NOS4A2 [Oct 24, 2019]

[Hailee]

I'll definitely check out the SparkNotes about that poem. That is why I don't tend to read poetry. Its all gobbledegook to me ;-)

[Hailee]

Finished Disappearances

Well I guess I need to take back what I said about (view spoiler)[Vic's father in my last comment. Turns out he is as bad as her mother. No wonder she ends up on Charlie Manx's radar (hide spoiler)]

But so far I'm definitely not finding this as scary as I feared.

I'm enjoying getting a bit more background on (view spoiler)[ some of the previous children that Manx has kidnapped. I wonder if we'll meet them at a later date in the book. (hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "Iain said it picked up around 30-40% in so I'm guess thats when its gonna get hella scary as well as creepy lol"

heeeeehe did he? Good to have a numerical point at which we can officially freak…THANKS Fin!

Hailee wrote: "I'll definitely check out the SparkNotes about that poem. That is why I don't tend to read poetry. Its all gobbledegook to me ;-)"

I read poetry off and on and privately (most my books are never on my GR shelves) I feel uncomfortable sharing that side with ppl but yea I totally feel ya, Hay. I tried and broke my head on GGMarquez ten zillionfive or six times but he and I…there was no fusion between our souls. Perhaps I have not yet found the right inroad but with him, I gave up on all the three levels (author/mind/man).
Ok back to NOS4A2, breaking it down to its most simplistic denomination…I feel this particular one was chosen as a framing device/plot “hook” because the poem too JUMPS between images…like the rubric of the book…notes go on abit about that.

[Zaara]

Read one more chapter, as per sked. Also, boy am I glad you’re right here with me,,,,
I hadn't refreshed the page and this log is before I read your spoiler but I am caught up with the thread now...

Disappearances
(view spoiler)[
1. “Gingerbread,” he sighed to a pock-scarred investigator who was named Peace but looked more like War.
I liked this sentence, Hay. It was a neat, pithy punch that worked on so many levels…descriptor + small B&tB irony viz. appearances lie + goodcop-badcop twimge + wisearse literary (Tolstoy) riff…and somehow also brings the subject’s sense of weariness/tiredness with the pointless questions and investigation. Reading it, I stoppt and wondered how long Joe worked on that sequence of words. Btw, I also loved those couple sentences about the light in New England but the quote is too long and kinda pouffy to post here. Made me wonder whether Joe Hill has ever been in Ireland, seen that Erin Green…
2. Also I am freaking out a bit that this book will totally ruin Xmas for me…who can eat gimgerbread now with Charlie Manx in their ears? Makes me want to do that kiddie thing….*LALALALALA*
3. Bing is getting more unhinged over the passage of time…he was at first sparing the innocent limo drivers but see…now he is killing them in increasingly brutal ways…
4. Scene between Brat and the Mom is so sad because for the first time the Mom is really trying. But when (ha, bookrelevant pun) the bridge between two people breaks down due to repeated neglect/ carelessness/abuse of feelings it becomes too late to salvage. Soon you stop knowing how to talk to each other (no wonder Brat took off with the Mom putting her back up like that! even if it was wellmeant…), there are no reserves left on either side and even if there is any love left, it becomes a twisted thing hunkering over the relationship’s wounds. Then they only have cruelty, doubts and resentful stabbings left to give each other where there was once love and assurance…see how the kid remembered and used the father’s taunt after so many years. That was UGLY.
Ok so Brat saw the Mother losing control to her “feelings”/disoriented a bit too often to have much respect left but I think (to a great extent) the loss of paremtal authority was also contributed to by the father. Yep, Hailee (re your earlier question) it is now stated outright the father WAS occasionally hitting the Mom. And now he has f.o. with a series of dames and washed his hands off even when his daughter ran away and called him from a payphone! Well, I hope sex with the latest semipermanent bimbette was mindblowing and worth it to have wrecked so much over.
For me this was the most horrifying scene in the book so far because it can easily be REAL. All the freaky ChristmaslandManxBing sh!t you can just say LALALALA over and reassure yourself it was just a scarystory. But this…
5. Ok a small confession, the chapter ended on such a creepy cliffhanger that I read just the first scene of the next chapter too before I clapped my eyes/book shut. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Lol wel I have an even bigger confession. I decided to read Sleigh House in its entirety. Felt appropriate to read a "scary" section on Halloween. I'm a bit tired right now so I'll make a more detailed comment on what I read tomorrow 😴

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "Lol wel I have an even bigger confession. I decided to read Sleigh House in its entirety. Felt appropriate to read a "scary" section on Halloween. I'm a bit tired right now so I'll make a more deta..."

:P
Are we gonna end up kicking the schedule under the bus? Tell me if you wanna race.....

But yeah please post about Sleigh House. I'm actually enjoying the Chapter by Chapter notes. Cool either way...

[Hailee]

Haha I admit this isn't taking me as long to read as I thought it would but I do like the schedule and it really helps to prompt us to make frequent comments. What about we keep the schedule but just condense it slightly?

I was thinking maybe this?

Sleigh House (48 pages)
1st Nov

Interlude: The Spirit of Ecstasy (60 pages)
3rd Nov

Bad Mother (117 pages)
5th Nov

Search Engine (127 pages)
9th Nov

Christmasland (141 pages)
13th Nov

Triumph One Eternal Xmas Eve (33 pages)
17th Nov

Come All Ye Faithful (17 pages)
18th Nov

That has us finishing about 12 days earlier than the original schedule. But if you want to keep to the original that is fine. I have plenty of other things I can be reading inbetween. I jumped ahead today coz it was Halloween and I wanted something a bit creepy to read to mark the day 😱🥳

[Zaara]

I KNEW it!
:D
💪💪💪 amended schedule...
Yeah I always liked the scheduled reads because of the phased commenting. Otherwise you kinda put off posting and then the notes pile up and become a huge unwieldy nighmare.
Just gonna start Sleigh House now.

[Hailee]

Sleigh House


(view spoiler)[The child in the car was seriously creepy. I remember seeing the image of this child in relation to the TV adaptation and it is so accurate to the description in the book:



I have to admire Vic's bravery in this chapter although she kind of brought it on herself by purposefully looking for trouble. Especially since she already knew what kind of man the Wraith was.

And that guy Tom!!! I think that must be one of the most aweful ways to die. I was almost gagging as I read it. And that poor child!!! What a horrific thing to see. God help him if he remembers that, he'll be scarred for life.

This ended on a real cliffhanger. What happened after they knocked Manx out?!!! If I didn't know that it time skips quite a bit in the next section I don't know that I could have resisted carrying on 😂 (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "I KNEW it!
:D
💪💪💪 amended schedule...
Yeah I always liked the scheduled reads because of the phased commenting. Otherwise you kinda put off posting and then the notes pile up and become a huge unw..."

Yeah I know what you mean. I can be really bad at making sure to comment frequently. When we did Sorcery of Thorns I just tried to do it every 5 chapters or so and that seemed to work.

Schedules are great for that. The only trouble can be if someone wants to read a book faster. What we should do for buddy reads is always to have at the very least a commenting schedule. So you can read a book in 2 days if you feel like it but you have to stop at every 3 chapters (for example) to comment on what you've read so far.

[Hailee]

Interlude

(view spoiler)[ When Bing was thinking about the women he had murdered and that line said 'in a way she had been saved as well, before she died: Bing had taught her about love'. And then the description of what happened when she was drugged up. That literally made me shudder. Seriously creepy!!

When Bing was praying we get our first concrete proof that the children were unhappy/scared until Manx does whatever he does to change them. Poor kids!!

Had to laugh when that pigeon shit in his mouth when he asked for a sign if he had done some good. And then stuck his hand on a used condom. Guess he got his answer 😂😂.

I feel sorry for Vic. Lou obviously thinks shes mad and maybe she is a bit but I certainly wouldn't like to be inundated with calls from creepy vampire children!!

So I guess the car has a kind of life force of its own then? I did wonder if that was the case when the car trapped that guys arm and started to drive off in Sleigh House but I didn't know if maybe Manx had some kind automatic starter or romote control that he was controlling the car with. But obviously not.

Can't say I feel to sorry for Hicks. I'm presuming it was Bing who stole Manx's body but I don't know why? Manx can't stay dead since there wouldn't be much of a story if he did but Bing doesn't know there is anything supernatural about Manx at this point in time so what is his aim? Unless it wasn't him but I find that hard to believe... (hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "Hey👍🏻 i'm gonna read the interlude tomorrow at work. Looking forward to your thoughts"

Sorry Hay, so sorry for this late post. I went out to dinner and it kinda stretched and then I was feeling too deliciously lazy to write bookposts so I snooze on the couch talking nonsense and not really watching ole TV reruns...😂
But here is a much nicer apo...

(view spoiler)[
Some popcorn FRESH from Christmasland 😄😜😁:



And pecan pie, omigod am I craving a slice of this pie:



And a snuggly shag cushion to hug during the freakout scenes...uhhh there are two bcuz I immediately took one 😂:



AND also some "Vic goes in denial mode" 😄😄😄 quotes:

“Now it felt like she was being pulled toward something she didn’t want to see, to know about.”

“Vic flinched from the thought, the way she might’ve flinched from a horsefly. There was something wrong with that thought. It had no business in her head, and she didn’t know how it had got there.”
(hide spoiler)]
Excerpt From: Hill, Joe. “Nos4a2.” HarperCollins, iBooks, This material may be protected by copyright

Ok 😂 now the actual logs.

Read your Sleigh House spoiler...yeesh, that image...you got me again...totally didn't expect it in there 😂 haha I love how this became the seasonal jumpscare thread...didn't know there was a TV adaptation (guess what I'm NOT watching next weekend?)
But don't worry, the pic was actually less scary than the one I imagined...mine had crazier milky eyes and fume breath imcluded...

Re your question, (view spoiler)[ Manx ended up as a vegetable in that hospital where we found him in the prologue (remember?) and now the story will shift to a more current timeleine... (hide spoiler)] but by now you read the Interlude so you already figured this out by yourself...😂

Here's my (realtime) log of Sleigh House

(view spoiler)[
1. “He laughed. It was a pony’s whinny, heeeeee-eee!”

I jumped...😂 u know I used to notate a wide 'split the face' grin like this -- at times when I didn't want to start a sentence with an emoticon...guess I'll stop now...😂😜

2. "Vic decided then. Every moment she stood there listening to him was one less moment she had to save herself.”
You know, this girl...she'd do good in some "foreguard" armed forces unit. She has that classic psychology...
She's not too good at coping with real lfife but the best of her comes to the fore when she's in mortal peril...decisive, resourceful, quick. Throw her creative side into the mix and Sarge, you have a 😄😂 winner!

3. Felt that escape thru the laundy chute scene was unnecessarily drawn out, I felt. Technically competent and all but unnecessarily visual on the bodily suffering...*shrugs* horrorstories usually do this...heighten the terror as physical obstacles are the main thing to overcome in escape scenes.

4. O god, she almost fell into that biker dude in sheer relief.
Ok here's a funny thing...this sentence:
“Pickled eggs floated like cow eyeballs in a jar of yellowing fluid on the counter.”
GROSSED ME OUT more than the rest of the chapter put together...the creepy kid, the fire, the prowling kiddy killer...

5. Yeah...poor heroic Tom ...what a way to go!
I wonder if Vic will keep in touch with the widow, she seems to admire her and the minute glimpse we had of her showed a formidable mother figure...hope they do. They'll certainly need each other for "person who understands" reasons...but knowing your denier/blocker out-er Vic I suppose something this sensible would be the first thing she runs from.
(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Interlude

(view spoiler)[

1. So she is (resentfully) living the white trash life with that biker dude (he seems sweet/seems to love her, if there's any pushing away to be done...it will be done by her, I think. Then she will regret it bcuz this is what Vic does...😂 aww hell, she does seem to appreciate him and unable to articulate + AND she had a baby with him...time has passed!

2. Also, the Rockies sound wonderful! Joe Hill...have you noticed...really likes describing "LIGHT" with words. If he were a painter, he'd be an Impressionist.

3. The scene with the churchburning = LITERALLY the last collapse of Bing's conscience...I mean he has these misgivings...he knows the mothers were innocent but his sickness took him over...he's disgusting, if he'd burned down himself in that church building...covered in pigeon sh!t and fungused condoms, after what he did to nine women...but instead that's what the innocent Tom got...😒 but I wonder if Bing's conscience will wake...right now he only regrets "not having one more Mommy and finally going to Christmasland"...I feel nothing for Manx but Bing pains me...because along with the sicko scenes you also get the normal-ish scenes of a pathetic scared lonely loserguy...

4. Isn't Search Engine is the cutest concept? I want one of those books, to keep next to my Chekov paperweight....😂 I love they're out of financial straits but she turned crazed and paranoid about the phones now, the terror is understandable, the way she's being tortured is sick...I'd be out of my mind...the waiting alone....

Ran away as her house burned down???
Oh Vic!

5. What happened to Jumanji car restoration dad?
I want the DAD to live...its such a single DAD thing to do...work so hard for his kid's prom...he put all the love/worry he couldn't say into that car...loved the car restoration scenes btw...poor guy, Bing at the end of that horror ride.
:|
I just hope Bing was too hopped up to just f.o. and just let him go...I hope Bing didn't stop to kill him for witness disposal reasons...Bing's dumb...

Re the question in your Interlude spoiler...I dunno? My theory was Manx came alive in zombie ways and took off hisself...but yours could be right too...that dimbulb kinky mildly necrophiliac security guard (I will never understand this 😂) did hear voices discussing sevrofluroane (wtf i know i stuffed up this spelling)...I literally wanted to kick him when he WENT BACK...thought for sure he'll die...and we'd see a zombie scene but no we didn't...
(hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote:" Sorry Hay, so sorry for this late post. I went out to dinner and it kinda stretched and then I was feeling too deliciously lazy to write bookposts so I snooze on the couch talking nonsense and not really watching ole TV reruns...😂..."

Lol no problem. Sometimes nothing beats lazily vegging out in front of the TV. I hope you had a lovely dinner and although an apology isn't necessary I'll definitely take those cushions they look seriously cozy. Not so sure about the food if its from Christmasland. Not sure I want to take the risk ;-)

Oh my god I totally wasn't intending that picture to be a jump scare... oops 😂. Oh well its good practice for when this book gets seriously scary. I'm not planning to watch it either even though I love Zachary Quinto who is playing Manx.

Zaara wrote: "Re your question, (view spoiler) but by now you read the Interlude so you already figured this out by yourself......"

Yeah thats true although I suppose I was kind of expecting something more as to why he was is his (view spoiler)[vegetable state. One big wack on the head from a fire extinguisher just seems a bit lame... but maybe that's just me. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Interlude...."

Yeah I love the idea of Search Engine. It'd be amazing if that book really existed. (view spoiler)[I'm now kind of curious as to why one of the parts is named search engine... maybe coz Vic is going to have to do some serious detective work to track down her son (hide spoiler)]

Yeah I really hope (view spoiler)[ the car restoration dad lived. Keeping my fingers crossed. Although now Bing has gone full loco I'm not optimistic (hide spoiler)]

Christ (view spoiler)[a zombie Manx didn't even occur to me!! (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Currently reading Bad Mother. Just finished the chapter Boston. I'm writing a few comments now rather than waiting till I have finished it completely so I don't get lazy ;-)

Its funny that I find it easier to be (view spoiler)[ more sympathetic to Vic's failure in the motherhood stakes. Maybe its because i am able to see Vic's perspective on her failures in a way I couldn't with her mother since we never got her POV. I'm glad they sort of made amends with each other before Linda died. I wonder if we'll see anymore of the dad before the end of the book... (hide spoiler)]

I was really hoping to (view spoiler)[see Maggie again but I'm sad that she seems to have not had it very easy in the intervening years. That seems to be a common link to all the people who have these gifts. Ultimately they seem to live unhappy lives. (hide spoiler)]

Bing (view spoiler)[ is just getting creepier and creepier. Sitting around with the bodies of the people he kills to watch tv!!! Is it mental illness or is he just a psycho...

Well I guess we found out what happened to poor Nathan, even worse than just being killed it seems his gender didn't save him from Bing's "attentions". (hide spoiler)]

It's looking more likely that (view spoiler)[ your zombie Manx theory is right on the button. Gross!! And even he thinks Bing is a weirdo for hanging out with corpses. You know you're a loser when the zombie in the rooms turns his nose up at you 😂😂 (hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Hey Duuuuuude (in *Lou voice*) you're right up there in the Thunderhead with Siobhan and I...was thinking Bad Moma will need 2 posts since we are going in detail...

Here's a thing, Hay, did you notice how writing a detailed log is actually making us LESS freaked xcuz we pause to make a note instead of rushing thru on that accelerated THUDdin' panic mode?

I just got to Boston. I'll read it and stop for now.
Bad Mother 1
(view spoiler)[
First of all, how cute is it that Vic & Lou're separated and still so AMICABLE? They're young but they just "fit" and work in mature, comfy ways. It's so nice to see this (whenever it happens) between exes, Hay. None of that rancourangst stuff.

What did you think of those last conversations between Vic and Linda? Do you think they reached at least some measure of understanding? 😞 so much unexplored potential there its heartwrenching.

Poor Mr de Zoet. What did he do wrong except live at that address? Soon I will lose sight of Sicko Bing's remaining "humanity" if he goes on being animal like this...I had similar thoughts as you during that pigeon sh!t scene...dunno if my spoiler there showed that...i was struggling to remember he was human...and scared and eager and yearning and flawed.

Why did Vic behave like that to Maggie?
😳 It is inexplicable...she was ashamed of her friend? But Maggie came with a very timely, relevant warning...
As a character, this kinda puts Vic beyond the pale of moral redemption, no?
When you maltreat the rubric/interface your heart already accepted because so long Vic used those earrings (and Maggie) as her personal charm/warding. How can you deny and accept sh!t at the same time?

The scene was so well written but Vic won't end well, I don't think...I'm really wishing hard on a happy ending for her but I'm losing hope and this makes me sad because she is beautiful in splintered but oh so creative ways. She is just such a Large Maker and Shaper of her reality. Most ppl just let life happen to them but *shrugs* she coulda had it different. (hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Ha...just opened your spoilers...you ALREADY kinda answered my Linda/Vic musings!
😀💪
I'm looking fwd to Standalone Jan...which Rutherford do you think you'll want to run woth?
I have
and I may also have lying around somewhere.

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Hey Duuuuuude (in *Lou voice*) you're right up there in the Thunderhead with Siobhan and I...was thinking Bad Moma will need 2 posts since we are going in detail...

Here's a thing, Hay, did you no..."

Lol great minds think alike 👩🏻‍🎓. Its definitely less scary than I was expecting and part if that could be because we both keep breaking off for note taking but I think a part of it is because at least so far nothing truely scary has happened. Too me the characters are starting to verge on the disgusting rather than the creepy. But I'll save explaining that more till my part 2 comments for Bad Mother. I'll address some of your comments there too since I don't want to risk any spoilers. I just read that back to myself and I think I made it sound more intriguing than it really is 😂. I don't think my points will be that interesting 😅

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Ha...just opened your spoilers...you ALREADY kinda answered my Linda/Vic musings!
😀💪
I'm looking fwd to Standalone Jan...which Rutherford do you think you'll want to run woth?


I want to read all his books eventually but of those four I already own but Sarum was the book that brought Rutherford to my attention and the first book of his I put on my TBR. The only reason I didn't buy that one first was because when I first bought a couple of his books they only had Sarum in mass market paperback and I wanted to wait for a reprint which they recently did in this 30th anniversary edition: .

Anyway long story short I can't decide between London and Sarum. Do you have a preference?

[Hailee]

Bad Mother (From Boston until the end)

Yeah I really like the relationship between (view spoiler)[ Lou and Vic. You can tell that they bother genuinely care and even love each other. Vic seems a lot softer when she's thinking about Lou. (hide spoiler)]

Well what you were saying about Bing (view spoiler)[ and his "humanity" has been officially forgotten on my part once he was speaking to Wayne in the car and saying what he would do yo him which I can't quote coz it'll make me physically gag. So I've finished with Bing. Vic needs to kill him in as painful way as possible as far as I'm concerned. This was what I had in mind when I said that this book isn't scary just disgusting. As much as I was scared of being scared I didn't sign up for this kind of gag inducing content. Hopefully we'll move past this kind of thing soon. (hide spoiler)]

As for Maggie (view spoiler)[ I think Vic reacted so badly to her turning up because she was so tied so closely to what she had convinced herself was just her "mad delusions" that being proven that she actually exist rather than being a figment of her imagination was obviously a shock and in true Vic style goes immediately on the defensive. I expect she'll be a lot more eager to talk to her now Manx has kidnapped Wayne lol. (hide spoiler)]

I'm relieved (view spoiler)[Vic got away since the plans Bing had for her were definitely worse than Manx's (thank god Lou gave her his jacket!!!). Now she'll be free to go after them and find Wayne (and she'll be more on her guard hopefully, I just hope she doesn't go off half-cocked in her desperation🤞🏻) (hide spoiler)]

I laughed when (view spoiler)[ Bing shot Manx's ear off. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy and then fingers crossed Manx will make Bing pay for it. (hide spoiler)]

Poor Wayne. (view spoiler)[ has difficult ordeal in from of him. It would have been better if Vic had actually told him about Manx and what he us capable of doing to children. He might be in a better position of fighting whatever abilities Manx has to destroy childrens humanity. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Also speaking of Rutherford I found out about another author who writes the same kinds of books that I'm planning to check out at some point and thought since Rutherford is on your TBR I'd let you know: James A. Michener. I've written nout a list of a dozen of his books that I like the sound of.

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "Anyway long story short I can't decide between London and Sarum. Do you have a preference?"

Let's do London then, since you already own it. And then you can take a more informed decision on which edition of Sarum you'll buy. Oh wait they already released the 30#th anni one? 😂 yeah get that. Seems to have a much prettier cover than mine, which is the yucky beige and black one... very nineties...god, its been sitting on my shelves for ten years or mebbe more :O
Ah yea Michener, writer of doorstoppers small boulders...😂 yeah sure we can do one together sometime!
Haven't read more of Nos4a2 yet so I'll address your spoilers when I do :)

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Hailee wrote: "Anyway long story short I can't decide between London and Sarum. Do you have a preference?"

Let's do London then, since you already own it. And then you can take a more informed dec..."

Haha I once owned that exact edition of Sarum. I found it at a carboot sale years ago. It was how I found out about the book 😂. However I got rid of it within a few years because I knew I couldn't read it in that form so I promise myself I'd treat myself to a new edition when I found one I liked but like I said when I bought the my (beautiful) copies of London and New York they only had mass market for Sarum so I decided to wait a bit longer and last year my patience paid off!! Lol I'm so shallow 🙈🙈. I really do judge books by their cover 🤭

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Ah yea Michener, writer of doorstoppers small boulders...😂 yeah sure we can do one together sometime..."


Haha yeah like Rutherford he doesn't seem to be able to keep them small either. Sure can, I have the intention (although those can easily get derailed where I'm concerned) to read two Rutherfords and at least one Michener per year now 🤞🏻. And at that rate I have enough of their book to last me several years lol. I'd be happy gor you to join me is as many or as few as you want.

[Hailee]

Search Engine up to end of Bing's Garage.


I wish Manx (view spoiler)[had encouraged Bing to cut out his tongue. It would have done everyone a favour 😂🙊 (hide spoiler)]

Personally I think it was a mistake (view spoiler)[to call the police. They can't do anything useful and all they are now doing is taking up time that Vic could be using to do something more useful like talking to Maggie and finding out what she knows. Not to mention its starting to look like Vic is the police's main suspect so they're not going to let her out of their sight if they can help it. (hide spoiler)]

I'm glad Vic has been able to (view spoiler)[tell Lou everything. I think him seeing that map after she was honest about her "delusions" really helped him believe her. Now at least Vic has someone who can really help rather than police officers who think they're helping but really aren't. (hide spoiler)]

When Wayne is in the car and (view spoiler)[his gran "visits" hims; I think that is the first time anything that is truly supernatural happens that was quite scary. Although thank god she did come. Wayne was already starting to loose himself and her tip of thinking backwards really seemed to help. (hide spoiler)]

The Wraith is seriously creepy. (view spoiler)[I wonder why Manx has so much control over the car, i.e it is an extension of himself but Vic doesn't? Maybe its simply a matter of him not fighting to deny his abilities and the length of time he has been doing it versus Vic who never truely accepted her gift and used it so infrequently. (hide spoiler)]

Poor (view spoiler)[Maggie. It looks like she is on Manx's 'naughty list'. I doubt that is going to go well for her. 😱😱 (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Second half of Search Engine

I knew getting the (view spoiler)[ police involved was a mistake, they were never going to be able to understand and now she's had to go on the run on top of everything else!!! (hide spoiler)]

That scene where Wayne (view spoiler)[ is in the car and he is "playing" with the butterfly with his bloody gums. Urgh!! He didn't once try to think backwards so he either forgot or he is too far gone... I'm starting to worry that even if Vic finds him soon it'll be too late to matter. For all Vic talked of getting him a doctor if he was like the other boy; it probably wouldn't help since a doctor wouldn't understand any more that the police have. (hide spoiler)]

Is it only me who finds the way Manx (view spoiler)[ refers to bathroom habits seriously distrurbing? I wouldn't even use those phrases to a toddler let alone a twelve year old. (hide spoiler)]

Well Bing did say (view spoiler)[ he was 'going to get what was coming to him' and he was right. His death was definitely the highlight of this section to the book. Just a shame it was so quick 😉 (hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

O god, Hailee. I'm still finishing Bad Mother...sorry hon, I think I committed to the accelerated sked without thinking that my 3 hugest BRs were starting...my bad, and I hadnt carried the (my device) evook with me...so didnt have my notes at hand.
Moontide and Thunderhead/Toll started...I think I fell so far behind on Priory that everyone finished...😂😂
And I think I'm gonna have to beg a couple days grace from Anni for Darkdawn.
I know it can get hard to stop with a thriller/horror story once you reach a certain point so if you want to zoom ahead, please do.
I feel bad bcuz:
ALL the books are so excellent I dont want to stop any of them once I get in. So I do one a day + my steady 1 hour of audio/day and cycle thru
+'also bcuz I'm the only one here posting a detailed log. I hope one of the others on the thread comes back to chat with you for a bit (iain might stop by for a bit if he has time and sees this comment/your spoilers) bcuz I hadn my notes at hand right now, really feel bad luv. I'll make it up at the earliest...
:(

Re 2020...I firmly commit to London in January and any one Michener anytime we can sked the BR before Halloween 2020. But I will like to try the author and see if I like his style before committing to many more of his/longterm, I think. And as a sincere apology for my lateness here, you get to choose the Michener too!
😘

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "O god, Hailee. I'm still finishing Bad Mother...sorry hon, I think I committed to the accelerated sked without thinking that my 3 hugest BRs were starting...my bad, and I hadnt carried the (my devi..."

No worrys!! Seriously don't stress about the pace you are reading. I know what thats like and it sucks all the fun out of it. It doesn't really matter if you finish on the 18th as planned or if you're still reading it in April next year. I'll still be around to talk about it with you. I'll make my comments and you can read them at your own pace.

I know all about being behind. I still haven't even started Desert Spear and the buddy read is going to start the next book in a couple of days 🙈🙈. I'm just taking part in several readthons this month and it doesn't fit a lot of the prompts 🤷‍♀️

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Re 2020...I firmly commit to London in January and any one Michener anytime we can sked the BR before Halloween 2020. But I will like to try the author and see if I like his style before committing to many more of his/longterm, I think. And as a sincere apology for my lateness here, you get to choose the Michener too!"


Lets say we'll try to start London within the first week of January shall we?

And yeah I totally get wanting to try an author before committing. I'm the same. I do intend to read all their books but like you it'll only be if I like what I read in book one. But from what I've heard I'm pretty confident 🤞🏻

I'm keeping my plans for 2020 reading quite loose so lets just pencil in a Michener for sometime between March and June for now if that is ok with you? The Michener book that was brought to my attention first was Space (its a suggested group read in the Catching With Classics group I'm in) so I'm most tempted by that but I have quite a long list of ones I like the sound of if that one doesn't appeal to you. But we don't have to make a decision on that yet either. Lets just focus on London for now; at over 1300 pages it's commitment enough 😉

[Zaara]

Right, I'm caught up + Read all your spoilers.
Tried to login yesterday and earlier this am. but the website wouldnt load/let me? Dunno if you faced issues in your region??
And Actually it felt nice I get to go second/respond to you on this section of the book...for me, the "volleying" is the best part of this BR...☺️
+ how thoughtful of you to double nest your spoilers so I will have something to
open at each stage. I'm not doing the double nesting bcuz you already finished and I'm the last on the thread. It will just waste your time clicking twice. But I am spoilering once in case someone else comes along.
First of all...really liked your Maggie observations in Comment 66, yeah true and profound. Though she is not a major part, she is my fave char in the book. I dunno what it is about these ppl whose fires burn too bright...it may be a balancing...they don't fully live IN the world, no? Like that song about Van Gogh. Have you read Agony and the Ecstasy?

Bad Mother 2
(view spoiler)[
Boston/By the Bay:
“Was there any human urge more pitiful—or more intense—than wanting another chance at something?”


The scene where they attend the 4th of July fireworks together...she sits with Lou and tells him ABSOLUTELY everything... + he is really listening and repeating back and showing her he understands by reframing in geek ways...I swear, I felt just like Lou. I wanted them to get back together as a family so much it was like a small fist in the pit of my stomach.
I love they can talk about anything. It's a superpower, having this with someone...I mean Vic & (by extension) the world's judgement can sh!t on her all they want...woman has all the essentials in her relationships + means well and knows how to love right (tho not always painlessly) she had a true friend (Meg), she found real love tho she couldn't really show what she felt and fucked up in her own unworthiness, and ppl who believe in her, she has a beautiful kid and that's real again, she created things and sent them into the world enough to impact (the police force uses her books in their case studies), if she dies...god, why am I so hung on this, if Vic dies...she didn't do too bad...

“I’m surprised you didn’t use your special power to find someone who could tell you there was nothing wrong with you,” Lou said.”

Ok I ❤️ this scene, Hay...even more than the Library, which got supplanted to second place. Don't die guys...please don't go to Chrismasland and die...😣
And of course I goolgled the scene, Airport Hilton, Boston Bay 😍 old red brick walls and the flowering trees...just before the fireworks...but I also included you a fireworks pic, tho it wasn't a full scene in the novel.









Kidnap/Lake scenes:
Pretty much felt the same as you in your spoilers so am not gonna repeat. Yeah...😂😂😂 laughed out loud at how you said about Manx ear: "It couldnt have happened to a nicer guy" WITH A COMPLETE DEADPAN PUNCTUATION...👍👍👍

I only have one addition, this sentence...gimmicky...but so beautiful...see (in Oz) you just have to learn to live with them...they don't bother me...but scenes with BUGS tho...eeeeuurgh...I will never read China Mieville or that Apt series...😂 I premptively decided to stay ignorant on those thimgs!!!

“She pointed at a trembling spiderweb, at least two feet wide, decorated with a thousand gleaming beads of silver and opal and diamond.”

At this point I just thought, huh...beautiful sentence + that sense of trembling and being suspended in time...I love fractals and geometric shapes, basically. Couldnt never understand/abide calculus.

But much later after so much happem...when Hill brought us back to this same image and ✌️💪 riffed on it after Vic crawled out of the lake...I was gosh, impressed.
I know, initially gimmicky but wow! Its like one of those really 😀😄 pickup lines men throw atcha and you know they don't really mean it/it were just a jollying/complimemt. Or in Joe Hill's case the writer's jezzt...flexing his muscle/trying on his wordflirt but in this case the line...uuuuhh... 😉 worked...because later (in a really nice surprise) you saw/knew he really chose every word with deliberation and a sense of proportion to the whole thread of the story. Wow, Joe!

“When she opened her eyes, she was staring at a great, hairy spider suspended in what was left of her web. Most of it hung in gray shreds. Something—a bullet, all the commotion—had torn it apart. Like Vic, it had nothing left of the world it had spun for itself.”

And Hay, I'm really hoping the last line is "foreshadowing" that (Vic will lose alot but) is still alive and safe/hopefully sane at the end.
(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Yay the July 4 pics loaded!!!
💪💪💪

Search Engine
(view spoiler)[
1. Nosferatu=german for vampire. See...I normally love the classical vampire mythos, blood magick and life everlasting and ancient keepers of knowldge and witness nightwalkers etc...but eeeeeeewuuughh the Manx kind of vampire with his child-leaching ways...Wayne's getting eaten (braindead) by the car.
That butterfly scene was CHILLING....
You know the classic psychotic 3 traits no?
Habitual arson (firestarting), killing small animals and sh!t i forgot the third...but serial killers exhibit this triad most often...looks like Wayne's leaching is somehow accelerated.

2. Tabitha Hutter: of couse Hill named her Tabitha...😂😂😂 bet this char gets a kickass saving scene at the end...betcha it wont just be a walk on part.
Boys!!!
I thought it was adorbs. In a totally dorky way. But still, it always tugs the heart when big strong men still love their ma...😘

3. “Happiness will do more for you than any wonder drug the apothecaries can invent!”

Hmmmmm but when you put that Ole Charlie Manx twist on it....even solid goodsense appears sooooo ghastly. Ugh, everything becomes vile when it touches the air around him.
Even concepts like happiness become foul when his senses wrap them. And did you notice how Manx enjoys being cruel to poor pathetic Bing? And really tweaks and hurts him in painful mentally horrific ways, making him cry, continuously holding the carrot and stick and there was never really a carrot anyways bcuz I tell you this. No matter how much Bing destroys himself for this reward, no matter how long he goes on traducing and killling, there is no Christmasland/PromisedLand waiting for him at the end of this road.
He were ever only the tool.....
Best he can hope for is a quick death.

4. Re Wayne...for me...the scene with the phone call (the moral breakdown) was more ghastly than the actual sexual threats (though this and the bathroom innuendo was pretty unspeakable too)...and yeah I see you also froze during the butterfly scene...HATE this zombification. The car is getting him, Hay. And now when you multiply by ALL those kids....😖

5. Won't neeflessly repeat the thoughts about the grandma scene...ditto...hope he remembers that once he gets to Chrismaland.

6. Well 😂 you got your wish, Bing died painful. Hoisted by his own petard, literally and by the time he went...there wasn't much left of him as a person anyway.

That scene before that...tho...was real scary, Hay...🙈 scariest yet...the "realisation"...so cinematically written. She doesn't really notice its him...she goes in the fakely cute Umbridge house...she picks up the phone but the alarms are going, she doesnt even DIAL dammit,
and then it suddenly clicks and she turns around the GasMask Man is waiting and pucnched her in the tummy...I know I won't sleep now. Tho I will power down my iPad and wont just leave it on my bedside table...I will wrap it in a spare wooly scarf and stow it in my cabin baggage for the remaining duration of this BR...ok Sh!t, DUUUUDE I am really freaked now...

7. but still....Bing, he was so crafty and cunning...the way he got Vic into the house, he just knew what buttons to push and she was off balance anyway, desperate and crazed.
But then....when he had to kidnap Wayne....this same Bing was so stupeffied and mindfukked...he needed to write notes on his cuff, are these manic phases or something?
Or is it just that all murderers have an innate torturous/planning sense and ways of manipulating their victims? I thought about this discrepancy for a bit.
I concluded that when he's with MANX (presence) he gets subservient/zombified into a slave almost, and when he's alone his sicko craftiness (his own murderous style) emerges.
(hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "! Lol I'm so shallow 🙈🙈. I really do judge books by their cover..."

No Hay. If you were, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn5 care. And I certainly wouldn't make broadranging plans.
Do you not see this?
Really...you see gotta believe I mean it...when I look at you and say: "Do you not see this?"

Hailee wrote: "...but I have quite a long list of ones I like the sound of if that one doesn't appeal to you. But we don't have to make a decision on that yet either."

March to June is fine, but What're your alternatives/on your Michener longlist, if you don't mind my asking?
And yes to starting London early Jan. Even Jan 1/2 is cool. And I'm reading this for you AND your Dad (tho I'll prolly never met him) so you should make an oldfashioned tracker/sked on A4 paper (preferably in crayon) and put it on his fridge and then he can see how we are both going. Prolly colour in the boxes and add ridiculous comments. Then you can keep the paper. I am very hungry for father figures, Hay.
Never hidden this....
It will be kinda participatory in the New Year good wishes as a joint fahter/daughter project. But perhaps you will think it a dumb idea...and I don't mean to be intrusive/creepy or crass/presumptuous....please dont think that. Like I'm Charlie Manx or something....😅😂
I just really got involved in your periodic updates and started to care about you both.

EDIT -- And I will make one (a manual book tracker) too...and you can see how it goes....😂😂😂

[Zaara]

When you log back in much laeter to fix your terrible spellings that were so bad the sentence became illegible...😂😂😂

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Hailee wrote: "! Lol I'm so shallow 🙈🙈. I really do judge books by their cover..."

No Hay. If you were, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn5 care. And I certainly wouldn't make broadranging plans.
Do yo..."


Aww thank you!! You are literally one of the sweetest people I know. I don't really see my need to get the prettiest edition of books as a bad thing despite my shallow dig at myself. I spend so much time looking at my book shelves so why not try and make it as beautiful as I can (even if its not always as tidy as it should be 😂)

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "March to June is fine, but What're your alternatives/on your Michener longlist, if you don't mind my asking?
And yes to starting London early Jan. Even Jan 1/2 is cool. And I'm reading this for you AND your Dad (tho I'll prolly never met him) so you should make an oldfashioned tracker/sked on A4 paper (preferably in crayon) and put it on his fridge and then he can see how we are both going. Prolly colour in the boxes and add ridiculous ..."

Ok the lets set a tentitive start date of the first and then we can always adjust it if either of us have books we want to finish off in the first few days of the New Year.

I LOVE the tracker idea. This year we actually had a tracker on the fridge noting all the books I had read through the year and all the paintings/drawing he finished as a sort of friendly competition between us. I was thrashing him if you were interested to know ;-). It kind of lost momentum after his accident in August and all the stress and hospital visits but it was a lot of fun til then.

And you're right the London tracker can be our good luck charm to ward off any bad luck that might be heading our way in January!!

EDIT: And I really appreciate that you are interested in my updates on my dads various dramas lol. I'm vaery much hoping there won't be too much to report on in 2020. Lets both keep our fingers crossed on that score 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻.

His leg is healing well now I don't know if I mentioned that recently. it was slow to begin but it seems to be scabbing over in preparation to scar now which is good and the infection is well under control.

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "March to June is fine, but What're your alternatives/on your Michener longlist, if you don't mind my asking?"

Ask and ye shall receive 😂. They are in no particular order:

Michener Longlist

Iberia
Hawaii
Alaska
Poland
Texas
Caribbean
Mexico
The Source
Chesapeake
Centennial
The Covenant

[Hailee]

I'd happily read any of these so if one sticks out at you over 'Space' let me know!!

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Right, I'm caught up + Read all your spoilers.
Tried to login yesterday and earlier this am. but the website wouldnt load/let me? Dunno if you faced issues in your region??
And Actually it felt nic..."

I didn't notice any problem my end but i can't really remember if I was on goodreads much yesterday to be honest since work was rather hectic.

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "I dunno what it is about these ppl whose fires burn too bright...it may be a balancing...they don't fully live IN the world, no? Like that song about Van Gogh. Have you read Agony and the Ecstasy?"

Do you mean this book?: The Agony and the Ecstasy.

No I haven't sound interesting though. I think you are right about it being all about balance. For people who seem just that bit extra in some regards i guess they have to be deficiency in some other aspect... give with one hand he takes away with the other and all that...

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: (view spoiler)[Ok I ❤️ this scene, Hay...even more than the Library, which got supplanted to second place. Don't die guys...please don't go to Chrismasland and die...😣 (hide spoiler)]

You have put into writing one of the things i am getting the most nervous about as i get further in. (view spoiler)[This is the first real horror book I have read in a very very long time so i don't really know what the common cliched tropes are in horror but the main character dying at the end seems like a likely candidate :-( (hide spoiler)]

Love the pictures btw :-)

I also appreciated the spider/spider web imagery. (view spoiler)[At one point the spider was beautifully alive and then dramatically dead. Which is a significant contrast to Manx is both living and dead (at least he seems that way to me), dragging poor Wayne into a life of living death himself. Kind of a juxtaposition. I don't know if Joe Hill meant that when he was writing it though. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Yay the July 4 pics loaded!!!
💪💪💪

Search Engine [spoilers removed]"

Yes I totally agree (view spoiler)[the "realisation" scene seemed to taken straight of the screen of a classic horror flick. A good reason why I never watch them 😂

It was weird how good an actor he was in comparison with his performance with Wayne. i think that is why it took me a while before i realised the man shouting at Vic about calling the police was actually Bing rather than a genuinely concerned neighbour.

You are probably right in that Manx overshadows Bing's own dominant evil traits just like Manx and his evil car subsumes the humanity in children once he gets his hands on them. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Christmasland until the end of Laconia

Interesting to get more of (view spoiler)[Manx's backstory. It kind of confirmed how I imagined things went down. And his daughters were the first ones to Christmasland. I think I mentioned in a previous comment how they must have been there for quite a while. If they have been there since silent movies existed then they I was definitely right on that score. I wondered if the length of time a child is there impacts how vicious they are on whether once they have finished their journey in the car they have already reached saturation point in the viciousness stakes. (hide spoiler)]

Maggie and Vic's conversation (view spoiler)[was probably the most interesting part of the book yet in my opinion. The car transforming the children into Manx's view of innocence and happiness. And how their "knives" cut something from them... its all about balance just like you said Zaara, always a price to pay. (hide spoiler)]

I couldn't help flinching (view spoiler)[when she burned herself with the cigarette. She must be desperate to communicate with people if she is doing that to herself. I love that Vic is so determined to help her once she has dealt with Manx. I just hope she gets the chance. (hide spoiler)]

I also hadn't connected the fact (view spoiler)[that Manx's life force was tied to the car. That it was poor Nathan's renovation of the Wraith that gave Manx his zombie power!!! It does make a lot of sense though. (hide spoiler)]

Speaking of (view spoiler)[Nathan... poor poor guy. If only he had left that car well enough alone. And that note. Closest I've come to tears while reading this book. I'm glad his daughter will get some answers at least and won't waste years wondering. (hide spoiler)]

One thing has been playing on my mind for a while. (view spoiler)[Does it seem to you that a romance between Lou and Hutter is being established? All that supergirl/Velma stuff and then him not letting go of her hand. (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Second half of Christmasland

I could see it coming a mile away but (view spoiler)[ I'm still sad that Manx succeeded in killing Maggie. (hide spoiler)]

It's quite sweet that (view spoiler)[Maggie has a crush on Vic. I couldn't see them working out though but I think they would have been a really good influence on each other. (hide spoiler)]

I wish that Maggie had (view spoiler)[woken Vic to help her with the "vandal". Things could have worked out so differently if Vic could have got to Wayne at this point instead of having to wait until they reach Christmasland. I'm glad Wayne is still fighting it, even if he isn't being too successful at the moment. It gives me hope that he'll be OK when Vic (hopefully) eventually saves him. (hide spoiler)]

The phrase (view spoiler)['God Burned Alive, Only Devils Now' seems to be popping up really frequently. Is it supposed to have some kind of meaning? (hide spoiler)]

I'm pretty sure I know what (view spoiler)[the clue 'When Angels Fall, The Children Come Home' means. I don't know if that means its kind of obvious. Although it'll be quite funny if I've got it completely wrong lol. (hide spoiler)]

When Vic arrives at (view spoiler)[her dad's house and makes her peace with him and also looks at Lou and thinks about how happy she'd be if he found someone who derved him kinds of gives the feeling that she making her peace with death and saying her goodbyes. I really hope I'm wrong! (hide spoiler)]

I hate (view spoiler)[that Daltry guy!!! I hope he loses his job for shooting Vic's father. Vic was just starting to get through to Hutter before her stuck his nose in. (hide spoiler)]

That is something I didn't really connect together (view spoiler)[Vi's sanity and the bats. When some escape a part of her is lost. Kind of obvious now I think about it... (hide spoiler)]

Got to admit I'm surprised (view spoiler)[we only got to Christmasland with about 50 pages of the book left. Given the name of this section I'd imaged we'd spend the majority of it in Christmasland. (hide spoiler)]

[Zaara]

Prolly the most emotionally wrenching chapter yet. Tho now its only sixty odd pages to the end of the book, after this one I was so wrung out I had to stop and put it away. I had thought I was man enough 💪💪 to get thru to the end but nope!

Christmasland FULL
First of all, re chapter names...don't you think its odd/done on purpose that Joe Hill did this:
(view spoiler)[ the chapter named Christmasland is all about the chasing all around the place on the Triumph and the chapter actually set in that ghastly place is (somehow invertedly) named TRIUMPH? (hide spoiler)]

Grammy Lindy:
(view spoiler)[ When Wayne pushed her put of the car...
Why do we hate the ppl when they tell us the truth, Hay?
Is it because it pushes us out of our comfort zone and we can't face that?
The evil car really is getting him, huh?
Look how he keeps giving himself excuses to hate her. Its like he's working himself UP...giving himself excuses to hate her...be cruel to her...but he's a remarkably clear
-thinking child + very self-aware...inside he knows something's wrong and can't deny...

A normal person, though, wouldn’t laugh at his kidnapper’s choice of words.
AND
“Mom,” he said suddenly. “I think I’m sick, Mom. I think I’m all poisoned inside.”
(hide spoiler)]

Manx backstory:
(view spoiler)[
Yep, I agree abt what you said re Manx backstory. Its sad, yes, about Manx's daughters and how long they've been in torment. Let's see how that develops. Will they have enough memory of their mother left after so long spent zombiefied?
😞 prolly not. They're just cruel punctuation marks to Manx' persona and now became extensions to him, I'd reckon.

But what I was most worrying abt in these sections (prolly because it is closer/nearer to the reader's heart) is...how Manx states his poisoned misogynistic sh!t about men & women (are always manipulating men)....in such a reasonable, mature adult "makes me sick" tone of voice...bcuz Manx sure knows how to destroy ppl and twist them inside...I worry/wonder if Wayne will carry this germ inside him in the later years...whether the shadow of Manx will kill any hope he could have of a successful relationship. Whether he will be as fuckedup as poor Vic.

On the other hand, Hailee...look at Vic. Her thoughts/attitude about the opposite sex are the good and clean NONtwisted ones, but phrased/presented in kinda crass ways:

“Men, she thought, were one of the world’s few sure comforts, like a fire on a cold October night, like cocoa, like broken-in slippers. Their clumsy affections, their bristly faces, and their willingness to do what needed to be done—cook an omelet, change lightbulbs, make with hugging—sometimes almost made being a woman fun.”

Despite her supershabby facade, Vic actually is quite sorted out on the "fundamental decency of a human being" front...
(hide spoiler)]

Darlin' you are, Hay! But I caught you...I see how you are gently trying to prepare/steel me for Vic...yeap it increasimgly does look like our joint hearts are gonna be broken in the next chapter, no??
Damn gal...I dunno what I'll do when I read SA3 if Oathbringer's end is what I fear it must be...

Nathan...yeah that scene got me too....
(view spoiler)[
The last letter to his daughter. Yeah, you say you were almost crying...I was an ugly bawling mess earlier today,Hay...tho only for a short while...I feel no shame in admitting...i really love letters + the whole Dad-daughter thing.......
But this was so considerate of Vic...imagine her general mental fuckedupness...the tearing hurry/worry/anxiety/pain from unattended injuries/adrenaline from chasing/being chased and still to make the call about Nathan + to eb CAREFUL not to cry on the letter. Wow, Vic...she's always feeling so undeserving/always so surprised that her "3 boys" love her. But its easy to see why.

Although...I was (initially) IRRITATED with Vic when she picked up the phone to taunt Manx about Bing's death. Why this bravado, Vic? Why this machisma? Why not just quietly get him and try to save your ass too?
But then...if she hadn't picked up the call, she wouldn't have spoken to Wayne...heard his voice...wouldn't have been able to tell him to hang in there...
(hide spoiler)]

Maggie:
(view spoiler)[
Maggie...💔 poor kid...at least now some peace...what a scene! Bastard...this BASTARD must pay...for all this...he can't go like Amaram....he just can't.
Make him hurt, Lou Joe!
Glad the girls got to meet and have that suspended time. Most people don't, you know. Its sad but most ppl never say the things which are uncomfortable and (so) important things are lost bcuz of this.

I actually wanted to talk to you about this...about the way that the psychology of selfharm is portrayed here...there are so many levels...what were your thougdid you think of this, Hay?
And god, the King men...they have such an intimate knowledge of those levels!
And some of those Wayne getting zombified/Lou internally scrutinising himself scenes read almost like they actually were about different kinds of addiction/degrees of self harm...from mild to implosive.

For example:

1. Happiness vs Amusement + why Xmasland is an amusement park:
“He doesn't have happiness anymore. Only amusement. It’s an idea of endless fun, endless youth, dressed up in a form..."
= Jaded consumerism, shopping addiction. Unhappy housewives going bonkers on Rodeo Drive. Unfulfilled men screwing their secys....

2. “Because he couldn’t anymore. Because he didn’t know he was supposed to. Or he knew but couldn’t act on it.”

Ha! Why every new year's "I'll quit smoking for my kids" resolutions fails!

AND
3. then this heartbreaking...from a child...look how hard he tried to get her to RUN...

“!myself to on hold can’t I”

The syntax...its literally reads like someone unable to help themselves and crying for help...falling backwards into a freefall/nosedive...this can be any kind of addiction Hay.
Not being able to stop...and knowing you can't...drugs...or gambling...its a headrush but at the same time, you KNOW you"re falling off a cliff.
Like that Last Knit video on YouTube...
:(
+
“She seemed almost to have a perverse impulse to make anyone who cared about her regret it, to find the thing that would most appall those people and then do that until they had to run away..."

Huh! A dude told this once. He was pissed off and he toldme I am terrified of being liked. Dunno what this even means...😂😂😂 most ppl think I love the attention.
(hide spoiler)]

OPEN AFTER FINISHING CHAPTER: Lou and Vic
(view spoiler)[farewell scene:
Were you thinking "horcrux" too? I was and I jumped when Vic said it. I expected the car to some extent...it was too much an extension of Manx and containing all his powers for it not to be significant. But I want HIM that asshüle to be beat up! Not a beautiful RollsRoyce.

O these two! I love how sensitized they are to each other. I love how they can hear each other unspoken. I love how they just count on and never doubt. Most of all, I love how they take it for a fact that each will sacrifice themselves for the other. When she handcuffed him to a tree and kissed him because she knew she had to save him and then she f.o. all alone.
And when he threw himself over her so the bike would roll over him not her and then STAYED UP to wrap bombs and timers with ductape. Who says they are broken when there is so much??
This was it, no? This was their goodbye. Vic will now die in that horrorpark alone...she'll never get to see him...😣
(hide spoiler)]

Reply to youR tabitha & Lou question:
Huh...
(view spoiler)[
:O
What a theory! I never even noticed the ScoobyDoo thing...your post was actually kind of a face wallop for me. I really was so caught up in Tabitha being Joe Hill's mother's name + char holding the mother energy for everyone in the novel that I never noticed any of these clues...I blocked that this may even happem....I dunno, its still hard for me to see that handholding as more than a medical/compassionate/clinical act...terribad at guessing romantic pairings and never see the hints and clues until they ARE a face wallop, like KAPOW.
But now that you say...I remember...there was also that throwaway line about how the guys Tabitha dates never really get her...huh...😒 yeah...WORD, sister!
Lou certainly deserves some stable happiness...but after the glittering creative fuckedupness of Vic, why will he even look at anyone else?
Well...if you must know...for Lou I'd want an allrounded happiness, Hay...someone plumbspang in the middle of that Tabitha and Vic combo. Kinda fiery, kinda soothing, kinda fuckedup but mostly sorted, kinda creative, kinda stable, kinda kinky, kinda mothermode.
(hide spoiler)]
Please post for the rest of the chapter...damn, I wrote this huge essay and now I can't wait for your post!

[Zaara]

Hailee wrote: "I LOVE the tracker idea. This year we actually had a tracker on the fridge noting all the books I had read through the year and all the paintings/drawing he finished as a sort of friendly competition between us. I was thrashing him if you were interested to know ;-)"

See there, now...I dunno how I flashed on that...😂
WoooWoo....I earned a small spot on Hailee's fridge...well, its deffo not the same as actually having a Dad but 💪 I'll take what I can get!
Thank you Hay. Thanks for opening your heart fridge magnet a little to me...I'll deffoo share mine too...haha 😂 and also, dunno if I ever said but North and South was one of my favourite BRs of 2018 too.

Ohk random nonplot quote from the book:

“Places up north had hitching posts out front sometimes, if they wanted to look rustic, but when you got out west, you sometimes saw piles of dry horseshit not far from posts like that; that was how you knew you were back in cowboy country.”
Excerpt From: Hill, Joe. “Nos4a2.” HarperCollins, iBooks, This material may be protected by copyright.

I laughed out loud...😂😂😂 bcuz these lines were so very Lonesome Dove...
Now that was SOME book, Hay...since you like the Rutherford/Michener type stuff.

Re Michener....I only asked for your longlist bcuz I just finished Dune but knows what mood we will jointly be in by the time the BR rolls around?

[Zaara]

Aiieeuh...just noticed your UPDATED Xmasland 2 log. Hadnt seen any of those spoilers yet. Will opem and get bk....

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Christmasland FULL
First of all, re chapter names......."

In the post that you haven't had chance to read yet I mentioned (view spoiler)[how weird it was that there was no time in Christmasland in the Christmasland chapter but I didn't connect the "swapping" thing. Nice catch. It is a bit weird. I was sort of accociating the chapter name with what Maggue saw in the scrabble tiles as she was dying... Vic usingvthe Triumph to well... triumph against Manx (I hope)

I dunno why we always end up hating/blaming the people closest. Maybe because when the shit really hits the fan they are the only people around to blame. All the others have made themselves scarce!! (hide spoiler)]

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "Darlin' you are, Hay! But I caught you...I see how you are gently trying to prepare/steel me for Vic...yeap it increasimgly does look like our joint hearts are gonna be broken in the next chapter, no?? 
Damn gal...I dunno what I'll do when I read SA3 if Oathbringer's end is what I fear it must be..."

Haha yep you caught me. 🙈 It seems though that Joe Hill is giving out so many clues to it that he's trying to do the same thing for his readers... either that or he's throwing us a false trail so we'll be really relieved when the worse doesn't happen. Not holding my breath on that one though 😰

[Hailee]

Zaara wrote: "I actually wanted to talk to you about this...(view spoiler)[about the way that the psychology of selfharm is portrayed here...there are so many levels...what were your thougdid you think of this, Hay?" (hide spoiler)]

I'm fortunate in the fact (view spoiler)[that I have no experience of self harm, either myself or anyone (to my knowledge) that I know so I won't pretend to be in a position to really comment. However I do think that Joe Hill seems to write well on a lot of psychological issues and do it well as far as I can see. He either researched it really well or he has personal experience himself. (hide spoiler)]