NOS4A2 [Oct 24, 2019]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "I earned a small spot on Hailee's fridge...well, its deffo not the same as actually having a Dad but 💪 I'll take what I can get! Thank you Hay. ...."

You are more than welcome share my dad if you want but I think its only fair to warn you he will tell the same joke over and over again, he's constantly doing accents and impressions and if he finds something that annoys you takes great pleasure in doing it repeatedly until you're contemplating murder. He's constantly chopping lumps off the cheese and not wrapping it back up properly, and I don't think I have to point out the accident prone thing!!! If you are prepared for it then share away 😂😂

Feel free to ignore this question if you don't want to talk about it (view spoiler)[but you've mention father/daughter relationships and missing out before do I wondered, did you lose you dad or is he not part of your life for other reasons? (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

I've heard a lot of people mention Lonesome Dove but I've never really checked it out but it is officially on my TBR now 😉

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Re Michener....I only asked for your longlist bcuz I just finished Dune but knows what mood we will jointly be in by the time the BR rolls around? ...."

Yep that is pretty much my aim next year. Lots of last minute decisions/mood reads. Closer to the time we can just pick the one that appeals to us most. Plus if Space wins the group poll in the other group I might end up reading it earlier in the year that I anticipated...

[Hailee]

Triumph: One Eternal Christmas Eve

Those kids (view spoiler)[really are all inhuman psychopaths. I mean I already knew that but it's not until you meet them all that it really hits you quite how much Manx has stolen from them. (hide spoiler)]

The adult (view spoiler)[heads on the tree is quite a gory image but since they are all Bing's predecessors and helped Manx kidnap all those kids anyway I don't feel too sorry for them. It would have been a fitting end for Bing as well (hide spoiler)]

Whe Vic is systematically (view spoiler)[blowing up Christmasland it has a very action film feel. I can easily imagine it like its some film with an actor like Bruce Willis, Daniel Craig or Arnold Schwarzenegger riding around on a bike, great big explosion happening behind.

(hide spoiler)]

I'm scared to read the last part. (view spoiler)[In my heart I know Vic couldn't have survived all her injuries plus all the bats escaping the bridge bug I don't want it confirming while I still have a bit of hope. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

I'm finished!!!!! Didn't want to leave 17 pages for tomorrow so I just read them. I'll make my comments on it in a bit.

[Hailee]

Come All Ye Faithful

I'm so shocked (view spoiler)[that Vic died off page. I knew it was coming but I imagined an emotional goodbye with Lou and Wayne next to her. Not... what we got. I'm disappointed. (hide spoiler)]

I'm glad so many of (view spoiler)[the kids were able to come home. Don't know what'll happen to them though a lot of them have been there so long that their families will be long gone. And how can it be explained why kid that went missing decades ago are still the same age. (hide spoiler)]

I've warmed up to the idea (view spoiler)[of Lou and Tabitha. I was more against it when I held out hope for Vic's survival I think. (hide spoiler)]

I think I'm going to rate this three overall. It was a good book but it didn't wow me particularly. Plus it didn't really scare me. Not upset about that but kind misses the mark on the horror front of it can't even scare a wimp like me 😂😂. The best part of reading it has been discussing it with you.

[Hailee]

I can't believe there are over 100 comments on this thread 😂

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "You are more than welcome share ..."

Aaaah...all that *waves airily* I chalk it down to the artistic temperament and accept immediately. Your dad sounds wonderful. Have nothing to offer in return except the Evil Grampa here *pushes Sauron in the general direction of England* who did not expect it but somehow got saddled wi' me as a sort of honorary sixth grandschild....and I have no idea whether he can even draw a straight line or how he treats cheese 😂 since the Eye of Mordor were only ever a distant menacing presemce.
Ok *serious face* now.
Why will you do this for me, Hay? I mean, I'm nobody to you yet...just a bunch of words and pictures and didn't ppl tell you not to trust strangers on the internet? When I saw,,,I thought I have no words or pictures for this so I'll have to take light and talk about cheese.
But I hope you know I how truly started to care about your family...

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "I can't believe there are over 100 comments on this thread 😂"

Yeah...😃😄 and I'm starting the last sectioms now but won't post until the next time I login to GR,,,have to be out all day moro.

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Hailee wrote: "You are more than welcome share ..."

Aaaah...all that *waves airily* I chalk it down to the artistic temperament and accept immediately. Your dad sounds wonderful. Have nothing to o..."

Sometimes you don't have to don't have to know someone in real life to know they are they have a good soul. But don't worry if you start questioning me on my credit card details I'll tell you where to stuff it 😂😉.

I'm going to ask the mods for a thread for London soon. I've gone through my copy and marked all the chapters and how many pages there are. I don't know if we should plan a schedule with dates or not, I was.thinking it might be an idea to just use the chapter breakdown as a marker for when we need to comment so that it prompts us to do it regularly but if you want to set dates for when we read chapters I'm up for that as well.

[Zaara]

Excellent, I logged in and now this thing is dying on me...must logging out now but back in a bit!

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Excellent, I logged in and now this thing is dying on me...must logging out now but back in a bit!"

No problem. The London thread is set up now and I set up a comment marking the chapter/page breakdown.

[Zaara]

Sorry for the delayed post, Hailee. Stuff happened and I haven't been able to give ANY attention to tasks... *smh* but don't worry gal...saying this in a good way...couz launched a website/ebiz/portal, was helping with some of the publicity in my spare time + holidays.......

Right...I'm now officially woffling! Of course I finished this. First of all... Re Xmasland👌xcellent observation about the shards of her sanity being connected to the bats in the belfry...I never even paid attention to how much significance was packed into that "seemingly" throwaway detail...so good on ya!
Heh. This is why I love the comcept of such leisurely BRs with frequent postings + our (large proportion of) essay-writing crew here!

And here's my log/replies for the last two sections. We agreed on most of the book but have kinda different feels about many things in these two chapters.

TRIUMPH
(view spoiler)[
TRIUMPH log
1. Quote I enjoyed:
"Beyond was an oil slick of darkness, coagulated with stars: stars rolling in frozen streams and impressionistic swirls. It was a thousand times more vivid, but every bit as false, as any sky Vic had ever drawn in her Search Engine books. The world did end there: She was looking out at the cold, fathomless limits of Charlie Manx’s imagination."

Very cool VanGogh riff...I swear I was thinking of precisely this song and this painting and think I mentioned it in one of my earlier posts...so Hi5 ✋ me & Joe Hill. And here is a return picture for you. Btw, I love action movies. Wanna do a full F&tF (NOT Faithful & the Fallen 😂) rewatch sometime. Keep putting it off.......



2. Yeap actual Christmasland was not very scary, despite all the whistles and trappings: the Chucky kids and ALL the dark horrors underlying the Xmas cuteness in Umbridge ways. It all just seemed caricature-ish to me, like those Tunnel of Horror things where you're scared but its a controllable scaredness...
Hey...you know something? Just had a funny flashback: in sixth grade I actually ARRANGED one of those for a school fest...all around the school...I plotted a maze and everything...like I was some 💪Rowling writing the Triwizard maze task or something...used rows of desks to make walls & all my mates dressed up...mummies and sh!t and I was (of course) an exotic ghost in bloodred silk robes with a candle clutched under my chin and goth black eyes n sh!t...I was supposed to sing a creepy song too but the wax began to drip and ppl would keep idiotically stopping to say hi thus ruining my ghostly staging attempts since I never could NOT reply...I was thus not very scary at all and failed completely in front of the parents/visitors/school guests. And the skeleton absconded and never returned my black tights...but our stall cost the cheapest to run (desks are free, bunch of costumes/no baked goods/craftsy stockpiles) + we made the most money n it all went to Terry Fox next month...I was sooooo thrilled,,,sh!t I totally forgot I even did this...haven't remembered those days for years...wow! But trust me to ask permit for a small stall and then arrange a school-wide disruption...😝😂
Sorry...this was prolly boring as death...back to Xmasland...yeah, things were going BOOM so fast that it seemed...yep, spot on, like the closing scenes of an action movie...so thanks for that pic. Agree!!

3. Didn't connect that abt the adult heads at all...😶😯 I thought they must be the other unfortunate parents who came to rescue their kids...but what you say makes more sense...uuugh. But Hay, you're too kindhearted. Me I'm GLAD Bing never made it to Christmasland. That was his life's dream, no? And thus he died as a unfulfilled, disempowered loser at the hands of one his abductees and this is what he deserved after he made all those women feel disempowered in horrific ways. He deserved to die in a pool of his own shit N choking on his own sevroflourine N knowing he was ultimately used and rejected by Manx for whom he did all this.

4. Re Manx death: I wanted Vic to personally smash Manx to bits or blow him up into the sky in violent, gory ways...so I was kinda disappointed (at the time) that he was killed by the bridge collapse...but come to think of it, I now prefer the subtleness/nuance of Joe's ending because Manx and his demonic powers were mostly a mental construct so he had to be fought internally. The real war was always in the INSCAPE...so I'm now glad Manx was destroyed there = metaphorically showing that goodness really does 😂 TRIUMPH no matter how old or how strong/deeprooted the bad stuff is. God, just read my exposition on this last point and laughed out loud bcuz its so superannoyingly preachy I just choked on my own existential pulpit.
Kill me now, Hay! Do you see why I nevaaaarr let myself rate/write reviews?? Bcuz I am an evil thunderkumt.
😂😂😂
End of Log
(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

COME ALL YE FAITHFUL
(view spoiler)[
5. You know what?
I actually liked the quiet offpage death after the traumatic turbulence of Vic's life. It was like decently drawing curtains. First of all, I don't think we both could have borne it if we had to watch her say goodbye to Wayne. I don't think Joe Hill himself could bring himself to write it. That sh!t's tough...and who better to know this than you, Hay? Huh...that's prolly why you felt this way and I feel the opposite. I know this chapter must've been more difficult for you...we were kinda dreading and bracing for it the whole time...

+ but y'know what I was thinking most while reading these last three chapters? It was not as much about the story but about how naive and INNOCENT Joe Hill really is...such a big sentimental softie...he gave (almost) everyone a big round of reunions and a chance for closure/to say goodbye...authors are brutal...take Malazan, for instance or GRRM...in comparison this dude was a teddy bear, giving ppl rounds of hugs n all...

6. Btheway, after posting/refreshing the page/ seeing your log too late, only then did I notice...I seem to have wrote a huge essay but 😂 also seem to have completely blocked/ignored/skipped the whole section of the ChrisMcQueen reconciliation/death. So yeah. Thatz's duly noted n all.

7. Your Tabitha-Lou guess was right! Wooh! Glad you approve...I'm sooo bad at coupleguessing and was oblivious to those clues...she was not his "mother" after all...huh! Go figure. But I like the tentative stage where the author left things...alls the new beginning feels + 😂 how observant kids are...........

8. The 'smashing the Christmas ormanents...was some real sh!t and again...the addiction metaphor...the fight's never really over, is it? The "evil calls from Christmasland" will keep coming until you take hard efforts to smash every last trinket to smithereens, destroy every part of the evil inscape.
That was a real cool scene...kinda strong and empowering...going back together as a unit...smashing up the past with their own hands...rescuing/bringing back the lost children (the INNER child?)...Vic really knew what to do for her kid even in death AND she kinda left word with Lou.
And the best part is, he kept his word...💪❤️
But yeah, dunno how those poor timewarp kids are gonna explain or even readjust to the new world around them now, Hay. Living's not gonna be easy...after being dead so long.......they'll have worse psychological withdrawal symptoms than Wayne, who barely spent time in Xmasland, no?
(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Re rating...ummm yeah you're right abt the scare quotient. At the end it was more psychological horror for me...the truly scary things about this book were the NON-supernatural parts.

Dont rate books but for siscussion's sake, I'd give the book four stars (as an experience because I had takeaways from it/from this timeframe that I read it in/the ppl I read it with/got sentimental and I only dock one star (but painlessly & with lots of love) because I feel Joe Hill has a huge reservoir of potential he has yet to grow into and to say he were King Lite (imo) is just too darn simplistic.

Also I had three kinda BIG takeaways from this book, oddly all had to do with Vic:
VICTORIA CHAR DISCUSSION FULLBOOK
(view spoiler)[
1. She was always running away from. Always turbulent/always seeking. She thought peace was "boring" and "stifling". Much of this rampant curiosity came from her horrible early life...which gave Vic the feeling that there was always a "new adventure" around the corner...her bikes were like her "fix"/rush if you think about it. Even her books were turbulent and cluttered and "hide and seek" but this constant search for extra excitement never really filled the hole inside her. The only place she wasn't like this was in her love + sexuality. She was extremely stable there. Such people can exist in real life, Hay, and it becomes a disempowering mental pattern for younger women xpecially. Vic was only 26, remember....

2. She already had everything, really + her heart was pure, her love was clean&hearty but she always felt so damn undeserving (and afeared) of receiving the same full, sincere affection. She thought everything will deffo be spoilt because of her and she could nevarr touch the goodness + Wayme & Lou will deffo hate her oneday. Thus she had this compulsive need to deny/punish/distance herself while simmultaneously keep helping people. Tho actually perhaps she weremight be deserving after all????? and just mebbe had to clean up/sort herself a bit? and did not need to banish herself from the good.
She always felt things would be spoil because of her. Truth is, Vic just wasn't that important because she was only half of a unit. Even if one is (relatively) more passive, it takes TWO to smash things up in any relationship, no? So thimgs were never totally spoilt because of her,nright? Since neither of them was actually actively smashing anything...it were only ever incomplete WITHOUT her.
Huh :O
I liked her so much but she kept running away across the Shorter Way bridge...and in the end this selfpunmishment+helping vortex was always only costing pieces of herself. Nobody felt/shared the pain except her. Xept mebbe Lou and her mother...
And tho she kept telling herself daily this was worth it...but in the end, the bracelet turned out to be cheap gilt and enamel. Still, she kept insisting it was GOLD. Why? Bcuz she couldn't face the fact that she got goin'/got physically sick/mentally fukked up but in the end it were all for something pointless. Her sacrifice were a deluded one but Vic refused to face this. That small scene was (secretly) a little 💔 heartbreaking...her finding out the bracelet was NOT gold & diamonds and fighting so passionately over its authenticity with Terry. And coming back all fevered and then the parents just abandomed it heedlessly on the kitchen sink.
:|
Such ppl can also exist in real life, Hay...tho in the book it was grossly exaggerated in caricatureish (horrortrope) ways with bats, bleeding eyeballs, zombie phonecalls n all...
Time to stop doing this, Vics of the World!
[horrifically bad pun alert...]
This time, take the LONGER WAY...😂
*grins*

3. Men like Bing & Manx who judged Victoria by her externals...clothes + tatts + way of talking n sh!t...
Butyet notice how both of those jerks were also sexually fixated on her and wanted to entravp her in House of Sleep/Christmasland WHILE simultaenously being judgmental about her and calling her a bimbo+whoer...(just look at this hypocrisy).......such men gimme the pukkefeels bcuz actually she was a creative person + truthfull to only one guy faithful but this were a secret the world didn't see and she never cared to justify. Mmisogynistic men are frighteningly real, Hay, and this also definitely exists + can be found in real life.
(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Note on grammar: Sorry...I bingewatched Downton Abbey and tho it were months ago the "Yorkshireness" still has me in a firm grip so sometimes I substitute were instead of was/is in sentences....haha!!
I never used to before this...😂 I LOVE accents and dialects btw...they really are the music of the world...so your dad will prolly have an enthusiastic audience.
But yea sure 😂 the more deepcountry you go anywhere in the world the thicker it gets. I'm frequently lost too as the WORM folksppl were saying abt some random audiobook...still, I jezzt sit there in my happy ignorance and let the music wash over me and in time the ear gets attuned.
Different if you're trying to listen to a n audiobook for a challenge tho + on a sked. I'm totally with Ghost and Gin on this. Still love me some accents tho,,,,

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "But don't worry if you start questioning me on my credit card details I'll tell you where to stuff it 😂😉"

Hahaha...O this made me happy...now I gots to reply in smarmy Lamora ways!!!
UPON THE CROOKED WARDEN
(view spoiler)[
Please give credit to the artistry and sophisticatioms of my theifhood, darlin'...now why will I want your credit card when you already gave me the most valuable treasure in your kingdom?
Why hit Discount Kitty when you can hit Fort Knox??
Tha'zz just amateur...😂 and we elegant purveyors of the Finer Arts at The Siscouratory only accept the big, fiiiiiiiine thieving jobs in the naem of the Crooked Warden...
*grins*
We're utter claaarsist snobs that way,,,
But were I sitting on a Gringotts vault, inkblue blood, alchemical powaaars 💪 and the surname Ancrath, it would still be worth less than a hundredth of what you gave me...aaaand uggg I seem to have begun babbling, as usual...mixed several different fantasy pantheons...😝

*serious face*
I always like to give as much (or usually a little extra) as I get everywhere, in everything, to everyone (bcuz that's what my grandmother taught me)...
But I just dunno what to do in this case Hay.
You got me!! You got me good.
And I don't want to make a big show or a rattlin' commotion or anything bcuz that'll be just crass...but I do (very quietly) promise this and I'll give it to you outright:
I'll read a standalone for your Pa, and not just this coming January, but every January for the rest of my life.
Whether I'm here or not. Whether it's a buddy read or not. Whether I post abt it on socialmedia or not and really, whether I ever affirm it again or not.
I won't forget.
+ I don't know what life will bring for us but I will be wishing him well every year and I'll put out the good vibe every Jan. Over time that should build up to some BIG mojo, no?
💪💪💪
Its the least I can do as the (fake/virtual) daughter in absentia...😊
Btw that doubles as a Christmas presemt for him...😝
Haaaaahaaa wha'zz all this idealistic prattle abt my good soul n all? When here I just proved that I am both cunning AND cheapo??
*KICK*
😂😂😂
Enough.
Anymore and I will break...this Christmas is SO MUCH already, Hay.
& I'm really feeling it this year........
(hide spoiler)]

Hailee wrote: "The London thread is set up now and I set up a comment marking the chapter/page breakdown."

Thanks for getting us the London thread...I WILL enjoy a schedule. You're really good at this and I think it worked very well for us both on this read, tho I admit I was the one who got a bit thrown off the tracks when we accelerated a bit, so sorry for the lateness.

[Zaara]

Scott wrote: "Zaara wrote: "..."

I really liked it too. Thought about what you said as I read. Didn't bother me much. Chalked it down to editorial intrusions + beginning author anxiousness. Not everyone has SErikson FTW cojones, no? Some writers like to lead readers by the hand...gently down the garden path. Others like to maek them work. Horses for courses. Feel Joe Hill still has some growing into himself to do, but have faith he will.

[Zaara]

I think I overcompensated for my lateness "guilt", Hay...😂😂😂

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "I think I overcompensated for my lateness "guilt", Hay...😂😂😂"

Haha sorry it took me so long to reply. I've been on annual leave and so the only access I had to goodreads was through my phone and I was just honestly to lazy to do it so I've waited until I can go on my computer at work ;-)

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Hey...you know something? Just had a funny flashback: in sixth grade I actually ARRANGED one of those for a school fest..."

That is so cool and honestly impressive that you even thought to organise that sort of thing at 11 years old. (I had to look up what age 6th grade was since I get really confused by these American school years, to me it is year 7 lol). I certainly wouldn't have been organised enough to do that at 11. Hell I don't think I'm organised enough to do it now 😂

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "4. Re Manx ..."

I hadn't actually thought much about HOW (view spoiler)[he died. I was just so glad he was finally dead that the method didn't really compute but you're right that it is quite fitting that he was killed by the collapse of Vic's inscape. After all he was largely responsible for it degeneration in the first place (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "COME ALL YE FAITHFUL

5. You know what?
I actually liked..."

It's true that (view spoiler)[Joe Hill probably did us a favour. I probably would have balled me eyes out if I'd had to read about their final goodbyes like that (would have cut a bit close to home)

I liked the Christmas ornament thing to!! Seemed quite poetic that Lou and Wayne finished it off together as Vic's last request. I also liked being proved right about my "when the angels fall the children come home" prophecy ;-) (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Hahaha...O this made me happy...now I gots to reply in smarmy Lamora ways..."

Ahh gotta love Locke Lamora. I promised myself i'd read the next two books in that series in 2019 and that was yet another goal failed lol. I think I'm going to reread book one before I continue on. Which is no bad thing since I loved that book so much :-)

[Zaara]

Read all these posts. This is just an acknowledgement. Have a nice day :)