Question #2: Role reversal

[Allison]

Let's talk about the book's role reversal, because I think this is a really interesting aspect in the novel. There is a lot of talk, from the character of working mother Ashley, of "maternal instinct", and at the same time there is some denial (or, is it a lack of paternal intuitiveness? or just misinterpretation) on the part of stay-at-home dad Pete. How did you feel about all of this?

[Kate]

Allison wrote: "Let's talk about the book's role reversal, because I think this is a really interesting aspect in the novel. There is a lot of talk, from the character of working mother Ashley, of "maternal insti..."

Like was mentioned in the other thread it all seemed at bit caricatureish to me. Like the parents were assigned roles instead of it being a natural part of their characters. It also just seemed completely against what would make the most sense to happen. If anything I would have thought that Pete would be the first to notice something was wrong since he is the parent who stays at home. Pete's statement managing to convince himself nothing was wrong while trying to assure Ashley that nothing was wrong seemed strange to me; especially considering the knowledge he had about Ashley's father.

There's a lot of emphasis on the mother/son bond here. It's almost like no one can truly know Nate the way that his mother does. I got the impression that Ashley would be a bit of a helicopter parent were she the one who stayed at home. She's extremely involved to make up for when she's away and perhaps that explains her stance in the book as opposed to Pete's. I also felt that the relationship between Ashley and Nate existed to the expense of Pete's relationship with Nate and both parents' relationship with Grace. I felt really bad for poor Grace!

[Darrell]

Kate very eloquently wrote exactly what I think: the characters seem fairly flat and, adding a male perspective, I found what made the book so flat is the fact that the author was trying to force stereotypes about "maternal instinct" vs. the father in denial. If she could just admit that not all mothers have that maternal instinct (and that's OK), then I think the story would flow better and it would be more realistic. If the parents' flaws were more realistic too, and less simplistic, I think that would add some more depth and make the tension between them more believable and complex.

[Susan]

Kate wrote: "Allison wrote: "Let's talk about the book's role reversal, because I think this is a really interesting aspect in the novel. There is a lot of talk, from the character of working mother Ashley, of..."

I agree that the role reversal in the novel was problematic. I think having two working parents would have worked better. But I do think Ashley's behavior of trying "to make up for when she's away" is very typical of working mothers today. There can be a constant feeling that you're not giving 100% to either your job or parenting.

I think Grace was relegated to the background, but again I think this is typical of a child being sick. Parents naturally tend to the sick one and the others may be or feel neglected. It's an unfortunate fall out of a serious illness.

[Susan]

Darrell wrote: "Kate very eloquently wrote exactly what I think: the characters seem fairly flat and, adding a male perspective, I found what made the book so flat is the fact that the author was trying to force s..."
I think it would be very interesting, Darrell, to know what the statistics are for marriages surviving this kind of stress. While I do think some of this story is simplistic, I believe it is possible that this sort of ordeal could pit a couple against one another. And I found some of the dialogue from Ashley's and Pete's arguments to be quite believable.

The question of maternal instinct is really tricky. While Ashley may prefer to work instead of being a stay-at-home mom, I think it's still legitimate that she can know in her heart that something is terribly wrong with Nate. It might be easier if we called it parental instinct.

[Maureen]

The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usually react when they're hit over the head with a plank. That said, there were scenes in the book that were incredibly moving which, not having the book, I can't refer to at the moment.

Clark's talk on Youtube was illuminating though and changed my perspective considerably. She's personable and funny and practical. I think she would have benefited from an editor who could have suggested a few changes. It was complicated enough to write a book from two different perspectives (in the movies, it's the child actor who steals all the scenes) plus throw in the dynamics of a successful professional mother/stay-at-home dad. What Clark knows in her bones is the experience of growing up with a sibling who had mental illness and I think that's possibly the book that still needs writing.

[Susan]

Maureen wrote: "The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usually react when th..."

I really like what you said about Heather Clark. I was at the event you watched on YouTube, and she is personable, funny and practical. I would add genuine. You can't help but admire her for being a working mom with three kids who still has time to write novels. I see some of her in Ashley's character.

I also agree there are several scenes which are incredibly moving, some as simple as Ashley lying beside Nate in his bed. "I stayed there, just like a mother of a sleeping newborn who is nestled into her. Except my baby was nine and broken, like a wounded little bird." I think every mother can relate to holding an older child and thinking about the baby who has grown so fast, not wanting to let go. And I find the image of the wounded bird heartbreaking.

Just yesterday, I read a story in The Toronto Star about a family whose 12-year-old son committed suicide as a result of mental illness which took a long time to diagnose (http://tinyurl.com/koz7tvp), an all-too-common problem. The episodes of gum-stealing and desk-dancing were red flags, but I think things like this often get ignored or blamed on things like ADHD.

Finally, your idea of a book from Clark's point-of-view as a sibling is brilliant!

[Emily]

I have had some time to think about my (originally negative) reaction to Ashley and Pete's way of dealing with Nate's illness, and I have arrived at the conclusion that I do not think their reactions were unrealistic. Actually, I think the reason that I reacted so strongly to their behavior was that their reactions - denial, over-protection, hysteria, stigma-laden language - are all too real for many families of those suffering from mental illness at any stage in life and it is shocking and frustrating to acknowledge that reality. Not all parents have parental intuition. Not all parents are equipped emotionally or psychologically for events like the ones that take place in this novel - I would say that most aren't. While I would like to believe that I would react better than Ashley and Pete did if I were in their shoes, at least externally, the novel is actually trying to show an honest, internal portrayal of two individuals who are fearful and who have experienced an entire loss of control over their son and his daily realities.

As a sidenote, I'm not sure that I would call their parental arrangement a role reversal - I myself grew up with a stay-at-home dad and a working mom, and I would never assume that the stay-at-home parent was necessarily the (more) intuitive one. In this case, I think both parents were incredibly, but humanly, flawed.

[Emily]

Susan wrote: "Maureen wrote: "The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usual..."

I would love to read Grace's perspective, five or ten years later!

[Emily]

Maureen wrote: "The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usually react when th..."

I couldn't agree more, Maureen - I think Clark has more truth to tell. It's only a matter of if she chooses to share it with the world (fictionalized or not).

[Susan]

Emily wrote: "I have had some time to think about my (originally negative) reaction to Ashley and Pete's way of dealing with Nate's illness, and I have arrived at the conclusion that I do not think their reactio..."

I agree with what you said, Emily, about all the reactions that are possible when dealing with mental illness, or any other big problem for that matter, such as drug use. Ashley and Pete are financially well-off, well educated, and had quick access to medical care. I can only imagine how hard this situation would be for those who don't have these advantages.

[Allison]

I think that, as a parent of a child with special needs, it is perhaps difficult to come to terms with the fact that there might be a clinical reason your child is acting a certain way. One might suspect for a long time, as Ashley did, that your child is different but, like Pete, one might just write it off as the child being a little more sensitive to things or simply exhibiting boy behaviour. I am guilty of both ways of thinking, speaking on a personal level here, as I have an exceptional son of my own who did not have a diagnosis until he was 7 years old and in grade 2. It took a very kind and experienced teacher to give me the nudge I needed to have my son assessed so that we, and others, could have the knowledge we all needed to ensure that he would be understood and so best helped in life. As far as parenting style, I am certain that I was often perceived as lenient or conciliatory by my neighbours and family members. I'm sure they all thought I was not doing my son any favours by adopting such a gentle, highly-attentive approach to parenting. Now, of course, I feel totally vindicated! :) I also felt that no one really could know him like I did (I still feel this way!) and I was fiercely protective of him. I was fortunate to be a stay-at-home mom for 7 years, but have experienced the other side of things as well - as a working mother during the school-aged years.

On the whole, I felt that both Ashley and Pete were simply doing what most parents strive to do by their children - that which they feel is best and right. Obviously, this will differ among parents, and between parent and child, and we might not always agree with everyone's style, but I think it's safe to say that that underlying principle of parenthood is pretty universal.

The question of Grace being overshadowed in the attention department is also very, very real. Being the sibling of a child with special needs carries its own immense burden and siblings definitely need support too.

[Emily]

Allison wrote: "I think that, as a parent of a child with special needs, it is perhaps difficult to come to terms with the fact that there might be a clinical reason your child is acting a certain way. One might s..."

I wish that Goodreads had a 'like' button!

[Kate]

Seconded on that! It's really hard for any of us to say what we'd do or say or how we'd react given a situation like this. I know I tend to try to over rationalize things so I'm probably heavily projecting here. Yet another wonderful thing about book club! :)

I do really, really, think these kind of stories are important and I really hope that we get to see more. Even though I didn't fall in love with the book, I'm very happy it exists.

[Susan]

Theresa wrote: "I agree with Kate that Pete should have realized that there was something wrong with Nate. I think that it was too difficult for Pete to accept the truth about Nate because of the stigma attached ..."
Good point, Theresa. I don't think we've really spoken about the stigma of mental illness yet. Or about the fact that most people aren't aware that really young children can suffer from serious mental illness.

[Kate]

Theresa wrote: "I agree with Kate that Pete should have realized that there was something wrong with Nate. I think that it was too difficult for Pete to accept the truth about Nate because of the stigma attached ..."

That probably was a big part of it, especially considering a certain plot point that I won't bring up for anyone who still is reading. There's stigma and then having an idea of someone else's mental illness. No one's mental illness is the same. The diagnosis may be the same but how it presents is totally different, as is how it is managed.

[Amalia]

I would have loved to have read a chapter or two in Pete's voice to gain more insight into his character. He's probably more complex of a character than we realize, but hard to tell given our limited exposure to his thoughts. I also thought that the stigma associated with mental illness may have played a role in why he was so against admitting something was wrong with their son. I found it interesting that he didn't catch on especially knowing that Ashley's dad was bipolar. I think it may have been a combination of denial (if I don't believe it, if I don't say it out loud then it's not true that my child has something serious) and the belief that it can't be mental illness because Nate is just a child. On page 195 Pete says, "Mental illness is for adults, isn't it?" - I found this to be a very powerful line about mental illness in this book.

[Maureen]

Maureen wrote: "The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usually react when th..."

I read that article as well, Susan, and it's heartbreaking that children so often don't get the care they need for mental illness. A friend was telling me yesterday that her daughter, who has struggled for years with all sorts of behavioural challenges, finally was diagnosed with bipolar 2--and she's in her twenties! Difficult for the whole family.

[Maureen]

Susan wrote: "Maureen wrote: "The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usual..."

Um, I think I responded to myself in that last comment! Note to self: click on 'reply' at the bottom of the post.

[Maureen]

Emily wrote: "I wish that Goodreads had a 'like' button! ..."

Allison wrote: "I think that, as a parent of a child with special needs, it is perhaps difficult to come to terms with the fact that there might be a clinical reason your child is acting a certain way. One might s..."

I'm with Emily here, and like what you wrote very much.

[[deleted user]]

Amalia wrote: "I would have loved to have read a chapter or two in Pete's voice to gain more insight into his character. He's probably more complex of a character than we realize, but hard to tell given our limit..."

All good points, Amalia! We can only guess as to Pete's thought process, and I definitely got the impression that he was both hoping Nate's behavioural issues were nothing to worry about (i.e., all typical boy/youngster behaviour, and that the bullying was also part of the norm of childhood and somehow character-building). As he was the full-time care-giver, I wondered if he was having trouble looking at things objectively. Couldn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. Whereas Ashley, more distanced from the daily details of raising children, was able to see that something was definitely not quite right. I think maybe someone already raised this possibility earlier or in the other discussion thread.

[Susan]

Maureen wrote: "Maureen wrote: "The Ashley and Pete team didn't work for me from the get-go. They lost credibility after ignoring Nate's gum-stealing and dancing on the desk episodes. Even people in denial usual..."
Your comment brings to mind Margaret Trudeau, who was not diagnosed with bipolar disorder until much later in life, after the death of her son. Her memoir, Changing My Mind, is an insightful account of living with mental illness and finding a way to recovery. We're all familiar with the damage her late diagnosis caused.