SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
This topic is about
The Wolf in the Whale
Group Reads Discussions 2019
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"The Wolf in the Whale" First Impressions *No Spoilers*
About 50% in. So far I'm mostly enjoying it except when I'm cringing. (So I guess I'm crin-joying it.)From the start, I've been distracted by some of the stuff in Allison's extensive content warning spoiler. I'll be interested to see what others think about some specifics in the full discussion.
For now, I'll just vaguely say I'm not bothered that any story has those things in it. I'm just not convinced this particular story really needs all of them.
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Agreed, there's a lot of brutality thrown atcha in pretty short order.
I'm 45% in and so far loving it, despite all the hunting descriptions... well, I expected as much from the summary so been prepared.
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I started it and about 10% done. Quite interesting but I'm eager to know how realistic is the situation fore the culture depicted. Does anyone aware about non-fic on the subject?
Oleksandr wrote: "I started it and about 10% done. Quite interesting but I'm eager to know how realistic is the situation fore the culture depicted. Does anyone aware about non-fic on the subject?"I've heard there should be literature references in the afterword. Is this the case? I listened to the audiobook (which by the way was so much better narrated than I feared) which had no afterword.
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For those using Audible, there is a PDF that contains a map, a glossary, and a note about historical inspirations and sources. The Thule/Inuit material mostly comes from anthropologists who reported stories told to them by Inuit elders.
Chris wrote: "For those using Audible, there is a PDF that contains a map, a glossary, and a note about historical inspirations and sources. The Thule/Inuit material mostly comes from anthropologists who reporte..."Great! Thanks a lot, Chris, I must have a look on my PC (on the app on the smartphone there is only the audiofile)
Since you've listened to the audio... can you tell me how the name Brandr is pronounced??
Anat wrote: "Since you've listened to the audio... can you tell me how the name Brandr is pronounced??"*haha* this. The way my 'read aloud' kept pronouncing it amused me throughout. "Brand-errrr". Gave a very jovial air about him.
Anat wrote: "Since you've listened to the audio... can you tell me how the name Brandr is pronounced??"A bit like Jemppu wrote, it is a swallowed "e" and a pronounced, rolling "r" at the end (and I hope those expressions exist in English, otherwise I make no sense ...)
Dang, my machine might've gotten it right. Deeply "swallowed" is exactly how it sounds the end, with a strong "rrr", dropping at the end vaguely... and it's adorkable - like it's not quite sure itself how to pronounce it <:D
I started listening to this yesterday on my way to a remote work site. I found myself completely sucked into the story from the beginning due to the combination of good writing and an excellent audiobook narrator. I love that it’s a setting we don’t see a lot of in mainstream fantasy. I’ll have to look for the folklore references in a hardcopy at some point.
I'm about 1/3 through and I really enjoy being in the mindset of people, who assume that anything happens due to gods'/spirits' will. It is very neatly done
"it is a swallowed "e" and a pronounced, rolling "r" at the end "Apologies for my ignorance, but what's a swallowed "r"?
This is one of those books where the title, the cover art and the setting are enough to get me to buy this to read. Very much looking forward to this.
Rosie wrote: ""it is a swallowed "e" and a pronounced, rolling "r" at the end "Apologies for my ignorance, but what's a swallowed "r"?"
^^' I haven't got the slightest idea how this is called correctly in English. By 'swallowed' e I mean that it is not really spoken, only hinted at.
Rosie wrote: "This is one of those books where the title, the cover art and the setting are enough to get me to buy this to read. Very much looking forward to this."I've been waiting for someone to comment on that title. Curious what all they read into it.
(In all it's tongue-in-cheekiness my mind has started to twist the title in my head to "the bitch in the cow" *ehehe...* While also playing around thoughts on 'the prey' and 'the hunter').
Gabi wrote: "Rosie wrote: ""it is a swallowed "e" and a pronounced, rolling "r" at the end "Apologies for my ignorance, but what's a swallowed "r"?"
^^' I haven't got the slightest idea how this is called correctly in English. By 'swallowed' e I mean that it is not really spoken, only hinted at.
"
We have silent letters so maybe it's equivalent to that.
Without knowing any context of the book, I would have a hard time seeing a title called "the bitch in the cow" as something that wasn't anything but derogatory personally, Wolves and Whales don't interact in a direct food chain so would expect a very different kind of relationship. I'm only being literal as haven't had a chance to start the book yet.
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Allison, Fairy Mod-mother
(last edited Sep 06, 2019 05:14AM)
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Apologies for my ignorance, but what's a swallowed "r"?"
^^' I haven't got the slightest idea how this..."
In English, our equivalent is the R sound that gets dropped in most US and British accents. Drawe*r*, daughte*r*, wate*r*.
Rosie wrote: "Without knowing any context of the book, I would have a hard time seeing a title called "the bitch in the cow" as something that wasn't anything but derogatory personally, Wolves and Whales don't i..."Yeah ^^ Like I said, tongue in cheek. Indeed my mind sneering (playfully) at the derogatory applications of the words.
Though, if I was being literal: bitches and cows are perfectly applicable denotations to their specific species. In fact, most of the 'wolf' cast here are bitches (dogs, really, to be precise).
And another note on the prey/hunter thought: some of the whales are portrayed as the fierce hunters they are, too.
Allison wrote: "Rosie wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Rosie wrote: ""it is a swallowed "e" and a pronounced, rolling "r" at the end "Apologies for my ignorance, but what's a swallowed "r"?"
In English, our equivalent is the R sound that gets dropped in most US and British accents. Drawe*r*, daughte*r*, wate*r*.
Ah that makes sense, thank you.
Jemppu wrote: Yeah ^^ Like I said, tongue in cheek. Indeed my mind sneering (playfully) at the derogatory applications of the words.Though, if I was being literal: bitches and cows are perfectly applicable denotations to their specific species. In fact, most of the 'wolf' cast here are bitches (dogs, really, to be precise).
And another note on the prey/hunter thought: some of the whales are portrayed as the fierce hunters they are, too."
Like I said, I was speaking from the perspective of just seeing the title and not having started the book yet for context.
I'm afraid I don't really understand your reference to a derogatory title version being playful. I may have misunderstood your point. It's just a really off putting word to use, with a long unfortunate history of misogyny, precisely because they are the correct terms for animals and the use of it referring to women as less than human.
Maybe once I've read the book I will understand what you're saying. I just like the names of the animals being used, with their male or femaleness not being part the title.
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Thank you, Allison. I would have hard time explaining myself so eloquently.My comment wasn't to have any point at all. Just my mind playing tricks, amusing itself as it does.
Also, it is somewhat musing too on the fact that these words would be so strong at all. If going to the nitty-gritty, I wouldn't necessarily consider other animals 'less than' human species. Which makes the precise, generally held derogatory status of these words so ridiculous (and antiqued?) in the first place: accepting them as such regardless of context (or using them with the intent to insult) is like admitting that a) being called a female is insulting (perhaps to some it is) and/or b) being called an animal is (perhaps to some it is).
But that's besides the point: it's the intent, that matters. And my mind has no intent, but to keep itself occupied while working on a piece based on the brilliant book.
I understand there seems to be different context that will be revealed once I can start reading, just without that it was rather unexpected. It's still very common language used in a negative way, with the intent to be negative, which was why I was rather surprised to see it. I think the intent of the person using the language is clearly important in that context, as while the person it's being directed to might not be insulted, the intent behind it can be quite clearly meant as such.
I look forward to understanding more context in this case.
Allison wrote: "I think Jemppu is saying that she is having fun thinking of how strong those words in the title are, and how if they were to become gendered, they would hint at another focus of the book which this..."thanks for clarifying. was somewhat puzzled.
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:-) I think the points you made make perfect sense and were well stated, so happy to help both sides reach understanding!
Without spoiling, genders aside, I think the title hints at how something seemingly sweet and benign can have something wild and ferocious inside it. You shouldn’t judhe a book by its cover, etc.
I found a couple of things to supplement the book's descriptions of the different cultures.The author's website has some nice pics of Inuit and Scandinavian life in the Photos & Places section:
www.jordannamaxbrodsky.com/photos---p...
An old Canadian documentary shows two Inuit building an igloo:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3pd-wxNEKQ
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Dawn wrote: "Without spoiling, genders aside, I think the title hints at how something seemingly sweet and benign can have something wild and ferocious inside it. You shouldn’t judhe a book by its cover, etc."Oh absolutely I'm sure there's a lot to it I don't know yet. Originally I just meant that the title on it's own piqued my interest anyway. Sounds like I'll find very interesting.
Chris wrote: "I found a couple of things to supplement the book's descriptions of the different cultures.The author's website has some nice pics of Inuit and Scandinavian life in the Photos & Places section:
w..."
Thanks for the resources, look really interesting.
Dawn wrote: "Without spoiling, genders aside, I think the title hints at how something seemingly sweet and benign can have something wild and ferocious inside it. You shouldn’t judhe a book by its cover, etc."A whale kills much more than a wolf I guess, for wolfs don't usually attack people, avoiding them (wolfs are extremely cautious, much more than most dogs), while whales can kill, esp. if they are hunted
It’s meant poetically and like I said, can’t spoil :)
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Since I’m on my phone and on holidays I can’t read anything under spoilertags so I probably won’t be able to join :(
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Allison, Fairy Mod-mother
(last edited Sep 06, 2019 11:49AM)
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When I first saw the title it reminded me of a book I read, maybe 10 years ago called "Women Who Run With the Wolves". I bought it recently to reread as while I don't remember everything about it, I remember how moving and significant it was for me at the time. I think there's much more I would understand about it now too so will be interesting to revisit. Not to sidetrack too much.
In her sources in the Afterword the author mentions Angry Inuk documentary which is quite interesting as a debate point in hunting seals.
Oh interesting. I like further reading/viewing recs from the book.
Finally half way through. I thought the first 40% was really slow and was tempted to nf.
The beginning initially made me hesitate on finishing. I did skip to have a quick look at the end to see how it wound up which then made me want to find out how it reaches the end point. I didn't find it slow so much, but content spoilers for my reasons.
Finally started this, and am very intrigued by the setting, but am finding the writing itself to be falling into a trap of being a bit too solemn and formal, if that makes sense?
Ooh, truly intrigued to hear of your take on this.I think you might be right: there could have been certain formal solemnity to it - perhaps due to evoking legendary, folklorish roots so ardently.
I can kind of see where you're coming from, now that I think about it, although I felt that it worked for the setting. I do think there are some areas where it works better than others, though.
I can definitely see the formality and seriousness in it for quite a few chapters.
Please leave all discussion of specifics such as character growth, plot progression, and your conclusions about the book for the full discussion thread, open on the 7th.
A few content warnings for those who want them: (view spoiler)[ rape, domestic violence, graphic slaughter of humans (including children) and animals, wounded animals, body horror, transphobia / queer antagonism, homophobia, slavery, misogyny, loss of a loved one. (hide spoiler)]