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ROMAN EMPIRE -THE HISTORY...
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4. RUBICON ~ October 13th - October 19th ~ Four - Return of the Native (82 - 107) ~ No Spoilers
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4. Return of the Native
Even though Marius himself had died, the Marian forces were still quite strong. Cinna, Marius’ co-consul, wanted to take the fight against Sulla to Greece, but his soldiers refused and in the ensuing conflict, Cinna was killed. Sulla had attracted some new adherents, in particular Marcus Licinius Crassus, who had recruited an army with his own money and took it to Greece to join with Sulla. Also joining forces with Sulla was young Gnaeus Pompeius – aka Pompey the Great – who had also raised his own army. His father was the infamous Pompeius Strabo, who fought against the Italian Allies in the Social War. So Sulla had two of the richest men in Rome on his side. The final victory over the Marians at the Colline Gate was decisive.
Sulla was now the undisputed leader and his first act was to slaughter the captured Marian fighters in the Ovile on the Campus Martius while the Senate was in session nearby, where they could hear the screams of the dying. Not long after this, the Senate appointed Sulla Dictator, an office which allowed him to do pretty much whatever he wanted, with the added benefit that he couldn’t be prosecuted later for anything. One of his first acts was to reform the constitution to set up age limits for the various elected offices, and most particularly, anyone who was elected to Tribune of the Plebs could not hold any further offices, thus short-circuiting what he saw as demagogues becoming praetor or consul by appealing to the masses.
What Sulla is really famous for, though, are the proscriptions, death sentences plus confiscation of all property for anyone Sulla believed was an enemy. In addition, the sons and grandsons of the proscribed could not stand for any office. All told, there were thousands of proscriptions, and friends of Sulla could buy up the properties at bargain prices. After several months, Sulla resigned the dictatorship and was elected consul. Then he retired and supposedly lived with his long-time male lover, the actor Metrobius. He died rather gruesomely in 78 BC after writing his memoirs, which did not survive, unfortunately.
I have to say the parts where the author describes how Romans voted was fascinating. So, the rich would show up and decide the election before others could vote.I think it happens in this country sometimes when people don't feel they need to vote, and a reason why television networks should not broadcast state winners so fast to influence people from coming to the polls.
I am understanding what is happening, but am continuing to struggle with how it was perceived. I read that "with his gangs rampaging through the city, [Marius] had finally been elected to his long-prophesied seventh consulship." And then, after he dies and Sulla is named dictator, "Even Marius in the grim insanity of his final months had taken care to cloak himself in the tattered legitimacy of the consulship."So, what was this seventh"election"? Was it contested? Did Marius just happen to show up on Election Day? Was there a snap election because he'd killed Octavius? Who showed up to vote?
There are a whole series of discussions here about warlords showing up and getting elected to stuff, sometimes numerous times. Was a third election to a consulship more like FDR's third term, or more like Hugo Chavez's?
Exactly how legitimate was Marius's brief reign, and if it was not legitimate at all, why compare it favorably to Sulla's?
I am understanding what is happening, but am continuing to struggle with how it was perceived. I read that "with his gangs rampaging through the city, [Marius] had finally been elected to his long-prophesied seventh consulship." And then, after he dies and Sulla is named dictator, "Even Marius in the grim insanity of his final months had taken care to cloak himself in the tattered legitimacy of the consulship."So, what was this seventh"election"? Was it contested? Did Marius just happen to show up on Election Day? Was there a snap election because he'd killed Octavius? Who showed up to vote?
There are a whole series of discussions here about warlords showing up and getting elected to stuff, sometimes numerous times. Was a third election to a consulship more like FDR's third term, or more like Hugo Chavez's?
Exactly how legitimate was Marius's brief reign, and if it was not legitimate at all, why compare it favorably to Sulla's?
Mod
Marius had been elected consul first in 107 BC, then 5 times in a row from 104-100 BC, so his final election in 86 BC was the seventh. It does sound like there was a lot of chaos in the city at the time, so one does wonder whether the election process was normal, but his consulship was legitimate. I guess the author is suggesting that there was something unseemly about Sulla's being appointed dictator, although the Senate certainly had a right to appoint someone to the post, and conditions in Rome did warrant it. Normally a dictator only served 6 months in order to set things right, but the Senate and Assembly didn't set a time limit on Sulla so it was up to him to leave the post.
Mod
The description of the massacre in the central building and the "death squads" roaming the city is pretty vivid. I agree, Vicki, it must have been horrible. I am reminded of the French Revolution and the bloody phase that went through.
One of the most fascinating things for me in this chapter was the description of the census - how incredibly detailed it was. No computers - heck, not even Arabic numerals to work with. And it sounds like they actually processed and utilized the information in a pretty efficient manner. I'm impressed!
I agree, Dave, and it saddens me that a lot of Roman ways and technology was lost for generations.
Mod
I thought the brief description of the class system and how it related to the military was interesting. War often seems an "easy" way in history to change your social rank, and that it was specifically meant to be that way seemed an intriguing way to structure things. It seemed to reinforce the notion of ambition for citizens of Rome. I thought it was fascinating how government positions became possible once a certain military status was reached. "The higher a Roman climbed, the more fresh vistas emerged to tempt him on further" pg.91
So true, Whitney, and the society raises its people to be strong, and for men, ready for war = advancement.
I just finished this chapter and what a conclusion! I really appreciate this author's narrative style. The scenes he's described are even bloodier than The Last Days of the Incas, but once again, I'm learning loads about a time and place I knew very little about.
Mod
Yes it seems that history is truly "bloody" everywhere. Again it is about power over others.
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Last Days of the Incas (other topics)Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic (other topics)
Week 4 - October 13th - October 19th -> Chapter Four - Return of the Native (82 - 107)
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Vicki Cline will be moderating this discussion.
Welcome,
Vicki and Bryan
TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS, SELECT VIEW ALL
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Table of Contents and Syllabus
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Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD