Chat thread

[Ashe]

Here's a thread for non-specific topics and talk for the group. Because these are always handy.

Plus, I needed an excuse to tell you guys you're awesome and I'm glad nobody's been stuck up on genre points.

I may or may not have had a bad experience in another group.

ANYWHO, chat away.

[Justin]

Lol, I wouldn't consider your experience in that other group to be bad it's just they are older and tend to like the classic original contemporary type of Westerns.

[Ashe]

And hey, that's fine, I support that. But damn. I'd rather have no comments than be besieged about how my book isn't real. Mostly I just got frustrated because that was clearly a waste of time on my part. It looks like you and the old guys were the only active members too.

[Justin]

Yeah, there are only a few people on there. They moderator hasn't been on since 2008! lol. It's good to comment on there every once in a while but for the most part yeah, they like their old westerns.

[Ashe]

Oooooh weeeeeell. I got you lovely folks and some of the other groups.

[Quentin]

I bet that jerk never sends you the pencils anyway...

[Ashe]

That is likely. I'm still kinda worried I'm gonna get a reputation for having an attitude or something despite behaving myself. I am a high level smartass.

Anywho, anyone got plans for Halloween this year?

[Justin]

I'm probably gonna do what I do every year, dress up slightly enough to scare kids while passing out candy and watching horror movies and shows all day.

[Quentin]

Yeah that's usually what I do Justin, at least watching the horror movies and shows, sometimes reading horror comics too. I get very few trick or treaters for some reason, maybe because of the ones that went missing at my house a few years back...I mean, what trick or treaters?

[Ashe]

Children are a part of a balanced meal.

I'd like to find a party to go to with my girlfriend but we're both more into lower key affairs and that gets hard for holiday parties.

[[deleted user]]

I'll be honest: poking around a few groups here on Goodreads is not easy, especially for me as I'm normally not a forum person (probably why I'm not the best at self-promotion in social media). A lot of groups have their own proclivities and such; not bad people, but not helpful for new people either. And if you don't read or write what they love or do, you're in trouble.

My Halloween will probably be the same as last few: horror movie or game (or Let's Play of a horror game), and avoiding trick or treaters coming to the door as in the neighborhood I live in it could be kids or a dude with a gun set to rob anyone who opens the door. My wife isn't the Halloween type, but she tries for my sake.

[Ashe]

I hate to sound like an asshole (okay, maybe I only hate it a little here), but this was just basically Old Guy Nostalgia.

She not like anything about Halloween in particular?

[Justin]

The day after Halloween last year, the street one up from mine had someone with a gun holding people up in a house.

I awoke to the entire police and swat team on my street, it was crazy!

[[deleted user]]

Yeah, Old Nostalgia Guys can be a pain. I indulge in a little of the "good ol' days", a relative term, from time to time, but time also moves on. You can't let a medium stagnate; new voices need to be heard, fresh ideas and twists on old favorites keep genres alive. But yeah, that happens here.

Ashe, no, nothing in particular she doesn't like, just not into spooky atmosphere or horror or the like. She likes costumes, but more on pets and babies than adults. Hard to explain but not her thing.

Justin, yeah, I see police raids and parole violations a lot here. I happen to live in an area which is approximately 2 hours from New York City, Philadelphia and Newark; we get a lot of people on the lam from those areas or who couldn't hack it in the city. Trouble tends to follow. Not to mention the local weirdos and corruption.

[Ashe]

It's just funny to me cause the Weird west has been around forever. Ghosts? "Indian" curses? C'mon!

Fair enough. Spooky stuff isn't for everyone. I'm grateful as hell that while my girlfriend doesn't like horror, she loves Halloween and the aesthetic. She is amazing.

[[deleted user]]

I've heard that Robert Howard started the genre in print, but I'm sure there have been others before that. A lot of old cowboy legends were campfire ghost tales (as you said) and such things. I mean yeah, there are still fans of Louis L'Amour, Max Brand and others and who doesn't like a good spaghetti western? But I think adding horror and steampunk elements have saved a marginalized genre, then opened the door for adding other bits of sci-fi, fantasy and the like.

[Ashe]

Definitely. And i've been wwondering about pushing fantasy ahead for a while and now i'm actually doing it. I was actually babbling to tthe girlfriend last night about how close tto Weird the spaghetti westerns get.

I have a complicated relationship with steampunk these days after the great gear flood a few years ago.

[Quentin]

Well I saw the comments in that group and I did think it was rude, but at the same time if I can play Devil's Advocate for a minute, I can also see why they may want to keep that group pure western. There's a ton of places we weird western people can go, from the horror groups, to here, to sci-fi,to fantasy, etc. but there are only a few places for straight old school westerns. Like I said, I did think they were rude but I can at least get where they are coming from. I may eventually try my hand at writing a straight western, but really I am Weird Western to the core myself though :D

Btw Ashe, I read that first chapter and I liked it. I do see potential! I am a backer on your kickstarter, I wasn't sure if I showed up in the list yet or not.

[Ashe]

I mean, i'd have been totally cool with a "hey, we'd like to keep things non-weird." I asked as much. Ah well, movin on.

Yeah, man, you're there. I appreciate it. Feel free to send me your thoughts on the chapter too.

[John]

Hey guys, don't let the turkeys get you down. I'm a member of the Western Writers of America, which kind of sets the bar for Old School Westerns, but there are a lot of alternative "weird" Westerns in the mix as well. The genre is a big tent. If someone is slamming your work, Ashe, think of it as a Hard SF guy poo-pooing a sci-fi book with fantasy elements. (The science fiction crowd has some NASTY fights!) Everyone has their tastes. No excuse for being rude, though.

And as far as your book not being a "real" book, well, you have the potential to laugh all the way to the bank.

[Quentin]

John, I think some of those guys may have actually lived through the wild west days, so I can see them being a little protective lol. It was really pretty minor I think, and the boards here at goodreads are still much more civilized than message boards I've seen elsewhere for sure!

[John]

One of my alter egos is as a professional rodeo photographer (If you're interested, go here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/johncha...) I have a lot of friends who are actual working cowboys. Most are no-nonsense, down-to-earth folk (who will give you the shirt off their back). When I talk about "Ghost Marshal" they look at me kind of cockeyed, like I've lost my mind. But when I talk about my nonfiction rodeo books, or true-West histories (like Battle of the Little Bighorn), their eyes light up and I have their full attention. Just goes to show you really need to identify and cater to your audience.

[Quentin]

Nice pics, and a lot of them! Yes I actually know some real life cowboys too, and you are right. Most of them don't seem to be the "Lord of the Rings" types, but love the down to earth western stuff.

[Ashe]

Yeah, like I said, it wasn't that they weren't interested, it was their comments. Know your audience. I also feel like to some degree I'm building a new audience here. Weird Westerns are clearly a thing but how often have we read ones with fantasy races included? Much less with an Orc lead.

I'm gonna have to sit down and go through your landscape photos, John, jeez.

Also, I'm kind of excited for starting work on the next book too. It'll be a nice ghost story. But that's probably not going to start til late next year sometime. I was thinking of spending my time after releasing Demon working on shorts.

[Quentin]

Ashe, is Demon actually completed at this point or is it still a work in progress?

[Ashe]

It's mostly done as far as story. It's still in progress though. Just, at this point, it's filling out certain areas, rewriting chunks to make things consistent, and I need to finish the last chapter. I guess that sounds pretty unfinished but all things considered, I've made remarkable progress this year. No matter what, I'm releasing in March.

It's coming along nicely. I feel like I sound like a salesman just fluffing the facts here, but I'm really proud.

[Quentin]

That's great, I didn't realize you had so much completed already. Good luck with the kickstarter!

[Ashe]

Yeah, man, thanks. I didn't wanna start the kickstarter til I'd gotten the first chapter "done." It still needs a few tweaks but what you read is pretty much how it'll appear in the book.

It's funny about this story cause when I started it in February, it was just from a concept of a gunslinger Orc and I thought I'd just pop out a short and then it just kept going. So if you also read the original rough draft peek on my deviantart too, it's kind of meandering and starts weirdly. I had no freakin idea what I was doing or where I was going.

[[deleted user]]

Yeah, knowing and catering to your audience is key. May sometimes be difficult to find that audience, but they are out there so always keep trying if you don't find them right away. There is an audience for everything.

[Ashe]

If there's an audience for erotica about time-travelers having sex with dinosaurs, I think I can find an audience for a gunslinging, demon-hunting Orc haha.

[Quentin]

The scary part is, there really IS an audience for time travelers having sex with dinosaurs. Talk about a narrow market...at least I hope it's narrow o.o

[Ashe]

There's a big enough market that there are folks selling dozens of these titles, however short, so, I dunno. I'll worry about my market haha.

More on Halloween, I really wish that more places had alternatives to the haunts where you could just go hang out in a spooky atmosphere. That'd be awesome.

[[deleted user]]

I'm worried about finding my market!

Spooky atmosphere hangouts; I like that idea. No need for a haunt or ghost story, just a creepy place to hang out, meet people, get a few drinks if so inclined, maybe themed snacks. A zombie piano player in the corner perhaps.

[Ashe]

Dark fantasy and weird western is your audience.

Yeah, man. Even a park area. I've got a huge idea for an attraction centered around the non-jump scare life but god, it would be so expensive. If I ever get the opportunity, I'm doin it.

[[deleted user]]

Non-jump scares are very under rated in today's market; many modern creators have forgotten the brooding, oppressive lessons of what made horror horrifying.

[Quentin]

Philip wrote: "Non-jump scares are very under rated in today's market; many modern creators have forgotten the brooding, oppressive lessons of what made horror horrifying."

I totally agree Philip. Think about it, once the jump scare fades, its gone and you rarely think about it again. However, if something oppressive and just flat out creepy scares you, that will probably stick with you a while.

[John]

Horror vs. terror. It's the difference between "Alien" and "Aliens."

[Quentin]

John wrote: "Horror vs. terror. It's the difference between "Alien" and "Aliens.""

Exactly! And really, I do enjoy both.

[Ashe]

You're all good people and I like you.

[Justin]

Thanks Ashe, since you've come around you've really given a bit of life into this group. I know when I first joined I could hear crickets but now we got some good discussions going on, I'd say your to thank for that.

[Ashe]

Man, i just really want this group to thrive. And it doesn't hurt that we're each other's audience either haha.

As for the terror/horror discussion, Hammer horror movies. So much good atmosphere.

[Ashe]

John, your landscapes are ridiculous. Jeez those are beautiful.

[John]

Ashe wrote: "John, your landscapes are ridiculous. Jeez those are beautiful."

Thanks, Ashe! Much appreciated.

[Quentin]

Justin wrote: "Thanks Ashe, since you've come around you've really given a bit of life into this group. I know when I first joined I could hear crickets but now we got some good discussions going on, I'd say your..."

I still hear crickets..but now they are GIANT FLESH EATING CRICKETS WHOOOO!

[Ashe]

Quentin wrote: "Justin wrote: "Thanks Ashe, since you've come around you've really given a bit of life into this group. I know when I first joined I could hear crickets but now we got some good discussions going o..."

Hey...that's a good idea. I may have to stuff some giant, flesh-eating crickets into a future story.

John wrote: "Ashe wrote: "John, your landscapes are ridiculous. Jeez those are beautiful."

Thanks, Ashe! Much appreciated."

Seriously, well done. The Zion and Death Valley ones are just gorgeous. Girlfriend agreed wholeheartedly.

[John]

Thanks, Ashe! The day topped out at 114F the day I shot those in Death Valley. Most of the national park shots were for a series of 12 books I wrote/photographed for my children's book publisher. A peachy assignment, for sure.

[Ashe]

I would've exploded in that heat. I'm a giant and a furnace. Oklahoma summers are bad enough.

[[deleted user]]

I could swear there was an MST3K episode about giant flesh eating crickets.

[Ashe]

There probably was.

[[deleted user]]

Yeah. My mind is a strange place full of half-remembered things, like a refrigerator someone forgot to clean out. And MST3K holds a large chunk of shelving.