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MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS > Can your reading be 'used against you'?

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message 1: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments One of this group's members just sent me an article which I thought I'd share with you all. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/S...

It's about how with the advent of ereaders and tracking technologies, this can be used against readers. There's now a moral issue of whether your reading can be'used against you' in a court of law.

Seems to me that this is an example of how technology is moving at a quicker pace than our society can keep up with and make moral/ethical/legal adjustments to.

What follows are excerpts from this disturbing article:

Some privacy watchdogs argue that e-book users should be protected from having their digital reading habits recorded. "There's a societal ideal that what you read is nobody else's business," says Cindy Cohn, legal director for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit group that advocates for consumer rights and privacy. "Right now, there's no way for you to tell Amazon, I want to buy your books, but I don't want you to track what I'm reading."

Amazon declined to comment on how it analyzes and uses the Kindle data it gathers.

EFF has pressed for legislation to prevent digital book retailers from handing over information about individuals' reading habits as evidence to law enforcement agencies without a court's approval. Earlier this year, California instituted the "reader privacy act," which makes it more difficult for law-enforcement groups to gain access to consumers' digital reading records. Under the new law, agencies must get a court order before they can require digital booksellers to turn over information revealing which books their customers have browsed, purchased, read and underlined. The American Civil Liberties Union and EFF, which partnered with Google and other organizations to push for the legislation, are now seeking to enact similar laws in other states.

Bruce Schneier, a cyber-security expert and author, worries that readers may steer clear of digital books on sensitive subjects such as health, sexuality and security—including his own works—out of fear that their reading is being tracked. "There are a gazillion things that we read that we want to read in private," Mr. Schneier says.

There are some 40 million e-readers and 65 million tablets in use in the U.S., according to analysts at Forrester Research. In the first quarter of 2012, e-books generated $282 million in sales, compared with $230 million for adult hardcover books, the Association of American Publishers recently found.

Meanwhile, the shift to digital books has fueled an arms race among digital start-ups seeking to cash in on the massive pool of data collected by e-reading devices and reading apps. New e-reading services, which allow readers to purchase and store books in a digital library and read them on different devices, have some of the most sophisticated reader tracking software. The digital reading platform Copia, which has 50,000 subscribers, collects detailed demographic and reading data—including the age, gender and school affiliation of people who bought particular titles, as well as how many times the books were downloaded, opened and read—and shares its findings with publishers. Copia aggregates the data, so that individual users aren't identifiable, and shares that information with publishers that request it.


message 2: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments So if GR is indirectly now partnered with the CIA then everyone in this group may soon have a special file on them at Langely, Virginia!!


message 3: by Mike (new)

Mike Robbins (MikeRobbins) | 23 comments Two very interesting articles - thank you both.

There is another danger here - that besides grassing us all up to the security services, publishers and retailers will "analyze" us and change their offerings accordingly, to the point where commercially-published books become blander and more alike. The digital world permits more cultural diversity, but also encourages cultural homogeneity.


message 4: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments Jeannie wrote: "Totally agree..books, movies, music, even food, are already there..at least here in the US, and then there is our, "news.""

Yup 21st Century "news" more infotainment than news...little wonder given who runs the media these days.


message 5: by Lara (new)

Lara | 6 comments I think Mike makes a good point that we don't normally think about in relation to privacy issues.


message 6: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 8 comments Wow! To think that our comments in this discussion are being watched is unsettling.


message 7: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Jessica wrote: "Wow! To think that our comments in this discussion are being watched is unsettling."

In a way it's a back-handed compliment though, I think, Jessica.
Shows we are on the right path and rattling the right cages...know what I mean?


message 8: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimliedeka) | 571 comments I agree with Edward, most of what we do and say will get lost in the noise. God help you, however, if you piss off the wrong people. :)


message 9: by Íris (new)

Íris (irissantos) Hopefully those laws do not apply in Angola.
Anyway, as it's been said, there's so much happening and so many people googling conspiracy that unless you truly try to harm or threat the big bosses nobody cares :o

In that way, shouldn't the writers of said books we read be punished as well or even harder than the readers?


message 10: by Luke (new)

Luke Marsden (lukefdmarsden) Not only your reading, but also your search terms, page views and the like could all be used against you, for sure, by a hypothetical malicious third party with a motive. People's library borrowing habits were tracked long before the advent of the internet. Intelligence agencies don't have a long-standing history of interest in these things for nothing, presumably.

The same information is used in beneficial ways as well - I've received some great recs from GR based on my shelves. I doubt that I would have ever found Kabloona, which landed with me a couple of days back, any other way.

It's a trade off. But, if I'm ever on the run from the law in future, I'll be very wary of strangers who profess a similar taste in books to my own :D


message 11: by James, Group Founder (last edited Jan 14, 2015 11:10AM) (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Maybe Orwell got it wrong tho...Or possibly he stopped one step short in that Big Brother's control seemed like the end in his book 1984.

Possibly the next step in this technological wonderland is Little Brother (aka common citizens) are going to be able to monitor everything about Big Brother (intelligence agencies, governments, Military Industrial Complex etc).

I agree with those futurists who predict technology is going to get to the point where Little Brother will be able to monitor Big Brother more than they can monitor us. Imagine a world where there are millions of civilian drones physically observing governments around the world and where every man and his dog has Wikileaks-style blogs whistleblowing on the elite and where Anonymous-style groups are constantly hacking into Big Brother's servers and revealing nefarious documents indicating things like false flag operations aka fake terrorism.

Those who believe in the "theory" that foreign groups/nations are our biggest enemies will tell us this scenario is not good and will damage the so-called free world, but those who like myself believe that our biggest enemies are the elite scumbags at the highest level of our own governments will think otherwise.
Those who love authority and believe "the people's freedoms need to be managed" may call such a world a state of anarchy, but I say long live Little Brother! :)

Soon we may be saying...Big Brother RIP!
That's why they are so scared of us.

p.s. No doubt this particular post of mine contains some key words that Big Brother doesn't like...Or maybe even a section of Big Brother (whether human or otherwise) will study this post/thread in more detail...In which case I extend my middle finger on behalf of Little Brother.

p.p.s. If you hear in tomorrow's news that I'm now living in Guantanamo Bay, you'll know what happened!!


message 12: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Thanks Ed (aka my brother from another mother).
I agree with all you say and think somebody should start preparing Big Brother's gravesite as he's already in the nursing home at least...

Okay, so obviously a lot of my comments in this thread are tongue n cheek, but I do think many sectors of society (especially in conspiracy circles) often fail to realize how powerful the people are due to their sheer numbers. Why else do you think Big Brother is constantly monitoring us all - they wouldn't do that if they didn't think the balance of power can be reversed AT ANY MOMENT...


message 13: by Luke (new)

Luke Marsden (lukefdmarsden) James wrote: "That's why they are so scared of us..."

Hence the use in several countries of any security incident (conveniently amplified by sensationalist media outlets all vying for attention) as an excuse to immediately rush through more surveillance powers. These measures are generally easily avoided by the people they are ostensibly targeted at. The Sicilian mafia, for example, shun technology in many cases and rely widely on paper pizzini for communications.

I'm sure this quote will not be new to most people here, but it's worth reiterating all the same:

"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed." - Adolf Hitler

Seem familiar?


message 14: by Luke (new)

Luke Marsden (lukefdmarsden) Íris wrote: "In that way, shouldn't the writers of said books we read be punished as well or even harder than the readers?"

Once writers start self-censoring for fear of retribution, we are entering the realms of mind-control. Bad times.

Writers are instrumental in standing up to the abuse of power. Perhaps why they have so often been persecuted (and subsequently revered) through history.


message 15: by Luke (new)

Luke Marsden (lukefdmarsden) Agreed that from the most cynical standpoint, social networks are simply honey-traps for the harvesting of personal information, which we willingly hand over. For the sake of the debate, though, if my GR bookshelves fell into the hands of an adversary (which, by making them public, I must assume they already have), I wouldn't feel tremendously compromised.

On an aside, I finally found the quote I was looking for:

"Wars are fought for words. They are man's most deadly weapon" - Arthur Koestler

Following this logic, the poet who writes the words wields more power than the politician who speaks them. Which goes towards explaining why people's reading habits may become the subject of interest, and may be used against them.


message 16: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 3 comments Social Media would be the Stasi's wet dream.

... Why is there a van parked across from my house?

Another day, upon the stair,
I saw a man, who wasn't there,
He wasn't there again today,
I think he's with the CIA.


message 17: by Luke (new)

Luke Marsden (lukefdmarsden) It's not computers that I'd be worried about. The kind of creative analysis required to draw arbitrary conclusions about an individual that could be used against them based on the books they've read is not something that a computer would be good at - a human would far outperform a machine at this kind of thing. At worst (as far as I can conjecture, anyway), computers could use the reading data for spear phishing-type attacks, or for flagging individuals for further analysis/action by a person, maybe based on stats-based psychological profiling or trawling for blacklisted books.

Once a human is involved, though, the uses that can be devised for the data are limited only by the imagination... that is far more worrying, particularly if the information is used as part of a wider, Stasi-esque "know everything" approach. That programmes of this nature are in operation in many places is not far-fetched, it's the reality, as we know thanks to Ed Snowden. So, putting anything online, you are exposing yourself to it potentially being used against you given a change in circumstances.

It's a sorry state of affairs, and contrary to the open founding spirit of the internet, but it's the current reality. It's great that there are organisations such as the EFF, that James mentioned, that are striving to swing the equilibrium back in the right direction.


message 18: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments Martyn V. (aka Baron Sang-Froid) wrote: "Social Media would be the Stasi's wet dream.

... Why is there a van parked across from my house?

Another day, upon the stair,
I saw a man, who wasn't there,
He wasn't there again today,
I think h..."


That's a coincidence...There's a van across from my house, too! Does the van in your neighborhood have dark tinted windows?


message 19: by Ricky (new)

Ricky Sandhu | 5 comments So while we have more privacy laws than any other time in history our lives are less private now.


message 20: by Rivka (new)

Rivka | 18 comments That's right. Just like how we are living in "security and surveillance age" and our lives have never been more insecured.


message 21: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers We must not be naive. Meta information (at least) is retained, and reviewed, if the need arises.

What the greater concern must be is what authority controls the state apparatus. The state restricts the dissemination of information collected by private businesses such as Google et al, but who controls the State?

Pacific Rim countries have been effectively annexed via TPP. They have surrendered sovereignty.

If a right wing Trumpist government were to win or steal power in the US, then all will be in danger.

Are your reading habits here in New Zealand un American?

If you oppose US wars you will of course be tracked.

For Christ's sake, public libraries and bookshops have been tracking readers for decades.

Usually, there is not a problem, why should there be? The watchers are likely amused by your selection of holiday reading. How to Dress Up Like a Real Arab Lady, The Art of Bondage, The Karma Sutra.

But what if (as in Europe now after "Cologne") your Arabic friendly predilection might be considered a security risk?

Jesus came for all of us, boys and girls. It is the corrupt elite stage manage the fatuous "War of Civilisations" that will burn in the Lord's wrath, not innocent Arab children.

The world is changing, fast. Are you ready?

If there is a digitised book, or other digital media that might be shared privately, these can be shared discretely on CD or thumb drives. If there is concern that the media may be signature tracked to point of sale (all CDs, flash ram devices have a UID, just as each printer as its own, each photocopier also, for forensic investigation) then media might be procured from random sources, second hand.

Electronic reading devices must be isolated from the internet.

With the low cost of good quality devices these days this is indeed a viable option. A software or hardware tweak can render your device "underground invisible".

Local proximity sharing via Bluetooth, if you feel secure enough.


message 22: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Hey Paul,
I like how you wrote "for Christ's sake" followed by "Jesus came for us all"!!!!

:)


message 23: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers James Morcan wrote: "Hey Paul,
I like how you wrote "for Christ's sake" followed by "Jesus came for us all"!!!!

:)"

Moved by the Spirit, brother, to lend my voice to those in the wilderness ~


message 24: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments No worries, Paul, I just laughed at the dichotomy.


message 25: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers James Morcan wrote: "No worries, Paul, I just laughed at the dichotomy."

Within the jocular faux-reality format offered, I suppose it must all look humouress to a comedic prophet of tomorrow's dream fashions, like yourself.


message 26: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Pardon?
Please translate that one, mate.


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Even if they keep tracing our reading habits they can only delay an avid reader from stop reading something that they don't want you too. Last Christmas, I took my friend to the book stall and shown her the copy of The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie which is banned in India. Surprisingly, she was very kind and immediately gifted me the book (Obviously, we paid more than the actual cost).

The point is, I had ebook, I could have read that and I presume, no one can stop me from doing that because there are various sources of downloading the books which are banned. Now, I have paperback and I don't think anyone can stop me from reading that. I wanted to read that book for many years, it was just because of stupid sentimental people, the delay happened.


message 28: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers Mayank wrote: "Even if they keep tracing our reading habits they can only delay an avid reader from stop reading something that they don't want you too. "

Profiling is the key issue. When the state or corporations log your reading activity. Then come a day you may be isolated, ostracised. It's a very reasonable fear in an Orwellian society. Big Brother is watching, or is it Uncle Sam?

You are free to read what you like. Just remember though, in our adversarial justice system, anything you do say (or read) can and will be used against you.


message 29: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers James Morcan wrote: "Pardon?
Please translate that one, mate."


James, to be frank, I am struggling to understand what you're trying to communicate.

Is it about faith? About humour?

I've said and shown multiple times that I greatly admire you and your father for your work. Rest easy, brother, and let's limit our discussion to key aspects of your alternative universe that have real world benefit.

I see here in the underground a garden of popular conspiracy. There will be some way to link to all of this into the distribution network I work with, somehow, in some way at some point in time. Seems reasonable. Conspiracy theory as entertainment/education, or activism as manifest democracy. It's all very interesting.


message 30: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments Paul wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "Pardon?
Please translate that one, mate."

James, to be frank, I am struggling to understand what you're trying to communicate.

Is it about faith? About humour?

I've said an..."


Yo Paul - Your oft' expressed great admiration for the Morcan team is appreciated, but it really ain't necessary, mate. And I, too, require a translation of your message #26...but only if you can be bothered. Not a biggie.


message 31: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers Lance Morcan wrote: "require a translation of your message #26"

Within the jocular faux-reality format offered, I suppose it must all look humouress to a comedic prophet of tomorrow's dream fashions, like yourself.

"the jocular faux-reality format offered ...
= the very forum that is project underground where what some may claim is truth is openly discussed as fiction, which might be truth, or not, or fun, though maybe not, or otherwise, just for fun, or profit, or merely for entertainment, and education, even promulgation, or promotion, though perhaps more, or much less, difficult to say --- can you? Should you? Might I, or anyone? Why not? Perhaps best avoided, or grasped ... tomorrow is another day.

comedic prophet of tomorrow's dream fashions ...
= any air-bending facilitator of public dialogue, from a kindy teacher leading his charges into an awareness of the real world through educational fantasy to the supreme producer over any nation's propaganda department, including public relations and advertising professionals, noted and unknown, all can latch a groove on that tune by the bard, "Jokerman".

Some of those who help the Lord above to shape the world in accordance with His plan are secret, unknown, and must remain in the shadows, or is that just a story? Shouldn't matter by now. Stories also serve.

But with a public profile it is more difficult to remain unnoticed. That's not necessarily fatal in this world, much depends on how one conducts oneself, and what one's fate is. Chivalry exists. It's quite alright to dine with the enemy, go to his parties, and thrive, still serving the Lord above, like the story about Jesus.

But of course, everything I write here in the Underground is just for the Underground in the spirit of the Underground.

Though I do have a professional interest -


message 32: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments Paul wrote: "Lance Morcan wrote: "require a translation of your message #26"

Within the jocular faux-reality format offered, I suppose it must all look humouress to a comedic prophet of tomorrow's dream fashio..."


Ah now it all makes sense! Thanks mate.
However...
Just in case I'm still missing the point, could you perhaps summarise it for me in a sentence or two?


message 33: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Paul - I think I now need a translation of your translation!!
I recommend the KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach and not overthinking everything.

Also, remember not everyone shares the same religion or same philosophy, so for one reader it's as pointless regurgitating the name Jesus in every post as citing Allah to another reader or Sai Baba for the next. We all have differing beliefs and what's an indisputable fact to one person is highly debatable to another - so somehow it's about finding middle ground...


message 34: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers James Morcan wrote: "a translation of your translation... KISS"

Big world. Sh!t happens, rarely really a surprise.

James Morcan wrote: "We all have differing beliefs and what's an indisputable fact to one person is highly debatable to another... "

True. And we all bat from our corner. Differences in life experience and perception are unique to all of us.

James Morcan wrote: "about finding middle ground... "

Quite agree, absolutely. The path of the Tao is thus.

Somewhere in the middle there's a tacit acknowledgement that the Universe is very complicated, that humanity is extremely diverse, that we're all free to understand the same dense fast moving massive object bearing down on us --- humour alert! --- in differing ways.

As for God, this Jesus character from popular fiction I sometimes reference to bulwark my own feeble word work --- in my understanding I use the word to describe "the totality of the Universe of time and space and the belief/hope of benign governing intelligent purpose".

So if you are blessed by God you are greatly blessed.

Please note, casual reader, that God and the Church are not the same, no more than spirituality is the same as religion.

My your God go with you.

May God bless us all.


message 35: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers Lance Morcan wrote: "summarise it for me in a sentence or two?"

Difficult, a bit too hard really. Am I tasked like Hercules to clean the Augean Stables?

Perhaps an allegorical approach, in bold? Just for fun :-)

Big world. Yoghurt is made. Sugar may be added. A mechanical implement may be employed.

Many people find this interesting. Some of them purchase yoghurt. Others make it. Others still participate in the yoghurt economy in a multitude of ways.

Some people lead discussion forums on yoghurt. Some write books about it. Some lead groups related to their books about yoghurt.

Other people still are merely interested in sharing their enthusiasm for wholesome life giving yoghurt generally, and are not tied up with brands.

Of those who make, those who sweeten, those who promote and those who consume, who will be ready when the yoghurt hits the fan?



message 36: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments Paul wrote: "Lance Morcan wrote: "summarise it for me in a sentence or two?"

Difficult, a bit too hard really. Am I tasked like Hercules to clean the Augean Stables?

Perhaps an allegorical approach, in bold? ..."


Sometimes I think we may all be guilty of over-thinking and over-analysing things too much...and using two words where maybe one would do.


message 37: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Lance Morcan wrote: "Sometimes I think we may all be guilty of over-thinking and over-analysing things too much...and using two words where maybe one would do. ..."

are you sure you only meant two words in that instance? :)


message 38: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments James Morcan wrote: "Lance Morcan wrote: "Sometimes I think we may all be guilty of over-thinking and over-analysing things too much...and using two words where maybe one would do. ..."

are you sure you only meant two..."


2 or 3 mmmaybe.


message 39: by James, Group Founder (new)

James Morcan | 8004 comments Paul wrote: "Big world. Yoghurt is made. Sugar may be added. A mechanical implement may be employed.

Many people find this interesting. Some of them purchase yoghurt. Others make it. Others still participate in the yoghurt economy in a multitude of ways.

Some people lead discussion forums on yoghurt. Some write books about it. Some lead groups related to their books about yoghurt.

Other people still are merely interested in sharing their enthusiasm for wholesome life giving yoghurt generally, and are not tied up with brands.

Of those who make, those who sweeten, those who promote and those who consume, who will be ready when the yoghurt hits the fan? ..."


Lordy.


message 40: by Erma (new)

Erma Talamante (EITalamante) | 55 comments James Morcan wrote: "So if GR is indirectly now partnered with the CIA then everyone in this group may soon have a special file on them at Langely, Virginia!!"

So my file must be stamped "Bipolar" or "Eclectic"... or maybe even "Erratic". I pity da fool (who has to review my data)!

Naw, I figure I already had a file there. It just happened to get thicker, or something.


message 41: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers James Morcan wrote: "Paul wrote: "Big world. Yoghurt is made. Sugar may be added. A mechanical implement may be employed..."

On an alien planet, that's the way it's done. So says the buzz from SETI Station Waihopai.


message 42: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers Lance Morcan wrote: "Sometimes I think we may all be guilty of over-thinking and over-analysing things too much...and using two words where maybe one would do."

Sounds like me -


message 43: by Grace (new)

Grace (TheMadMangoAvenger) | 9 comments You know, I remember reading a long time ago that while they don't actively track your reading, if you are checking certain books out of the library or buying them from a bookstore, then they put you on a list.

Supposedly this is similar to buying certain OTC medicines in the States. Buy Sudafed, a cold medicine here, and you're going to get on the list of people to watch for meth makers and dealers.

Of course, I'm thinking about all the books I see at different conventions and wondering if those don't apply. The Anarchist Cookbook? Boring book that has over half the stuff wrong (I was a bomb specialist in the military, so I've done most of it.) Yet, buy it from a bookstore or check it out from the library and you're on a list for homegrown terrorists in America.

Do other countries have the same regulations? I would think so, but not sure of the lists.


message 44: by Erma (new)

Erma Talamante (EITalamante) | 55 comments Grace wrote: "Do other countries have the same regulations? I would think so, but not sure of the lists."

I got curious about this question. Finding US book lists was easy - international, alot harder. But this was the most comprehensive list (with reasons) that I found...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...

I don't know if these all will get you on a watchlist, per se, in the country listed, or if there are other punishments. But I was surprised at some of the titles.

(view spoiler)


message 45: by K.P. (new)

K.P. Merriweather (KP_Merriweather) | 43 comments if you went by the books I read you would assume I'm a terrorist. lolz


message 46: by K.P. (new)

K.P. Merriweather (KP_Merriweather) | 43 comments I research a lot of things...


message 47: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments Paul wrote: "Lance Morcan wrote: "Sometimes I think we may all be guilty of over-thinking and over-analysing things too much...and using two words where maybe one would do."

Sounds like me -"


Not just you Paul. We all guilty of that I gotta admit. Keep up the good work!


message 48: by Paul (new)

Paul Sayers Grace wrote: "You know, I remember reading a long time ago that while they don't actively track your reading, if you are checking certain books out of the library or buying them from a bookstore, then they put y..."

Checked out a couple of books from a public library in New Zealand 30 years ago. Dawn of the computer age. Scanned, system went down, kept me waiting for a minute or two. Surveillance camera. Just smiled. Pass.

The Anarchist's Cookbook was passed around hand to hand, on a computer printout. And from within the church (!). Well --- fewer closer to God that a righteous soldier serving with his life ---


message 49: by Lance, Group Founder (new)

Lance Morcan | 2083 comments K.P. wrote: "if you went by the books I read you would assume I'm a terrorist. lolz"

:)


message 50: by Feliks (last edited Jan 23, 2017 10:12AM) (new)

Feliks (Dzerzhinsky) Certainly all our digital habits (reading, food, surfing net, travel plans, or any kind of on-line purchase at all) is all continuously tracked.

E-readers particularly, report usage stats back to Amazon, etc. I didn't think this was 'news' to anyone. What is shocking is that people don't take it with any concern.

This is why this generation of Americans is piece-of-sh*t. Can you imagine anyone in the 1940s or 1960s tolerating this hideous state-of-affairs?


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