Indonesians Who Love English Books discussion
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The Secret History by Donna Tartt
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Mod
What do you guys think about the plot? Do you enjoy it, is it predictable? How about the characters?
One thing that I really like about this book is the close-knit-almost-like-cult feeling that we get from the group and how the main character is able to blend it but yet still feels like an outsider.
I just downloaded the book today, i'll share more when i'm done reading it :)
Mod
hahaha so do i. i have just read a few in prologue.. i hope it will turn to be great story since i vote this one for group reading :D
Just got the eBook and the first sentence in the first chapter already interesting
I've actually read about one-third of this book some years ago before stopping due to one thing and another. Glad that this book was picked for the group read as it gives me the chance to read it all over again.As I remember it, I was a bit conflicted about whether I liked or disliked the narrator, Richard Papen. On one hand I truly symphatize with him. I know how it feels to want to belong somewhere. And it's saddening that, as Lynossa has pointed out, he's able to enter this group of friend yet still feels alienated.
On the other hand, he often goes to ridiculous length to attain what he thinks as beautiful (including the friendship with Julian's students), what with the lies and all. He's so uncomfortable in his own skin that sometimes he makes me feel uncomfortable too.
Anyway, I'm eager to finish this book to form some final opinion and discuss with you, guys!
just finished the first chapter (after a few days) and I don't know if it's because of me being too tired these last few days or because of the philosophy talk or because of some difficult words, but chapter one was really tough for me. I am still very interested by what the prologue presented so hopefully I'll get the hang of it soon enough.Anyone else having the same initial opinion? Hahaha...
P.S I totally dig the image of the campus with ivy covered brickwalls and all... kyaa~
P.P.S I started reading the ebook because I couldn't find it anywhere but a few days ago I incidentally went to PS and stopped by at Kino... voila! They got a copy yay~
Aryanti wrote: "just finished the first chapter (after a few days) and I don't know if it's because of me being too tired these last few days or because of the philosophy talk or because of some difficult words, b..."I feel you, Aryanti! I first picked it up when I was writing my thesis, looking for some kind of stress-relief. Needless to say, this book failed miserably to do so. It kind of really demands our full attention, doesn't it? I'm taking it at a very leisurely pace now and definitely enjoying it better than the first time. And yes, the imagery is especially beautiful, love it!
Mod
Aryanti, I and Oon once discussed about Richard and how he was - sort of - empty. He has no idealism or stance and I guess that's what draws him to Julian and his group of students in first place.
It is interesting really, because, based on personal experience, people would have had a set of ideals and values when entering undergraduate school. But, that is not the case with Richard Papen. He comes from an uninterestingly average family from a small hometown. He wants to erase the "average-ness" and build some identity. For him, Julian's pupils are the rich, articulate and intelligent elite yet surrounded with magnetic mysteriousness, a group of people into which he wants to join.An average guy wants to join the cool table, I think that is the first part of the book about.
Interesting things to talk about:
- Papen's first impression of the group
- Why he is so shy about his background
- Papen's impression of Julian and why he is interested in classical Greek
- The group's power dynamics
This is an interesting book and somehow relatable. Looking forward for your opinions, guys
Mod
First of all, I love the prose. That being said, has any of you guys seen Shonda Rimes' How To Get Away with Murder? It feels somewhat similar - rather campy, do you know what I mean? I think the concept is very similar; a group of students are selected to study / work under an experienced authoritative figure (although Prof. Keating and Julian are so different), there is an outsider (the one most different to the rest - not having the same background, tutelage etc), and I guess together they get up to no good - ha!. I'm not the only one seeing the similarities, right?
After reading just those 2 bits, I somewhat agree that it is a relatable book. Haven't we all been an outsider at some point in our lives? I sure have. And I've even changed my values and my outlook on life in order to fit in. Time eventually showed me the errors of my ways, and I got out when I could and now I'm happy being me. Somehow I feel that this is not to be so for Papen?
So far: love the atmosphere, the writing. We'll see how the story goes.
i'm on my halfway reading this book, it's definitely a hard book to finish, not really like the characters and the confusing plot, but the story is interesting, so i think i'm going to finish it anyway.I still don't get why those students looking up Julian so much, beside he's an eccentric teacher.
so far, I prefer The goldfinch than The Secret History.
I finally finished this book last night. Boy, do I read super slow. The book has some draggy bit in it, I must admit, but I greatly enjoyed the rest. Anyway, I think Oon's & Lynossa's view of how Richard has no ideals, that he is an empty shell, so to speak, is spot on. Perhaps what he ultimately wants is to escape from being associated with the stereotype of people on his social standing. This is probably why he was reluctant to reveal his real upbringing and lies all the time to cover it up. He can't stand the thought that people look at him the way he looks at his own parents.
Also, Richard said in the beginning of the book that his fatal flaw is 'a morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs', and it's an apt description to his motive, don't you think? The beautiful Hampden college, Julian's pupils who struck him as intelligent and refined and have that mysterious charm about them, impressed him. These are the things that he wants to be associated with. He wants to be a part of this grand picture.
@Rachel: I totally agree with what you said that how we've been an outsider at one point of our life. I also used to be that girl who tried too hard to fit in. It was one of the most miserable time in my life. So yes, this is a relatable book. Sometimes unsettlingly so, because it manages to lay out my past insecurities and takes them to the next level, haha.
Mod
Scratch what I said about it being like How to Get Away with Murder - it's nothing like it! Is it odd of me to say that I have such soft spots for all the characters? (And by that I mean the power group of 6). From the get go I was riveted. I know many people are mentioning that it often dragged, but I honestly don't think so. I loved every single part of it. And I am so sad that it's over.
Which character did you love most guys? Did their actions about you-know-what made you dislike them?
Edit: (view spoiler)
Wah you guys finished already? I've been busy and didn't have a chance to continue my reading hahaha.
Mod
Haha, do you like it though? I've also been so busy lately that I really had to steal time to read it. It worked because I was absolutely in love with it, and I really made the effort to find time to read it in installments. Goodness, I miss it already, haha.
Mod
My fav character is of course Henry, I'm always interested in character that has certain power or charisma to make people follow them. I never idolize people so I find this aspect really interesting.
I know Julian is their biggest idol but everyone looks up to Henry for every problem they have until they become tangled and feel suffocated with Henry's power/charisma.
Mod
Mod
I read that Francis appears in The Goldfinch for about a sentence or two. Now I'm curious...
Rachel wrote: "Haha, do you like it though? I've also been so busy lately that I really had to steal time to read it. It worked because I was absolutely in love with it, and I really made the effort to find time to read it in installments. Goodness, I miss it already, haha. "Dunno, I have only read 1 chapter lol.
But i need to finish it so I can get started on Gone Girl, been curious about that book for awhile~
Mod
I read that Francis appears in The Goldfinch for about a sentence or two. Now I'm curious..."
I heard that too! You've read both, right? You didn't realize that Francis was mentioned? It must have been super subtle, huh?
Gerry wrote: "Dunno, I have only read 1 chapter lol.
But i need to finish it so I can get started on Gone Girl, been curious about that book for awhile~"
The beginning of The Secret History had me at about 80%? I didn't want to jump into the conclusion that I was going to love it though, so I played it cool for a bit... but then I lost my cool further in into the book #whereismychill. I've read Gone Girl, and I guess it's a matter of taste, but The Secret History is so superior. That does not mean that Gone Girl isn't good though, I enjoyed it quite a lot too. I just think that The Secret History is on a whole other playing field. I am, however, desperate to see Gone Girl the movie.
Mod
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Anyway, did you like the ending to The Secret History?
Mod
Well, the ending is typical Donna Tartt, if you read The Goldfinch, you'll understand what I mean. It's not a happy ending or sad ending, it's just the way it is as life is.
Mod
I've been stalking the TheSecretHistory tag on tumblr and I came across this list of important scenes in the book (don't take it too seriously) and this is by far my favourite:
Richard comparing himself to gatsby in the great gatsby when he is transparently a nick figure because it's so true, it's so funny and true.
#fangirling #geekingout
I don't know what to do with myself anymore. Help.
Mod
That's interesting. I guess his desire to remove himself from his modest past and be part of the exclusive club makes him think he's like Gatsby. But thr motives are completely different; I think he sees himself as gatsby is a part of him trying to romanticize himself.
Rachel wrote: "I have so many feels, Lyn, so many that I'm afraid I'm just going to go on a ramble and nobody will understand because it won't make much sense, haha.I've been stalking the TheSecretHistory tag o..."
So... he thinks he's a player where in fact he's more of a spectator? Richard, that is.
Mod
That's interesting. I guess his desire to remove himself..."
Yes, I mean, clearly he's not Gatsby, right? And to quote Gerry, he think he's a player where in fact he's more of a spectator (And yes, Gerry, yes). I mean (I'm saying I mean a lot), to be fair, he does partake in the group's 'later' activities, but even then, it still seems like he's not really in it with them, do you get what I'm saying? He is still like an outsider, despite it all. He's more of urm, a more adventurous version of Nick Carraway, but at the end of the day, still good ol' Nick. Never Gatsby.
I missed the train :(I know how you feel Rach, that was how I feel when I finished the Goldfinch, and, to a lesser extent, The Secret History. I think that the two books are very similar to each other; it feels as if they were two bottles of the same brand of wine but from different good years.
The feeling was like as if we were a part of the group, very much like Richard Papen, whose dissolution is inevitable, and we could only reminisce back with a lens of nostalgia. The melancholy of a time lost, a particular time that was ours and ours only, in which we truly belonged to something larger. Imagine you are George Harrison remembering times before Yoko Ono.
Now it is I who rambles and sputters nonsense :D
Mod
I absolutely agree with this:
The feeling was like as if we were a part of the group, very much like Richard Papen, whose dissolution is inevitable, and we could only reminisce back with a lens of nostalgia. The melancholy of a time lost, a particular time that was ours and ours only, in which we truly belonged to something larger.
Wait, I'm getting myself confused though. Was it you or Lyn who liked The Secret History better? Are you saying that The Goldfinch is superior? Did you notice the Francis reference in The Goldfinch?
WHO'S YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER!
In case you haven't noticed, I am going crazy post this book, haha. And hell yes to rambles and nonsense. Those are what fandoms are made of, haha.
Mod
I completely agree, in a way I think Richard feels the best time of his life is when he was in Hamden being a part of something. We can see that toward the end, he still clings to those times.
Lyn likes The Secret History better because she is into cults and secret society stuffs :D while I am a more cultured person :DYes, I like the Goldfinch better because of its singularity (Lyn and I have already discussed it at great length, I guess). I did not notice Francis because I read the Goldfinch first, but all the more reason to read it again, yay!
My favorite character would be... Charles. Yes, I know he is an alcoholic, (view spoiler) unstable bastard, but I always fall for characters with inner demons.
Mod
It's great that none of us actually has the same favourite character; you know how sometimes in stories there are clear winners as who would be the favourite? I guess it doesn't apply here in The Secret History, and I think it's awesome. I can't wait to see others join in discussion and tell us about their favourite characters *coughrezacough*.
Where is everybody else up to? I know that Yanti and Cininta are getting sidetracked by other things, haha.
Finally finished it! Yay! Overall a 4 stars, although it's a bit unfair because I was very very distracted all throughout the first part of the book and I think that is why my opinion is affected. Now I know that sometimes it is not wise to write a review right after one finishes a book, but if I don't write it now I'm afraid I'll completely lose the motivation later, so this will be rough and unsystematic.Not sure if this is spoilery or not but just in case:
(view spoiler)
Rachel wrote: "I have so many feels, Lyn, so many that I'm afraid I'm just going to go on a ramble and nobody will understand because it won't make much sense, haha.I've been stalking the TheSecretHistory tag o..."
Eeep! I didn't realize Gatsby was even mentioned in the previous comments hahaha it's funny though because for me it reminds me of the style of the movie (and not the characterization) but now that you mentioned it I totally get it, Richard being Nick and all.
We will now start our first quarterly group read - Mod's Choice! And this thread is made to discuss one of our double feature, The Secret History by Donna Tartt.
Remember, if you write a review within the thread, you'll be in the running to win a free t-shirt!
So, who has started? What are your initial thoughts?
Looking forward to see your posts!
xx