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Les Misérables
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Les Miserables - Week 04
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For me the brilliance of this section is in how Hugo brings the reader inside JVJ”s turmoil as he weighs whether or not to reveal himself to save Champmatheiu. We, as readers, agonize over these issues of justice and morality which are by no means black or white. I have never faced such a decision as JVJ’s so I cannot in truth say what I would do, it would me meaningless conjecture. For JVJ, he realizes that all his future good work would be tainted by a decision to let Champmatheiu suffer for JVJ’s crimes. This was not Myriel’s intention for JVJ. In order to truly accomplish a divine sense of good, he must first maintain the purity of his soul. Even if it means he does so in the galleys. Javert is just as committed to the purity of his own soul. He has pledged himself to truth and justice as it is defined by society and its authorities. If he fails, he has tainted his work. In believing Madeleine to be JVJ and trying to bring him to justice, he has committed a sin in his eyes. He has accused and almost condemned an innocent man. He expects and demands the same severity of consequence for himself, not the compassion Madeleine extends. For Javert, such compassion subverts the rules of authority which a society requires to exist and flourish.
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The section where everything goes wrong on the way to the trial reminded me of time travel books where the hero is prevented from changing the past, such as 11/22/63. Just like Fantine with the Thenardiers, JVJ sees all the episodes that delay or help him as messages from God.
I was desperate by Madeleine's burden. I don't want him in prison. We know that he is a good person. I am worried about the next week. About what could happen to him.
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It's interesting that they just let him walk away. If Javert had been there, I'm sure he would have been clapped into irons immediately. I didn't remember exactly what happened, so I had a vision of him admitting his identity, then knocking down anyone in his way in order to escape. It's ironic that as the mayor, he is respected, ushered in, listened to, given all the benefit of the doubt he never had as an unknown criminal.
Robin wrote: "Rafael wrote: "I was desperate by Madeleine's burden. I don't want him in prison. We know that he is a good person. I am worried about the next week. About what could happen to him."It's interest..."
You are right. If javert was there now Madeleine would be in the prison. I was worried also because of Cosette. He needs to reach her to save her.
Book 6I don't understand why JVj would be on trial at all... Bienvenue didn't bring any charges against him for the stolen silver, is the case for the stolen 40sous from the young boy really the impetus for Javert's interest in his case?
It's one thing to respect authority, even in the manner in which Javert appears to believe/enforce it; but, there seems to be more to it in regards to JVj's case, something very unnatural. In one respect I see Javert not only wanting to skin JVj but then walk around wearing him; and on the other, Javert hates the idea of JVj's ability to transform into somebody, a successful somebody, other than a criminal because he finds criminals to be irredeemable. There's something to be said about men who like to see better men fall into oblivion.
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And yes, the tiny theft of 1 coin from the boy is the excuse for locking up JVJ for the rest of his life. Seems unbelievable, but so do stories of people on parole in the US today. They can be sent back to prison for very minor lapses, being in the wrong place or with the wrong people, missing an appointment, etc., even without a new crime.
I suppose there's some crime in having a false identity, not showing his yellow passport, etc. when he came to town.
Robin wrote: "There is a creepy vibe to Javert's obsession with JVJ. Some interpretations see a homoerotic side. I think Ami's idea is good, that Javert sees JVJ as a version of who he could have been on the bad..."Some interpretations see a homoerotic side
I felt this too, but thought it too on the nose... you know, Captain Randall/James Fraseresque, but the sinister side of it; The want, the carnal need to break someone both spiritually and physically into submission.
And yes, the tiny theft of 1 coin from the boy is the excuse for locking up JVJ for the rest of his life.
Got it, thank you! I also failed to realize, the yellow passport was not made available to local authorities. Of course, why would it be if JVj was under disguise. What a mess.
That was a tough decision to make, risk going to jail for someone or continue living. I liked how MM (JvJ) was fighting with himself in inner turmoil. I would have to say that MM's character has changed greatly since we last saw him as JVJ. He went through a metamorphosis. I liked reading about how everyone perceived Champmathieu just because of the way he looked. People are awful, at least sometimes. MM is an example of exhibiting humanity.
There is something which I'm desperately trying to understand. Why is JVJ is being persecuted. Hasn't he being released from the prison? Is being an ex-convict in itself a crime to be punished? Society and the guards of the society (the police) seem very eager to condemn and commit him to prison.
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Officially it is the tiny robbery I mentioned above. Apparently being a "recidivist" (repeat offender) is a higher level of evil. The false JVJ was going to be punished for stealing apples, along with the theft of the coin. I do wonder if Javert had been talking up the missing JVJ all these years and trying to get people to find him. Otherwise, why would the police come up with this elaborate explanation about his name and why would they track down the "witnesses"? (who were probably threatened and/or bribed for testimony they didn't really care about one way or the other.)
He did not just steal the coin, it's said that he stole the coin at gunpoint. At least in my edition it was said by Javert that Champmathieu used a gun to steal the coin. What we already know it's false.
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Thanks for noticing that. I doubt that urchin could be easily found again to testify.
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Exactly, it was very moving for me. On one hand, I really don't want to see him do more time due to the enormous positive impact he is having on the town and the people in it. On the other hand, he just can't let someone else go to jail for his crime and he knows that.
Robin wrote: "Rafael wrote: "He did not just steal the coin, it's said that he stole the coin at gunpoint. At least in my edition it was said by Javert that Champmathieu used a gun to steal the coin. What we alr..."It was 9 (?) years before that current events so I think toothat it's unlikely that Gervais could be found. We don't know if the "gun" was invented by Gervais or by someone else so if he invented it it's very unlikely to he would confess the lie. He would be probably charged by it.
My translation (Wilbour) says the JVJ threatened Petit Gervais with a stick The fact that this robbery was known to the police is a little muddled. After his transfiguration immediately following the robbery, JVJ encounters a priest whom he repeatedly asks about Petit Gervais and calls himself a robber. But the priest, who didn’t know Petit Gervais, rides away after JVJ tries to give him money for the poor. Unless there is some other incident I can’t find, it appears that the police would only have discovered JVJ robbed Petit Gervais from Petit Gervais himself or from the priest. Would the police care at all about Petit Gervais? Would the priest bother to report it? Also, JV did not disclose his name, they only have his physical description to go on. Does anyone else remember something I am unable to find? Seems to be one of those weak plot points, but its a little bothersome (to me!)
Maybe someone who knows french could say what the original word states.
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Robin wrote: "Just saw a CNN story online about a man named Alvin Kennard. He was sentenced to life in prison in 1983 for stealing $50 from a bakery. He was 22 years old. He had a knife and it wasn't his first a..."Yes, I had seen this a couple of days ago and thought the very same as you... an uncanny parallel, considering. I wanted to post here as well, but thought otherwise. I’m so glad that you did! That arc of the moral universe needs to start bending towards justice. Stat! This article left me speechless.
Book 7I was most struck by the dream sequence in Chapter IV, Forms Assumed by Suffering During Sleep, in that I would have thought Monsieur Mayor would have made a final decision as to if he was going to take the place of Champmathieu after the dream. Hugo’s use of the dream sequence is common in his narrative, using it as a device to help his characters, or those who find themselves deeply enmeshed in a quandary. I thought the sequence itself was full of symbolism: he was in a field
where there was no grass…feeling cold…there were no trees. There was a deserted road where we saw not a bush, nor even a sprig of moss…A few steps further, and no one answered me when I spoke. I perceived that my brother was no longer with me (206-7, Wilbour).Details all veering towards how lonely and isolated Monsieur Mayor/JVj must have felt, adding yet another rich layer to JVj’s growing turmoil. While the subject matter at hand was tough to bear, I found the narrative itself, Hugo’s attempt at piecing apart the various facets of JVj’s psyche, was absolutely riveting to read. I think it was Rafael who said it earlier, but I too could really feel the emotional push and pull involved in JVj thought processing.
Also in the dream, JVj says,
We saw a man passing near us. He was entirely naked, ashen-colored, mounted upon a horse which was the color of the earth. The man had no hair; we saw his skull and the veins in his skull. In his hand he held a stick which was limber like a twig of grape vine, and heavy as iron. This horseman passed by and said nothing (207, Wilbour).There’s something here, but I’m not sure what it is, an awful lot of talk of color, and the twig… Ashen-coloured I would think would be a reference to death; mounted upon a horse the color of earth, the ground… is this about Fantine? Surely not, the dream is quite JVj centric, is it not?
The twig may be of importance as well, however, I don’t understand the meaning of the metaphor here in relation to the skeletal naked man riding bareback on his horse.
By the end of this Book, reading JVj to be walking out of the courtroom after the full and unadulterated admissions of his guilt and revealing his identity, I could feel the weight being lifted off of his shoulders...allowing the chips to fall where they may.
Hugo has written beautifully the inner struggle Jean Valjean goes through in deciding whether to reveal his identity and surrender himself or to keep his secret and let an innocent man to be punished in stead of him. This was the most emotional part I have read so far. It was heart-rending.
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I couldn't agree more, it was very touching. It felt like I was right there in the room with him watching him pace.
The dream sequence seems to be complicated for scholars. I came across an article which details the different positions scholars have taken as well as various possible interpretations. It is not a quick article to read but interesting. I am always bad at interpreting dreams in novels so this gave me some things to consider, but didn’t finalize my thoughts. The author does say, and I agree, that the dream is important because “the nightmare struck JVJ so forcibly that he afterwards wrote it down. It is one of the papers in his own handwriting, which he has left behind him...Whatever this dream may be, the story of that night would be incomplete if we should omit it. It is the gloomy adventure of a sick soul.” Was JVJ in that space after death between heaven, hell, purgatory or whatever one believes comes after? Does it signify where his soul is because he has not yet made a decision concerning Champmatheiu? Where he may be trapped for eternity if his decision is not the morally courageous one?
https://www.mcgeorge.edu/documents/pu...
I could not put this down! I’d planned to read half this section today and half tomorrow so I could catch up, but I ended up reading the whole section today. Like everyone else, I found JVJ’s inner struggle captivating. He almost talked himself out of turning himself in so many times, and so convincingly. I liked that things get increasingly surreal as JVJ gets closer and closer to revealing himself. It kind of seems like JVJ’s declaration is involuntary, he just blurts it out. You can almost hear the record scratch.
Linda, thanks for that link on the dream sequence. I haven’t read the paper yet but I was baffled by it in the book. To me it feels out of keeping with the straightforward nature of the story overall, which I guess is why it sticks out.
I liked the courtroom scenes and disparaging remarks about prosecutors (lol), though I certainly don’t understand the criminal procedure of the time. It’s super interesting to me that Champmathieu would’ve been convicted based on FOUR witnesses’ testimony, all of whom had mistakenly identified him as JVJ. The reliability of eyewitness testimony has recently come under increased scrutiny in the US but about half the states so far have instituted some reforms.
https://www.innocenceproject.org/eyew...
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I like the term "surreal" that you used, Linda. JVJ has hardly slept and is in a very heightened emotional state.
Linda wrote: "The dream sequence seems to be complicated for scholars. I came across an article which details the different positions scholars have taken as well as various possible interpretations. It is not a ..."Thank you so much for this link, Linda. I have not had a chance to read it just yet, but it's on my list. I can't wait.
Well, I'm so glad I was able to bring the dream sequence up. This narrative driven from the subconscious of JVj struck me as odd only because when he woke up, he was still in a flux state of mind, no decision to be had. Your comment about JVj, perhaps stuck in a purgatory of sorts makes sense due to his lack of clarity. I think by him making a choice between Fantine and Chapmathieu it would release his soul, yes...a morally courageous choice.
Jill wrote: "I could not put this down! I’d planned to read half this section today and half tomorrow so I could catch up, but I ended up reading the whole section today. Like everyone else, I found JVJ’s inn..."
To me it feels out of keeping with the straightforward nature of the story overall, which I guess is why it sticks out.
That's awesome! Oh, gosh, I wish it was as straightforward for me as it is for you. I feel very much in line with JVj, all over the place. I found the dream sequence to be fitting for this very reason because of its non-linear nature. If it wasn't for those reading alongside with me, I'd be a lost cause with this one. :)
When Javert declared he wished to be punished, what did that reveal about his character? What did Javert believe to have happened to Jean Valjean? When Monsieur Madeleine replied to Javert, what did that reveal about his character?
What do you think was the deciding factor for Monsieur Madeleine when he decided to reveal his true identity even though it meant he would go back to prison?
What do you think about the following passages:
“One can no more prevent the mind from returning to an idea than the sea from returning to a shore. In the case of the sailor, this is called the tide; in the case of the guilty, it is called remorse. God upheaves the soul as well as the ocean”
“He felt the Bishop was present all the more that he was dead…”
What do you think you would have done if you were in that situation, aside from the horror of being faced with a life sentence in wretched conditions and hard labor? Would you have struggled, the way Monsieur Madeleine when contemplating what would happen to all the people he helped and the town through his dedication? Do you think there is ever any justification of sacrificing an innocent? Do you think we should judge people based on an act (or several acts) as opposed to looking at the entirety of their lives and the good they have done (as rarely people are all bad)? How should we balance mercy and justice?