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Hmmm...My brother in law is an actor. He submits to every part that he could possibly, by any stretch of the imagination, fit. He'll key in on certain key words like "male."
Seriously.
They do this, he says, because sometimes the directors/producers will change their conception of the character because you do such a good job. If you get your foot in the door, you might make an impression.
Maybe they're trying something like that here? "Maybe if he/she likes the cover/blurb/title/awesomeness, they'll crack open the sample. Then they might like what they see, and read/buy the book!"
I don't know, but that's my assessment.
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It seems like they would do better if they tried to build their buzz in a supportive environment with people who want such recommendations and are likely to know people who read similar things. It's feels like a better shot for word of mouth because if the reader likes you, they might be a member of a group with similar interests.
It just seems short sighted hoping people will make an off-chance exception or have eclectic reading tastes.
Too much effort? I guess it's a hazard of the job, randomly PM'ing strangers in hopes of nabbing that one rare new reader. How much time are you willing to spend on researching every user online just to see if they would be interested in your book?Of course, the easy answer is, just don't do it. Why people do it? I'm not sure, to be honest. In the 5+ years I've had this GR account, it's something I've seen since day one. It's nothing new. Still not cool, but definitely not new.
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Terms like "target marketing" make a lot of writers sick, like me. And yet, writers are no more immune to marketing than anyone else. When I used to visit bookstores, you think I went to the Self-Help Section? Would my Mom pop by History? Writers do everyone a world of good accepting the reality that we're all markets.
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First things first, I don't really consider myself "an author" because I've basically got just three short stories published.Anyway, I believe that as long as you don't know said person is AGAINST the genre, it isn't a bad idea of trying to talk them into something different. There are a lot of people who just didn't have the opportunity of reading some kind of books and if you're able to get them curious, you may score.
I've come across a number of really good books that way - not reading similar things before because I haven't known any but I've found some review or recommendation that intrigued me good enough to give it a try.
But, basically, I'm all against random requests to check out a book - doesn't matter what book. If I were to ask anybody personally, I'd go with people I know or at least acquainted (is it even a word?) in any way. Any other method looks like kind of that call center thingy and is an immediate turn off for me. Even if the book would hit my taste.
Jacek wrote: "First things first, I don't really consider myself "an author" because I've basically got just three short stories published.Anyway, I believe that as long as you don't know said person is AGAINST..."
Right, and if you are really serious about promotion and doing it yourself, you have to send out HUNDREDS of review requests to get any significant number of bites anyway. This means that an author might spend one minute or less on your blog just to skim your review guidelines, get your e-mail address/contact info, and fire off a review request before moving on to the next blog.
Funny you mention that. The only genres I never read and probably never will are poetry and memoirs. Yet, lately, I keep getting requests for memoirs. I wonder if it is because I mentioned the genre, my name pops up when they do a search? I had an author ask me to read his book because he wanted to have the opinion of a woman. That was his only criterion. So to answer your question, maybe they want opinions from people who wouldn't read that genre normally? Or, maybe they hope we'll say yes, and stamped the book a 4 or 5 stars without reading it.
David wrote: Right, and if you are really serious about promotion and doing it yourself, you have to send out HUNDREDS of review requests to get any significant number of bites anyway. This means that an author might spend one minute or less on your blog just to skim your review guidelines, get your e-mail address/contact info, and fire off a review request before moving on to the next blog. What I mean is - if I was going to publish a legit book, I'd definitely go for review requests. Just I'd rather pick a group (like, say, this one) and post them there than go for single persons I have never come across before. The former is acceptable for me (of course if the group was anyhow related to the genre or whatever), the latter - definitely not.
I guess I've been lucky in that I've only had a few authors approach me and they were ones who wrote in my genre. I can see posting a request for readers in a forum, but a PM seems rather bold. I'd be afraid of a bad review based solely on the inconvenience factor of receiving 'spam' from an author. But then again, some folks are bold.
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I work in market research (and am hiding in a back office to type this cause I'm addicted to the thread) and gotta say quality is emphasized more than quantity. Like we can either call 1000 people from the phone book and hope they're interested/fit what we want for 10 spots OR send out a simple survey and pre-qualify people who are more likely to fit and maybe fill a study in a couple dozen phone calls.
That's why I just think authors reaching out to responsive people who already like that sort of thing would be less a time waster than hoping to broaden a readers horizon :)
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I always felt as though sometimes it's like scraping the bottom of the barrel. they've tried to get the promotions to those that are in their demographic. but when that's been exhausted, what else is there to do but have hope that maybe some random person will accept?
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I wonder if it's somewhat ego based at times? Like they want to see their book as so unlike anything out there (odds unlikely) that they feel they "invented" a genre and have to invite people to discover it? Or that they basically did write something heavily influenced by a popular work - say Fifty Shades - but feel awkward acknowledging that similarity to themselves or others?
I also shouldn't be here, but I can't resist.In one job I had where I worked at an advertising company, we designed ads for local publications. Newspapers, yellow pages, business directories, etc. Not the most exciting stuff, but hey, it paid.
Each and everytime we'd get a client who wanted to pay for a large number of very small ads placed in every publication, the following year, the client would renew maybe one small ad, if they renewed at all. Because, despite our warnings, all those paid crappy ads that were too small to even see the phone number, failed within a year. Every damn time.
Quality over quantity.
One full page ad, well designed and clear, renewed every year, because it never failed.
With the clients who had too many tiny ads, it was always the case of lacking confidence, and then get mad at the advertising company for not fulfilling their dream.
I have a point. Really.
I feel the bottom line is it's best to let the products speak for themselves. When that lack of confidence is speaking for the products, that's all the audience will see.
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Jacek wrote: "What I mean is - if I was going to publish a legit book, I'd definitely go for review requests. Just I'd rather pick a group (like, say, this one) and post them there than go for single persons I have never come across before."Well I definitely see hitting up your friends up first,but JUST query people you know doesn't give you nearly enough exposure to really get your title out there. Now, I DO NOT advise just randomly sending requests to anyone and everyone you randomly come across on GR, but especially if your goal is to get your book in front of as many eyes as possible, you have to deal in volume. If someone has a review site, is accepting requests, and reads your genre, it never hurts to ask.
Courtney wrote: "quality is emphasized more than quantity"True, but ideally you want both - targeting a whole lot of the right people.
Courtney wrote: "Seriously GG - I share your weird karma when it comes to "not your genre - wanna copy?""haha well sorry for saying that but I'm rather glad I'm not the only one with that problem. :P
I think sending PM with R&R requests to people who don't read your genre is like sending free haircut deals to bald people. It makes no sense no matter how you look at it.
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You know, ask everyone with hair if they might be interested before hoping some might let you shine their skull :)
G.G. wrote: "I think sending PM with R&R requests to people who don't read your genre is like sending free haircut deals to bald people."This is true, but I would be willing to bet money that the vast majority of these random requests are from authors who don't have any experience marketing their work and really don't quite know where to begin. I think for most self-published or small-publisher authors who have never done marketing before, there's a pretty sharp learning curve. Eventually most of them either figure it out or quit, but there's always ten more neophytes right behind them to take their place.
Ignorance isn't really an answer to Courtney's question."Why do authors offer books to people who have NO INTEREST in the genre they write in?
Though I'm getting the impression from eveyone this might yet another internet mystery and no one really knows why exactly. It just happens.
I just received new PM recs this morning for books I'll never have any interest in. It's enough to make me feel like doing a rendition of the Elephant Man. "I'm a humn being!"
Whatever.
Interesting discussion... I clicked on this because I'm considering doing exactly what the discussion talks about (or rather, contacting readers who are interested in the genre my book's in, and telling them why I thought they might be interested in). Do you guys think that would work, or would any pm's from a strange author you've never met feel like a turn-off?
If I haven't interacted with an author, I wouldn't want them to randomly message me. Post it, sure, but DMs, no. If I knew the author at all, had spoken/replied to their comments, discussed writing, whatever, then I wouldn't feel like it was an intrusion.
Valerie, complete turn off, sorry. It's best to interact with people first.
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If someone hypothetically sent me a PM like:
"Hi there. I'm an author trying to get reviews for a book I wrote. It's a little something like TITLE, which I noticed you read. If you're interested in that genre, I would love to give you a copy of my book to read so I can get opinions from fans of such books. If you're busy with other books or not interested, I completely respect that and thank you so much for your time".
Like no link to their book, no blurb, just a query if I'm the least bit interested in that sort if thing and - if I am - I'll ask for more info. It's about finding readers then, not shoving a book in somebody's face.
My opinion though :)
Courtney--I agree that your suggested PM wouldn't be so obtrusive. I would be okay with that.
Yeah, that was about what I had in mind (although, I'll admit, you phrased it much better than I probably would :) ). If that was the prompt, I'm curious how many people would still see it as a turn off. I don't mind people deleting the message without replying, but what I really want to avoid is anyone swearing not to read anything I've written.
I would add, try not to make it sound like you've stalked the person's profile. I don't feel comfortable with paying anyone for stalking. I'm more inclined to give a PM a chance if I see, "Hi, we chatted in Fringe Fiction yesterday and..." Etc, etc, just as an example. If I see, "Hi, I read all your shelves on GR and..." It will make me cringe.
Valerie wrote: "Interesting discussion... I clicked on this because I'm considering doing exactly what the discussion talks about (or rather, contacting readers who are interested in the genre my book's in, and te..."I don't think it hurts anything to ask IF they have a book review blog AND they are currently accepting submissions. Most blogs will have a button to look at the reviewers preferences and requirements for review. Offer a free review copy. Try as best you can to follow their instructions and send a formal query letter with cover art, contact information, and author platform links (webpage, goodreads page, twitter, facebook, etc.), but DO NOT send a review copy until the reviewer has requested one. Also expect a high rejection rate, but don't take it personally. If one out of ten requests end up asking for a review copy of your book then you are doing well.
Lily, haha, I'll try to avoid something like that. If Courtney's alright with it, I'll probably stick pretty close to what she wrote.David, I'm sorry, I should have specified. I meant more in terms of contacting people here on Goodreads, including those without review blogs, and simply asking if they might want to read my novel.
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Just an observation and an offer. If anyone wonders how you found them, probably it's just "people who read and reviewed BLANK" doesn't make it sound like you were targeting them or prying into their personal lives.
I think my turn off is people pitching a book without asking if I'm interested. Thats not how people sell things in stores - they ask if they can help you find something usually :p
You know, a store is an interesting comparison. If I walk into a grocery store, I'm asked, is there anything we can help you with? Or something like that. And it's already understood I'm in a grocery store, I would only be interested in help for grocery items.It's not so obvious on a website like GR which includes every genre from the history of publishing.
I would suggest sticking with groups that specialize in your genre, or folders within groups, so that it can be already understood. And not random.
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Ah, yeah, it's not easy being a genius and coming up with something totally original ;)
Valerie wrote: "I meant more in terms of contacting people here on Goodreads, including those without review blogs, and simply asking if they might want to read my novel. "Any review is great, but just remember bloggers have audiences - sometimes a few dozen, sometimes several thousand, and if they like your book, it is likely that the readers of their blog will go check it out too.
Lily and Courtney, haha, I know the feeling xD And my book's a YA Drama, so it shouldn't be that hard... But somehow YA fiction gets pigeon-holed into either romance or dystopian, or both. Amazon doesn't even have a drama category for that age group.David, that's a good point. I'm definitely submitting to as many blog-based reviewers as I can :) Also think there might be something to be said for reviews on Goodreads and Amazon (one trend I've noticed is 100+ review novels tend to sell a lot better).
Valerie wrote: "...there might be something to be said for reviews on Goodreads on Amazon..."Definitely. Most bloggers will post the same review to one or the other or both in addition to on their own blogs. At least that has been my experience.
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Meh, such is the life. We only see all the hard work and break our fingers keeping them crossed. The public sees the magic and demand, when's the next book?!?!
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And - to maybe tie that into the topic - people might consider outside sources for readers? Maybe they would be more flattered/less jaded about a free book in exchange for an honest review.
I've often wondered about that. Why limit yourself to PMs on a book website? Why not expand and meet with people who love the kind of music you used as inspiration while writing? As an example. There are so many possibilities. From my perspective, using book websites only is getting to be a rather cluttered tactic.I remember meeting an author on GR a long time ago. She got her start by handing out free books in horse lover groups, because the main character is horse trainer. It was a category romance novel. She didn't even bother with groups dedicated to that genre.
Why do authors offer books to people who have NO INTEREST in the genre they write in?
I always get random requests for contemporary romance and harrowing slice of life. Nothing about my previously read books would imply I care to read anything in these genres.
I'm not that author's demographic, I'm not likely to make an exception, they are wasting a kind offer on me and whatever time they have aside for promoting.
What I wonder, I guess, why authors don't figure out what resemblance their work has to another, more established book and approach fans of that.
Is your book something fans of Neil Gaiman's Coraline would enjoy? See who on GR read that and had a positive reaction.
Maybe they'll take an author up on that because they love such books. It's better than asking someone who hates "creepy" stories or doesn't read children/YA books.
What do you guys think? Why aren't authors more genre savvy with book promotions?