The Not a Book Club Club discussion
Harry Potter
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HPatGoF: Part 2: Chapter 11 - Chapter 19
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Berating people is never going to convince people you have a worthy cause.
So here's a discussion I'd like to have, that has been on my mind since the reread started:
The new DAtDA teacher is "Mad Eye" Mooney. Only we know it's really not Mad Eye but Barty Crouch Jr.
Mad Eye has always been my second favorite DAtDA teacher behind Lupin. However it's not him. What do we really know about Moody? Presumably Dumbledore knows him well and would know what he acts like, but maybe he's not nearly as crazy. Would Moody have done the forbidden curses?
We don't see the real him very much in these books. So do I actually like Moody, or Crouch's impersonation of him? Is Crouch's impersonation so good as to not matter? It always felt to me like it was treated that way by the latter books, or maybe that's just how it was in my brain.
What do you guys think?
I don't like this Moody because I know he's an imposter. I wonder how good of an impression it is. The real Moody in OOTP is different. He's more cautious and not as big of a personality to me. I like that more. I was going to bring up the Unforgivable Curses. I really don't think Dumbledore would be okay with Moody performing the Imperius on the students. Showing them is one thing, actually using them on the students would be a crossed line to him, if you ask me.
I like that the Arithmency teacher is Professor Vector.And imposter or not, I had to love the white ferret.
Sadly, and maybe I'm in the minority, I kind of liked both Moody's. The ferret was awesome, and, while he was an imposter, I think it wasn't a bad idea to show these kids what exactly they were up against. It's one thing to describe something, or show pictures of people in pain, but quite another to have them actually experience what the other side is willing to do to you if you let your guard down. Yeah, maybe not on the approved curriculum but good for them to know.
I know that it's mentioned near the end that he kept Moody around in the trunk so he could learn his mannerisms and how he talks and acts so it might be a pretty close impersonation of him; it definitely fooled Dumbledore he seems to be pretty close with the real one. I think Dumbledore even mentions that him always carrying his own flask of polly juice potion was spot on because the real Moody never drank from anything else.
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However, why is he doing it? Fun? It seems to me like Harry is actually learning how to fight it, and doesn't this help him later in the series?
Is his assumption that any help he gives to Harry now is moot because he'll be dead at the end of the TriWizard tournament?
I was thinking that maybe Moody is testing Harry to try to determine his weaknesses - especially because of what happened the last time the fatal curse was done to him. He's bringing up Dumbledore with such authority every time he does something in class "Dumbledore wants you to learn this." I suspect its so nobody goes complaining to someone in authority.
I don't know why Crouch Jr-Moody thinks it's a good idea to perform the curse on the students. Practice for himself so he can cast a really strong one on his father later? I have no idea.
Ch. 10-I enjoy the scene with the Weasleys, Harry, and Hermione around the fire.
Ch. 11
-I wish Rowling introduced Beauxbatons and Durmstrang in an earlier book, even just mentioned in passing. It would feel more organic to the world.
-Malfoy so clearly torments Ron just for a rise. Hermione is the only one wise enough not to give it to Malfoy.
Ch. 12
-I've noticed on the re-read that I find the characters surrounding Harry more interesting and distinctive than Harry himself. Not that I don't like Harry. I do.
-I would not enter the Triwzard tournament. I like being alive. And I don't like attention.
Ch. 13
-Eloise Midgen cursed her acne away and lost her nose. LOL.
-I like Hagrid but there's no way I'd ever want to take a class that he's teaching.
Ch. 14
-Hermione once again shows that she's the greatest. She notices that Neville is distressed and tries to comfort him.
Ch. 15
-As I mentioned before, I don't think Dumbledore would be okay with Moody performing the Imperius curse on the students. He'd be okay showing the students but never actually using it on them.
-''Maybe not, Thomas, but believe me, you need all the preparation you can get! Miss Granger remains the only person in this class who has managed to turn a hedgehog into a satisfactory pincushion. I might remind you that your pincushion, Thomas, still curls up in fright if anyone approaches it with a pin!''
-''You just don't like him because he beat Gryffindor at Quidditch.'' Tell 'em, Hermione!
-Any Malazan readers reminded of the Trygalle Trade Guild when the Beauxbatons carriage arrives?
-I would love to see the other two schools. I imagine Beauxbatons to be opulent, like Versailles Lite.
Ch. 16
-Ron has veela issues. She's your future sister-in-law, Ron! Awkward.
-What would happen if Harry just didn't compete? Rowling never mentions any clear repercussions. It's all very vague.
-Fred and George with beards = hilarious.
-Yay for Cedric and the Hufflepuffs.
Ch. 17
-The circumstances for Harry competing are entirely too convenient. He's obliged to compete by the rules (with no stated consequences if he doesn't), the Goblet only ignites once every 5 years so no more champions can be selected, nobody bothers to see if his entry is even written in his own handwriting... it's all to easy.
-Not having end of year tests is a total cop-out. You automatically graduate if you're a champion? ''Congrats! Here's 5 N.E.W.T.s! You're a fully qualified wizard now!''
-Ron should know that Harry wouldn't enter himself and doesn't want the spotlight but I totally get why Ron is so angry and jealous.
Ch. 18
-HERMIONE IS THE GREATEST.
-You'd think Harry would be more appreciative of Hermione's unswavering support.
-Teachers are so mean at Hogwarts. How can Dumbledore let Snape strut around being so cruel to everyone except the Slytherins? And poisoning students? I feel like that could go seriously wrong.
-I've mentioned some casting I never liked (Sirius, Moody) but I loveMiranda Richardson as Skeeter. She's exectly what I pictured.
-Unsurprisingly, veela hair makes for temperamental wands.
-I would love to be a wandmaker.
-First mention of Gregorovich. This is important in Deathly Hallows.
Ch. 19
-I feel like Harry has yet to reach the stage where he realizes that he can have two best friends and it's okay that one is a girl.
-What the hell does Hagrid mean by ''Bong-sewer?'' Is he trying to say ''bonsoir?''
-If I had to face off against a dragon, I would shit my pants and run in the opposite direction.
-Moody caught Karkaroff and put him in Azkaban. Explains imposter-Moody's disgust with him – Karkaroff turned in a bunch of imposter-Moody's pals to secure release. Total red herring.
I really like Hermione in this section. The first time I read this I was just put-off by her house-elf crusade. This time I am more focused on how she treats Harry, Neville, etc. - she is really a good friend.
Hermione does come off too aggressive about S.P.E.W. but I like her passion for it.
I love later on when she tries to get Hagrid to join and he just kind of laughs her off
I was just thinking about that - she is coming at the house-elf thing from an outsiders perspective - she didn't just grow up assuming they loved serving her. There are probably some parallels to real life in there.
Good point, Suzanne. It's easy to see why she finds their enslavement so barbaric and horrible. I'm totally with her and I'm glad she's taking such a strong stand on it.
Mod
That actually happens somewhere in this section. It's not that he laughs even, he's against it because he thinks they all like it save an outlier like Dobby.
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Same. I remember the SPEW stuff annoying me more, but really she's the only reasonable one between the stupid fight between Harry and Ron, not to mention all the crap with Rita Skeeter, whose even worse than I remember. How does she work for the daily prophet and not some gossip rag?
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It sees through Harry's cloak. Is it really that powerful? I thought his was better as one of the hollows?
Rob wrote: "Scott wrote: "I love later on when she tries to get Hagrid to join and he just kind of laughs her off"That actually happens somewhere in this section. It's not that he laughs even, he's against it because he thinks they all like it save an outlier like Dobby. "
Ah yeah, good call. I love his reaction, though, how he doesn't give it a second thought and Hermione is so into it.
Hmmm...I hadn't thought about Moody's eye being able to see through the cloak. Really, that cloak doesn't seem all that impressive at the moment - Moody and Dumbledore see right through it. Fine for a normal invisibility cloak, but Rob you are right - for one of the Hallows that seems a little underpowered.
I agree about Snape - his comment about the teeth was SO unprofessional. I was feeling a bit sorry for him after the last book and thinking about how he was bullied, but he's lost that sympathy now.
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I think spotted dick is some kind of dessert, but I'm at work and I'm not risking the google seach.
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No. It's some kind of hex for the eyes. Krum uses it and Sirius tells Harry what it was the next time they talk I think. Either way you find out later.
I love that Hermione is socialist, too. <3I never got the crush on Cho. I mean, I know they're teenagers but Harry's never even talked to her before.
I think this is the first time that the killing curse is explicitly described and is confirmed as how the Potters died.
Good point about the dialogue in this book. I think that's why I found Harry to be kind of boring (maybe not boring. Undistinguished) this time around. He reacts to so much rather than initiating anything.
I always thought 30-40 students came from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang.
I have very humorous images of Ollivander plucking tail hairs from unicorns and then running for his life.
Think Sirius mentions what spell he was going to tell him later, something messing with the dragon's eyes. Can't remember the name I think Krum ends up using it.
Mod
Spotted dick is a pudding popular in Britain, containing dried fruit (usually currants or raisins) commonly served with custard. Spotted refers to the dried fruit (which resemble spots) and dick may be a contraction or corruption of the word pudding (from the last syllable) or possibly a corruption of the word dough[1] or dog, as "spotted dog" is another name for the same dish with the use of plums rather than currants. Another explanation offered for the word "dick" is that it is the German word for "thick."
via Wikipedia
It's very nice, actually. But given the colourful names the British have for foodstuff, this isn't unusual. There is also Toad in the Hole and Faggots to name just two.
In very particular about texture and I think spotted dick wouldn't go well for me.
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No. The Polyjuice take his eye and his leg and Barty is using Moody's eye and leg.
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It happens the night that Mr. Weasely gets called to help him with the problem at his house. He really was attacked and Crouch used the polyjuice potion then and made a cover story to make it look like Moody overreacted.
NOTE: While this section is meant to focus on the specified chapters of this book, this read is meant for people who have already read the entire series.
As a result, unlike most of our group reads, full spoilers for the series will be allowed without spoiler tags in every discussion post.
If you haven't read some/all of the books (What's wrong with you?) proceed at your own peril.