The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
This topic is about
The Portrait of a Lady
Henry James Collection
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The Portrait of a Lady - Chapters 1-7
I don't know if I'll have time to take part in this read, but I just wanted to say "Good luck!!" to Jeremy and well done for stepping into the breach. It's nerve-wracking leading your first GR discussion, but I've found it to be very rewarding and I'm sure you will too!
Great analysis Jeremy. Thanks.Invalidism was indeed a Victorian preoccupation. Here is an extract from a book about it:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rv...
And further comment:
http://brontehoroine.wordpress.com/20...
Yes, thanks for taking on this task, Jeremy (and for your astute dissection of your readers!)While I'm still only on Chapter one, ahem, I'm already wondering about the significance of the title - Portrait of a Lady as opposed to Portrait of a Woman: "Lady" being loaded with overtones of women's place in society, gentility and the English aristocracy. So I'm already looking for hints that the novel is at least partly about society's expectations of women.
Yes, 'In the 19th and early 20th centuries, lady and woman still had connotations of social class. A NY Times article dated 1887 tells how a “gentleman” knocked down a cabman because he’d insulted the man’s wife by referring to her as a “woman.” In many novels, servants are careful to distinguish between “ladies and gentlemen,” and “persons” of lower rank. '
Terrific opening post, Jeremy! Thanks for taking this on. I'll start reading this week. I'm so excited about this discussion. Your summaries and queries already have me spinning with anticipation. :-)
Madge wrote: "Great analysis Jeremy. Thanks.Invalidism was indeed a Victorian preoccupation. Here is an extract from a book about it:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rv......"
I liked the short article on Wordpress and I think the author was insightful to see invalidism as a choice and form of resistance for some upper and middle class women. I first noticed the frequent occurrence of invalids a few years ago during a Victorian Lit class. What initially caught my attention was all the fainting spells women were having. An article on Victorian Web suggested it had something to do with poor diet and overdrawn corsets. That shed a little light on the problem, but when I read Hard Times I had the same thoughts that Bronteheroine had - invalidism was a choice the privileged classes could make whereas the poor and working class women worked as hard as the men. Of course in our novel we're dealing with very active, energetic, and bold women and it's the Touchett men who are the invalids. I wonder how James will continue to develop this contrast? I'd have to check, so please don't quote me, but I think Dostoyevsky wrote The Idiot, another book with sick men, a few years before James wrote The Portrait of a Lady. Related to invalidism is how often tuberculosis shows up in 19th century novels.
Jeremy, your opening post is inspiring. I've been having trouble getting through Chapter 1, but suddenly I feel much more hopeful. I have a sort of love-hate relationship with James. I read The Ambassadors in college and hated it. I remember discussing it in a precept (ten students and the professor). The students were all telling the professor how much we hated it and why, and he was telling us how ignorant we were, and that we were just too young and naive to appreciate the subtleties of this wonderful book. I've tried several times since then to reread the Ambassadors, and as an adult I can tell that there is much there that is insightful, but I still can't seem to get very far reading it. In fact, I keep a copy on my bedside table for those nights when I am too wound up to get to sleep. I pick up the Ambassadors, and within a few pages I'm out like a light. I have attempted several of Henry James' books, but rarely made it through. I think Washington Square may be the only other one of his books I actually finished. Yet I keep trying.
A couple of years ago I read The Master by Colm Tóibín, which is about Henry James. Henry James had a house in England, and seems to have thought a lot about the differences between Americans and Europeans. I think Mr. Touchett's point about not becoming "too English" may have been a reflection of James' own feelings, though he may perhaps have wanted to become English.
Any way, thanks Jeremy, for taking this on, and for renewing my enthusiasm about tackling this book.
One in four people suffered with TB in 19thC England so it isn't surprising that novels reflected this. 'Victims of tuberculosis could live a very long time. It was a wasting disease (thus the 19th century term consumption), its sufferers not dying within days or weeks, but living with attacks and remissions that could last for years or decades. It allowed those infected to get married, have children, and pass the disease on to them. Families, therefore, could suffer from the infection for 2 or even 3 generations, passing it from parent/grandparent to children. In fact, for much of the century, the physicians thought the disease was hereditary, not contagious. They believed that families had a predisposition to the illness.'
Casceil wrote: "A couple of years ago I read The Master by Colm Tóibín, which is about Henry James. "I was assigned The Master for a class. Unfortunately, my midterm assignment was connected to the book, so I read the parts that were relevant to my paper and skimmed the rest. Here is my takeaway from Toibin's novel (as I remember it from a few years ago) - Henry James lived in the shadow of his father and brother. Henry was conflicted about his sexuality. He alternately, or perhaps simultaneously, envied and disliked Oscar Wilde. The specific purpose I read the book for was to examine how a minor character is portrayed by Toibin versus how biographers sketch the person. I chose Henry's cousin Minnie Temple. This is all relevant to our discussion because most critics think Isabel Archer is based on Minny Temple. The problem for both the historian and the critic is that Minny's life is shrouded in mystery. I'm not going to say too much here though for fear of inadvertently posting spoilers.
As to your comments about the professor telling you that your class was too ignorant to appreciate James, I'm glad I never had an experience like that. I had the opposite occur - a professor told our class we'd be wasting our time trying to read Finnegan's Wake because it wasn't worth it. Maybe professors today are concerned enough with end of course evaluations to not openly insult their students.
Madge, one in four?! Those are staggering numbers. As you said, it's not surprising then that TB would come up often in the fiction of the time.
Jeremy wrote: "...Maybe professors today are concerned enough with end of course evaluations to not openly insult their students...."I'm only guessing at Casceil's situation, but in interactions between sensitive, exceptionally intelligent scholars and demanding, tenured, possibly well-published professors, it is not always easy to distinguish between insult and challenge. Professors such as Casceil describes sometimes "get away with murder" -- usually, but not always, in exchange for what they are able to deliver.
My own feelings about James are that he is an acquired taste -- and rather like first exposure to an unusual new food, one sometimes wonders if one wants to make the effort. I like The Portrait of a Lady, although its message haunts me and I remain uncertain of what James is saying to his reader -- one of the reasons I look forward to this discussion. The Wings of the Dove almost drove me crazy, but is probably the book that so far has most driven me to come to terms with James. (Madge has some wonderful quotation about the Queen's reaction to James, which she will probably share at some point -- I won't preempt, but it cuts to the core of reading James for many of us.) It will be interesting to peruse PoaL again with WotD behind me -- it wasn't last time. Washington Square and The Bostonians I simply "like" less that PoaL, although they are sometimes considered the easiest of his novels. Among his short stories, of which I have probably read only two, the better known "Turn of the Screw" and "The Asperen Papers", it has taken me at least three reads to come to quasi-terms with them. I have not tackled either The Golden Bowl or The Ambassadors , considered along with WotD as his three mature masterpieces. Copies do sit tbr on my bookshelf and ebook. If I can ever figure out the time demands, I'd probably try to fit in Roderick Hudson and/or The American, along with some of his works of criticism before tackling those big two. A couple of others still crowd my bookcase, hardly touched, like Daisy Miller and What Maisie Knew. His travel journals, with their little sketches, delight when pulled for an hour or two of indulgence. Although I find HJ difficult, difficult, I am saddened that my educational experiences really never taught how to read material such as his. It is so rich, but one can be left wondering what the "it" is. Online discussions and a friend or two have helped the most.
I believe Chris, one of our moderators (emeritus?) here, did an extended foray among the works of HJ. Perhaps, hopefully, his schedule will permit him to stop by.
Looking forward to the discussion, although uncertain how much I'll participate versus lurk. Thanks for taking this on, Jeremy!
Jeremy wrote: "The narrative sections are rich and dense, which is why I think I gave up on the novel the first time. I don't know about everyone else, but I feel like I have to read this book slowly. "I agree with this. Actually, I also downloaded an audiobook copy from my library, and am finding that listening to it is considerably more pleasant than reading it. Little touches that I had gotten lost in the reading of it stand out when listening to it.
It's much slower, or course, than reading on paper, but for me, more enjoyable.
I was particularly interested in how long we go into chapter 1 before we get any names for the characters. We get "The old gentleman at the tea-table," "a remarkably well-made man of five-and-thirty," and "a person of quite a different pattern." Then they start conversing, but none of them use names, it's all "the son," "the old man," "the younger man," and so on.
I don't know how others thought about this, but I found it kept me at a distance from the conversants, as they continued to be strangers I was eavesdropping on rather than a conversation among people I was getting acquainted with.
I can't think offhand of any other novel where we get so deep into an opening conversation without anybody using anybody else's name.
Everyman wrote: "I was particularly interested in how long we go into chapter 1 before we get any names for the characters... "Yes, it's quite odd and, as you say, distancing. I was also struck by the fact that, for a book of this title, the opening chapter contains no ladies, despite its domestic setting. They are discussed, of course, but only in terms of their relationships (or possible relationships) with men.
There is a lot of emphasis on the importance of a woman being "interesting" but I am unclear as to what the speakers mean by that. Mrs Touchett seems to me to be an interesting woman, but her estranged husband would probably consider her interest to be of the wrong sort, since it does not make her a good wife.
I am interested in these early chapters by the differences between America and England. Early on, James contends that Mr. Touchett had "an American physiognomy" which he had both brought with him to England thirty years before but "kept it in the best order," whereas Lord Warburton had "a face as English as that of the old gentleman." Is there (was there in 1881) really a difference between English and American physiognomies? What do readers understand these differences in appearance (not in dress, but in actual facial features) to be?
Later, when we get to America, we are almost entirely in a city environment, in a dark and rather drab house in Albany and with mention of the Ludlows and their house in New York (on 53rd street, which is in the center of Manhattan), whereas in England we are in this lovely country house, light and airy, with its patio and lawns stretching down to the Thames.
The distinction between America and England could hardly, at this point in the novel, be more stark.
Everyman wrote: "The distinction between America and England could hardly, at this point in the novel, be more stark...."Are you asking, is James as guilty of caricature as Dickens? (Albeit, with rather different creation and use/exploration of that literary type.)[g]
Or is it to do with the then popular pseudo-science of phrenology whereby the shape of your skull supposedly told something about the personality. Perhaps James thought he observed a difference in personality between the English and Americans? Racial stereoyping was common in literature at this time and was tied up with both phrenology and eugenics.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phreno...
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugeni...
Additionally, James' elder brother William taught psychology at Harvard and is likely to have influenced Henry in these popular ideas.
I had been wondering at what time this novel was placed. That gets answered for us when are told, if I recall correctly (for some reason I can't find the passage right now) that she was quite a young girl at the end of the Civil War. If she is now about 18 (are we ever told her exact age?) that would mean, if she was say 3 in 1865, that this is 1880, which is about right -- he published the book in 1881, so it would be written as a contemporary work. Somehow when I started reading it I was placing it later than that.
I wasn't consciously aware of "placing" it in any particular time, but I must have been seeing it as later, because I was really surprised when I got to the comment about Isabel being very young during the Civil War.
The terrible new GR format does not allow editing, deleting or flagging. This is the serious omissions for me because using a tablet with a small keyboard means I make a lot of typos. Also to always come in at the beginning of a thread and having to scroll through pages to see the latest comment on a thread like Croissants takes a long time and is very tedious. It is obvious that the developers of this program do not use Goodreads and do not know how the discussions work. Also not being able to flag means that flamers can get onto a thread and post anything they like. Perhaps if I start posting something nasty about Amazon they will change it! Sorry to post this here but I do not know how to navigate to a section other than the two groups I generally use, which are now the only ones showing for me.
Madge wrote: "The terrible new GR format does not allow editing, deleting or flagging. This is the serious omissions for me because using a tablet with a small keyboard means I make a lot of typos..."Oh dear, that sounds really difficult. I can still edit and delete my comments on my laptop so I wonder if you're on the version of Goodreads for mobiles? I just had a look at the mobile version on a new tab on my screen (there's a link at the bottom of the page to switch to it) and it looks very skimpy :(
But if that is the problem, I don't know how you get out of it, as there doesn't appear to be a link to switch back to the full version again.
No I'm not on the App which had the same difficulty so I switched to old format which they have now made like the app! I think programs need adjustments for tablets but they have not been made. I can now see (feint) page numbers but no edit/delete/flag. I also cannot enlarge screen which is a real problem now that my eyesight is failing:(
Madge wrote: "No I'm not on the App which had the same difficulty so I switched to old format which they have now made like the app! I think programs need adjustments for tablets but they have not been made. I c..."That's a real problem. I guess you need someone else who is also using a tablet to advise you if they know a way round it.
True. Developers sometimes make adjustments for the Ipad but not for other tablets, like Samsung, which is what I use.
Everyman wrote: "I am interested in these early chapters by the differences between America and England. Early on, James contends that Mr. Touchett had "an American physiognomy" which he had both brought with hi..."
Perhaps Madge is right and this has to do with phrenology. My initial thought was that Mr. Touchett had a more rugged appearance, but I'm not sure the text supports that conclusion. James doesn't fully develop the idea here.
As far as caricatures are concerned, I think it's too early to say that about any of the characters. My impression is that we're going to have several well developed characters. Already we have a fairly complex description of Isabel.
Concerning the contrasts between America and England, I've been wrestling with whether this is an American or a British novel, and whether it matters. I'm not sure if we want to discuss this or not - I know I don't have an authoritative list of attributes of what makes a novel American or British. Here are a few thoughts though - Hawthorne, Twain, Dreiser, and Crane are distinctly American authors. If I had to talk about an American "style" in the 19th century these are the examples I would use. On the British side stand Austen, Dickens, and Eliot. Anyone with a moderate amount of exposure to Victorian literature could identify an unmarked passage from Dickens as British. Then there are those authors who are harder to classify. I think Edith Wharton belongs in this category. Her subject matter is definitely American - whether we're talking about Ethan Frome or Age of Innocence we see American attitudes and customs throughout. It's when we discuss her style that classifying her becomes more difficult. Her prose is closer to that of Eliot than Twain or Hawthorne. Like Wharton, James's prose is liminal, though I think he leans toward the British side.
Jeremy wrote: "Concerning the contrasts between America and England, I've been wrestling with whether this is an American or a British novel, and whether it matters. ..."I've seen so many (inconclusive) articles throughout the years about whether James is an American or an English writer, I have long foregone the argument, although I am still interested in insights that those who know enough to engage on the subject are able to bring to the table. As for PoaL, I'd say very much "An American on the Continent" novel seen through the eyes of a New England (Brahmin?) sophisticate who has done the Grand Tour and decided to largely reside in Britain.
Didn't James become very disillusioned with modern America after his travels around the continent? Perhaps he is consciously trying to be English and sloughing off his American heritage? He chose to live in England and mixed with English literary figures so isn't it likely that he took on some of their ways of thinking and writing? It isn't unusual for expatriates to become so enamoured of their adopted home that they 'become more [English] than the [English]'.
Madge wrote: " It isn't unusual for expatriates to become so enamoured of their adopted home that they 'become more [English] than the [English]'..."Madge -- Most of the articles I have seen have intimated all the points you make. Yet, his family seems to have been strong enough, his relationships with other Americans like Edith Wharton complex enough, and the trauma and growth of his birth nation big enough that he retained some allegiances and viewpoints that are easy to call "American," even if not easy to succinctly name.
He was a grown man when he settled in England so was likely to retain many American characteristics, especially as he came from such a strong American family and had a close relationship with his older brother in America. I doubt any of us could rid ourselves entirely of our national characterics if we emigrated at a mature age, however much we tried to 'go native'.:)
Mod
I am starting to think I should read everyone I have avoided. I surprisingly loved Moby Dick a year or so ago, I'm enjoying Ulysses and now James.
Henry James' sister was an "invalid" for years. Apparently she roused herself when Henry needed care.
@1Jeremy wrote: "...There are too many instances of meta-fiction, or breaking the fourth wall, to count. It wasn't uncommon in novels during this period and earlier to use phrases such as "dear reader" to directly address the reader. (The most awkward use of this technique occurs in Jane Eyre). The narrator, however, not only addresses his reader, but there are numerous references to reading and writing. The general affect, for me at least, of drawing our attention to the fact that we are reading a book is to break the flow of the novel. Why would James want to do this?..."Jeremy -- I just did the Google search on "meta-fiction," a concept I still don't fully understand. Would you give us a passage from PoaL that drew your attention to it as a device used by James? (Maybe even elaborate on your allusion to Jane Eyre?) Or should I just keep re-reading for awhile? I've barely started.
"'...or does it simply mean that they’re fond of their own way?' "'Whatever else it means, it’s pretty sure to mean that,' Mr. Touchett remarked."
James, Henry (2011-02-07). Portrait of a Lady. Complete Works of Henry James (Illustrated) (Chapter 1. Kindle Locations 33505-33507). Delphi Classics. (Will use some shortened version of all the above with future quotations for this discussion.)
While Homer has goddesses whispering in the ears of warriors and 2014 authors remark "selfies", James gives us to smile at father and son deciphering the matriarch's telegram.
P.S. Helen's questions about the timeline sent me back to look for telegraph. It appears that the first successful commercial underground cable between England and America went into operation in the second half of 1866.
I'm pretty new to 19th century novels, only joining Goodreads this spring and starting to read a wider range of authors as a result. However, this novel seems to show less of the formality of the period than I am used to seeing. For example when Isabel first meets Ralph, there is no formal introduction, just the comment "I'm probably your cousin" and Lord Warburton is never introduced to her at all. Is this the American influence?I was very interested in the comments about the novel seeming to be set in a later time than the 1880s. To me it could almost have been more like the 1920s and I wonder if the less formal feel made me think that.
I am really enjoying the novel so far and look forward to seeing how it progresses :)
Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "I'm pretty new to 19th century novels, only joining Goodreads this spring and starting to read a wider range of authors as a result. However, this novel seems to show less of the formality of the ..."Astute observations on this novel of manners -- or at least so I have seen it classified. I can't add insights.
Lily wrote: "@1Jeremy wrote: "...There are too many instances of meta-fiction, or breaking the fourth wall, to count. It wasn't uncommon in novels during this period and earlier to use phrases such as "dear rea..."Metafiction is an abstract idea, but I think it will be clear with a few examples. Let me start though with a definition from The Handbook to Literature (12th edition): "A work of fiction, a major concern of which is the nature of fiction itself. John Fowles's The French Lieutenant's Wife is a metafiction, as are many modern works, even as far back as Henry James, Joseph Conrad, and Marcel Proust" (Harmon 293-4). The definition continues, discussing contemporary fiction, but I don't think we need the whole thing for this conversation. I think of metafiction as a device that draws attention to the fact that you are reading/viewing a work of fiction. No doubt you remember the famous lines spoken by Jacques - "All the world is a stage and the men and women are merely players." (That's probably not an exact quote). Shakespeare incorporated these types of reminders and asides all throughout his works. (I'll speculate on why when read Shakespeare in another group). Lines like this remind the audience they are watching a play and invite them to consider what they are doing while they are doing it. If this was a school assignment I could give examples from every century starting in the 1500s. For now, let's skip ahead to the 19th century.
I stated that Jane Eyre had some awkward examples of metafiction. Unfortunately, it's been about four years since I last read the book and I can't remember exactly where the most annoying passage is. I did find a couple of good examples though. From the Norton version - "Reader, I married him. A quiet wedding we had: he and I, the parson and clerk, were alone present" (Bronte 382). Bronte addresses the reader directly, reminding her that she is reading a novel. Some people argue that these occurrences create an intimacy between the narrator and reader. Here's a passage where I think that is what Bronte is attempting, "Stay till he comes, reader; and, when I disclose my secret to him, you shall share the confidence" (235). It's as though she's whispering to us and beckoning us to come closer.
Personally, I don't care for how Bronte employs metafiction. I think James is much more sophisticated. If you haven't reread up to chapter six, then when you get there look for the numerous references to writers and fiction. Here's one - "Her paternal aunt, Mrs. Varian, once spread the rumor that Isabel was writing a book - Mrs. Varian having a reverence for books - and averred that Isabel would distinguish herself in print. Mrs. Varian thought highly of literature, for which she entertained that esteem that is connected with a sense of privation." The passage goes on to talk about the fact that Mrs. Varian didn't own any books of her own and read the New York Interviewer. My favorite line is, "[Mrs. Varian] was determined to bring up [her daughters] seriously, and they read nothing at all."
Now, the question remains, why does James use this technique? The passages I quote are about a reader and her relationship to literature. Mrs. Varian has a vague notion that she should have reverence for literature, but she doesn't have any actual experience with it. I'm sure we all know people like that. In other places though I think we see an artist reflecting on the nature of his work. We see the same thing in Yeats's "Sailing to Byzantium" - the poet writing about the meaning and value of art. I don't want to get too mired in guessing what James's purpose is though. A better question is what affect does it have on the reader?
Personally, the section where Isabel is described as having her learning from books and Mr. Touchett's knowledge coming from experience caused me to reflect on my own views of epistemology. I'm a bookish sort of person. Most of what I know has come from books. James has forced me to reflect on this. It will be interesting to see if he develops this technique further in the rest of the novel.
Hopefully that was helpful and not too drawn out. If you get past chapter six and still don't see what I'm talking about then you can tell me I'm reading too much into the text.
Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "I'm pretty new to 19th century novels, only joining Goodreads this spring and starting to read a wider range of authors as a result. However, this novel seems to show less of the formality of the ..."I think that's something to keep an eye on. I haven't read the novel before, but my guess is James is setting up a contrast between American manners and English manners. I expect to see more formal English characters in the coming chapters.
I love these descriptions of Isabel:"It had lately occurred to her that her mind was a good deal of a vagabond, and she had spent much ingenuity in training it to a military step and teaching it to advance, to halt, to retreat, to perform even more complicated manoeuvres, at the word of command. Just now she had given it marching orders and it had been trudging over the sandy plains of a history of German Thought.."
""Well, I don't like originals; I like translations," Mr. Ludlow had more than once replied. "Isabel's written in a foreign tongue. I can't make her out."
"Her imagination was by habit ridiculously active; when the door was not open it jumped out of the window."
One is given the impression of a free- spirited, intelligent, somewhat original young woman.
Given having noticed telegrams earlier, I laughed out loud when Mrs. Touchett said:"I never know what I mean in my telegrams—especially those I send from America. Clearness is too expensive..." Chap. 5.
Twitter generates different problems!
(I am on my way to Ch. 6, Jeremy. Thx for your comments/tutorial....)
Oh, my, having read the novel, how much foreshadowing is embedded in Chapter 5. I probably can't say more without spoilers, but might suggest coming back and reading this chapter again after completing the novel.
It seems clear that James never heard the edict that one should show and not tell , because he seems to do a great deal of telling, even in the middle of conversations which you should be using to show the natures of his characters
Everyman wrote: "It seems clear that James never heard the edict that one should show and not tell , because he seems to do a great deal of telling, even in the middle of conversations which you should be using to ..."Do you think the extent of telling James indulges in about the inner flip-flops of his characters could be shown rather than in some sense told? Do you have an example that seems especially egregious, i.e., a particular conversation?
I am in the midst of chapter 6 and playing with how that might have been written to be more showing than telling in roughly the same amount of words. Or back a chapter where I & R walk along looking at the portraits and art work.
Since he has written on novel writing, I wonder what James says about show versus tell.
Good thoughts, Eman. Thx for bringing to our consciousness.
My own reactions are less negative -- maybe it is more like "woman-talk" speculating on the motives of others? Also, as if it is describing inner space in detail rather than or as well as the physical surroundings.
(Before he gets done, James usually confounds me with what he shows in terms of the behavior of his characters.)
Mod
I had the same reaction, that he leaves little for us to figure out. I'll have to look for a specific passage that made me think that.
Robin wrote: "I had the same reaction, that he leaves little for us to figure out. I'll have to look for a specific passage that made me think that...."Robin -- If that's what you like (things to figure out), don't worry, he will (leave a lot) -- unless you read James a lot differently than I ever have ever been able to do. In which case, I much, much look forward to your posts! [g]
I liked the part at the end of Chapter VII, where Mrs. Touchet is discussing proper behavior with Isabel."I shall always tell you," her aunt answered, "whenever I see you taking what seems to me too much liberty." "Pray do; but I don't say I shall always think your remonstrance just." "Very likely not. You're too fond of your own ways." "Yes, I think I'm very fond of them. But I always want to know the things one shouldn't do." "So as to do them?" asked her aunt. "So as to choose," said Isabel.
James, Henry (2012-05-16). The Portrait of a Lady - Volume 1 (Kindle Locations 1236-1239). . Kindle Edition.
Casceil wrote: ""But I always want to know the things one shouldn't do." "So as to do them?" asked her aunt. "So as to choose," said Isabel..."Loved this conversation. You just know Isabel is a free-spirit and can sense the impropriety coming :)
This is indeed dense prose, especially in the long description of Isabel’s mind set. I should re-read those parts, but not now (this is my first James and a sort of reconnaissance flight). So let me try to recapitulate what James told us about her.He stresses her lack of experience and good intentions. Isabel is a bit bookish, but very outgoing. She is self-confident, setting high-norms, but somewhat lacking in self-criticism. Her 'originality’ and show of independence are her trade-mark.
She is well-off, but not rich enough to remain independent. At some point she will have to decide on marriage or work. But even while she became an orphan at a tender age, she has no scars yet. In short: she is very 'American’, and we may expect that she is in for some unpleasant surprises.
A more private impression: a girl spoiled by dad, with a tendency to see all men as good-natured simpletons. Someone who would fight with her mother, except, there is no mother. Will she pick on someone else instead?
But everything may not be what it seems. Jeremy (@1) quoted a sentence that also drew my attention: "[Isabel] would be an easy victim of scientific criticism, if she were not intended to awaken on the reader's part an impulse more tender and more purely expectant."
Pardon, how can a girl be a victim of scientific criticism? What science is James thinking of - that of his brother? Is he telling us that he is holding back in order to put us readers in the right mind frame? And that we should not suppose novels have anything to do with truth? Ah, I think I like that.
I think scientific criticism here is being used as objective analysis. Men are smitten by Isabel's looks, smile, independence, and general demeanor and are not looking more deeply. James' excellent description of her mindset reveals less than meets the eye. Like you say, some unpleasant surprises are probably in store for her. I marvel at James' ability to turn a phrase. His description of each character's mind set and history can go on for pages. This can become tedious in less competent hands.
I laughed at the hidden humor in this sentence:
"Ralph Touchett was a philosopher, but nevertheless he knocked on the door (at a quarter t o seven) with a good deal of eagerness."
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "...James' excellent description of her mindset reveals less than meets the eye...."Xan -- What a sentence! Haven't deciphered your meaning yet, but felt very intuitive about how James writes.
Mod
Robin -- If that's what you like (things to..."
I see what you mean as well, he tells us a lot about Isabel's mind, but not some really basic things, like why she doesn't want to marry. It seems she doesn't really know herself. Or she just doesn't tell anyone including us.
The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
Author, Author (other topics)The Master (other topics)
The Bostonians (other topics)
Washington Square (other topics)
What Maisie Knew (other topics)
More...
1. I've never read a Henry James novel, though I did start and abandon this one seven or eight years ago.
2. I've never led an online book discussion.
3. I've never led a discussion where I didn't know, more or less, the reading backgrounds of the participants and what they expected to gain from the discussion.
Second, a few assumptions:
1. If you're active in this group you enjoy literature from this time period.
2. Everyone has read at least one novel from the era, no one has read everything, and some of you have read far more from the 19th century than I have.
3. Twice as many people will view the posts as will participate in the discussion (though everyone is encouraged to participate!)
4. Some people were really hoping to read something else and their interest in this novel is mild at best.
5. Someone has read most, if not all of James's work because he's her favorite author.
With that in mind, allow me to briefly explain my approach. I will post highlights from the reading but not detailed summaries. If you have difficulty following the plot you can certainly ask for clarification here. Or if you prefer you can use Spark Notes or Shmoop - the chapter summaries generally do not contain spoilers for what happens later. I'll also try not to develop discussion prompts that sound like school assignments. Instead, I'll share my observations and trust that if those don't stimulate conversation someone will post on what interests them. My goal, however, is to make this a discussion, so I'll do my best connect disparate conversations together. Finally, one way I gain a better understanding of a novel is to place it in its context and compare it with other works. I know we don't all have a common core of books to reference, but hopefully not having read a particular book will not affect the overall understanding of the point. And now, without further longwindedness, The Portrait of a Lady.
Chapter one - we are introduced to Mr. Touchett and learn he is a rich American banker living in England on a storied estate. He is in poor health, as is his son Ralph, and he has an unhappy marriage.
Chapter two - we learn that Mrs. Touchett spends extended periods of the year away from her husband. We are introduced to Miss Archer.
Chapter three - we are given a glimpse of Isabel's childhood and how she has come to her present position.
Chapter four - more insight is given into Isabel's character. She is described as original, unique, privileged, and sheltered. We meet her suitor Casper Goodwood.
Chapter five - we are introduced more fully to Ralph Touchett and his father Daniel Touchett.
Chapter six - we are given more information about Isabel's life in Albany and meet her friend Henrietta Stackpole.
Chapter seven - Isabel is settling into her life in England, but at the same time wants to assert her independence.
Initially I was struck by James's style. The narrative sections are rich and dense, which is why I think I gave up on the novel the first time. I don't know about everyone else, but I feel like I have to read this book slowly. Several times my attention drifted while reading and I had to reread sections because I missed important details. One of the difficulties is how the narrator jumps around in time. For example, one moment we're with Isabel when she was a child, and then we're quickly back in the present. There are additional places where you have to read closely so as not to lose your place in time. I'm enjoying the style, but James's pacing is different from someone like Dickens.
Here are some ideas I think would be interesting to discuss further:
The contrast between American and English customs and manners. I expect this will be a theme throughout the book, but already at the end of chapter seven we sense Isabel may chafe under England's more conservative customs. Also, Mr. Touchett has made it a point that he and his son will not become too English. Any thoughts on why that is?
For those of you who recently read The House of the Seven Gables you no doubt see what a prominent part houses play in this section. The Archer home in Albany is a place of mystery, the house across the street is gaudy, the Touchett estate has a long history and is a source of pride for Mr. Touchett, but Mr. Warburton claims his estate is even better. Isabel hopes there is a ghost in the Touchett residence, adding a sense of the romantic and Gothic to the house.
There are too many instances of meta-fiction, or breaking the fourth wall, to count. It wasn't uncommon in novels during this period and earlier to use phrases such as "dear reader" to directly address the reader. (The most awkward use of this technique occurs in Jane Eyre). The narrator, however, not only addresses his reader, but there are numerous references to reading and writing. The general affect, for me at least, of drawing our attention to the fact that we are reading a book is to break the flow of the novel. Why would James want to do this? A further observation is that Isabel seems to have received much of her information and to have had her imagination formed by novels. One certainly can't be blamed for seeing shades of Northanger Abbey here.
I feel like I may be throwing too much out at once. Here are two final thoughts/questions: what is it with invalids in 19th century literature? They're everywhere! (at least in the upper classes). More seriously though, do we have a reliable narrator? In chapter six we have the following lines, "[Isabel] would be an easy victim of scientific criticism, if she were not intended to awaken on the reader's part an impulse more tender and more purely expectant." Here we have more meta-fiction, but also a candid admission from the narrator that he wants us to see Isabel in a particular way in spite of any evidence to the contrary. Should we go along with the narrator or do we gain anything from being resistant readers?
That's enough for now. I look forward to everyone's comments!