characters. It's a bit post-modern...the characters and plot are merely devices for the subject or stand-in for specific elements of the overall subject.Louisa is the most interesting to me - what happens what we attempt to force the humanity out of someone? They become cold, impervious and lacking in empathy. But Louisa is never convinced of the importance of Facts and only Facts so there are cracks in the façade. Again, I think that is relevant to today, when individualism triumphs over community, and our relationships center around technology and material goods rather than flesh and blood.
As for Mrs. Sparsit, I'm unsure of what she thinks of Bounderby. She may dislike him because she sees herself as a person with distinguished bloodlines, and here he is, successful, from a poor background. I don't think they had any type of physical relationship - Mrs. Sparsit would never walk down those stairs (like everyone else, I love the analogy of the stairs!) - but despite the fact that she doesn't really like Bounderby, she may have had hopes that he would marry her and bring her somewhat back up to her former standing in the world.
Renee wrote: "Yes! As someone said, Gradgrind doesn't seem a malicious man, merely wrongheaded in his firmly held beliefs."I agree with that, too.
Sorry for posting so late. I had really very busy 2-3 weeks and did not manage to keep up reading. However, I finished the book yesterday evening. So I will not post too much here in case I might spoil anything.
Helen_in_the_uk wrote: ""with a bonnet like an overripe fig" and "a stagnant verdure on her general exterior". ..."great observation - despite his more factual novel there are still some fanciful treasures in his language to be found...
Emma wrote: " as Helen said, he's not a good parent, but neither is he a wicked one, and Louisa seems to be aware that he loves her in his own way. None the less she complains in rather melodramatic terms that she was taught nothing of affection and knows nothing of love. Yet she loves Tom! None of this quite hangs together...."I was also a little confused by this. She has such an affection for Tom that she sacrifices a lot for him, but cannot call it love...
Anyway, next Wednesday is a big boxing day, and I hope that in a day or two everything will be back to normal, and I will respect myself and talk to you via posts:-)
I think everyone can agree with Hedi when she mentioned some weeks ago that she was having troubles emotionally relating to these characters. I agree with her wholeheartedly - the plot is balanced and the characters are not formulaic or simplistic. Their problems are still on the agenda nowadays, but there is the spark/ the chemistry that is missing between me and his characters in this novel.
I believe that it was Renee who said that it was understandable why this novel is less heart-warming. The reason is Dickens put so much effort into the intricacies and complexities of Bleak House (and let us be honest - it is a beautiful and a very mature book) that he simply was writing this book half-heartedly.
Anyway, back to business with the chapters.
1. How can Louise's mother's death affect anyone in her family?
2. What are the roles of Mrs. Sparcit and Mr. Harthouse in the potential downfall of our main characters?
3. Why does Louisa avoid this drastic and life changing date with Mr. Harthouse?
4. Is Tomas capable of what we think he has done? Why/Why not?
5. How do Tom's actions juxtapose with the name of the book - Reaping?