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Librarians to the rescue!
message 51:
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Gail
(new)
Oct 08, 2014 01:45PM
This happens with so many authors. There's also a 'MR E M Forster' here: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...
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Gail wrote: "This happens with so many authors. There's also a 'MR E M Forster' here: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show..."Done also this.
LOL dely - because you've done it properly I can't see it any more! That's proof that you have done a good job :)Yes, I think it is worth correcting duplicates of authors, whereas I despair of all the other duplicates of specific editions, or smaller mistakes. As I've mentioned before, this is sadly why I'm not a librarian, as with my personality I would spend all day correcting stuff!
But this author duplication goes through to all the links - the add book/author at the top of this box - and is so misleading for readers new to an author. It might appear as if a really prolific author has only written one book, for instance. Again, thank you :)
Jean wrote: "LOL dely - because you've done it properly I can't see it any more! That's proof that you have done a good job :)"I hope so! :D
It's full of such mistakes above all with authors with different spellings: Dostoevskij vs Dostoyevsky or written in non-Latin scripts; authors with more than one first name...and so on. Goodreads should do something to link all these alias into the right author's account. It is on GR's "to-do-list" and I hope they will implement it soon.
I've been wondering about Dostoevsky, as I'll soon be adding some of his books to my shelf - seems that US editions of his books transliterate his name as Dostoyevsky, and UK ones as Dostoevsky. I'm imagining/hoping they've already been combined. It's good to hear it's something Goodreads is planning to do. I guess the difficulty is you'll always get new people who might enter a different version of the name, find it's not there and add it, not thinking to check if there's a more common version. No idea why someone would think they had to add Mr to E.M. Forster's name though!
I am imagining that the Goodreads convention for authors who have more than one initial is to use full stops (periods) after the initials, but with no space between them. This is good to know.
Gail wrote: "I've been wondering about Dostoevsky, as I'll soon be adding some of his books to my shelf - seems that US editions of his books transliterate his name as Dostoyevsky, and UK ones as Dostoevsky. I'..."The rule is to follow the US spelling but not everybody reads the librarian manual and there are also some wrong automatic imports.
GR is working on this feature since I joined, 2010! My hopes are very low they will implement it soon.
That's a shame. I suppose that's why they let users be librarians - in the hopes that they will fix any errors.That's good to know about American spellings. I figured American spellings would probably be the default. I actually had no idea until recently that Americans spell Dostoevsky differently from us. My usual rule of thumb is to search for a book title and then see which version of the author has the most readers. Although I discovered recently that won't work when it's a book that's only recently been translated into English.
Gail wrote: "That's a shame. I suppose that's why they let users be librarians - in the hopes that they will fix any errors.That's good to know about American spellings. I figured American spellings would pro..."
I look also for the most complete author page. Usually it is the right one!
Part of the trouble is that GR adds an author page for any name typed in as the author of a book automatically. So if someone adds an edition of say A Room With A View that isn't in the system and they spell the name differently then GR does, GR makes a new author page for that name. Then with authors who are on GR they have control of their own page so librarians can't combine wrong spellings into their correct spellings.
Gail wrote: "Laura, yes, it seems to be older, more obscure books that aren't recorded. And books in translation are often recorded in an incomplete way - not joined with the original, for instance, but recorde..."It took me a while to realize that when I added a new edition of a book, it wasn't automatically linked to the other editions! It has to be combined with them in a separate step after being created...
Leslie wrote: "Gail wrote: "Laura, yes, it seems to be older, more obscure books that aren't recorded. And books in translation are often recorded in an incomplete way - not joined with the original, for instance..."They fixed that finally. Now when you add a new edition as another edition it is supposed to combine them automatically.
Oh good! But there are still a lot of "orphan" editions because others, like myself, hadn't realized that the combining step needed to be done. I try to combine editions when I find these "orphans" but I have to be careful not to fall into the trap Jean described (of spending all my time correcting things!).
dely wrote: "Gail wrote: "I've been wondering about Dostoevsky, as I'll soon be adding some of his books to my shelf - seems that US editions of his books transliterate his name as Dostoyevsky, and UK ones as D..."Dely I'm always amazed/astounded by the lack of 'librarian manual' stuff that some librarians display. Personally, I think GR hands out the GR Librarian 'qualification' far too easily. I'm like Jean, I'm so nit-picky that I'd spend all day correcting stuff so I haven't become a librarian.
Maybe they could halt the problem of author/book edition problem by taking away the facility that lets anyone add a book.
I recently came across a book whose publisher was noted as"Not Available"; that broke me up but made me irritated as well:)
Bette BookAddict wrote: "dely wrote: "Gail wrote: "I've been wondering about Dostoevsky, as I'll soon be adding some of his books to my shelf - seems that US editions of his books transliterate his name as Dostoyevsky, and..."I suspect the reason for letting anyone add a book is because of all the ebooks that will only be added by a couple of members. No one wants to have to spend hours taking requests and adding them. The number of books that get added to Amazon in day is I believe in the thousands.
Bette BookAddict wrote: "dely wrote: "Gail wrote: "I've been wondering about Dostoevsky, as I'll soon be adding some of his books to my shelf - seems that US editions of his books transliterate his name as Dostoyevsky, and..."The most mistakes are done by people who add books without knowing how it works and without looking if there already is the book they are looking for so we have a lot of duplicates without data or with wrong ones. But librarians are human too, so sometimes they make a mistake. The worst thing is when they combine volume 1 or 2 with the complete work and then they must again be separated. Other times the publishers print the book in different volumes and it's not always the same in every country. For example Quiet Flows the Don has been printed in Italy in 4 volumes and in other countries in 2 volumes; but someone could see volume 1 (Italian edition) and combine it with volume 1 of the US edition and it isn't the same.
In a similar site to GR only librarians (and there are only a few!) can add or change the book data and it is however a mess!
#Dely and @amber I hear what you're saying. GR would probably have to actually employ people to add books; their costs would rise and maybe eventually we'd have to pay to be members. I see both your points and agree with you. It must be such a hard job for GR to keep it all running as well as it does. And me, I'm always just wishing for a perfect world in all respects, lol:)
Heh - I'm sure my not knowing that certain authors' names are transliterated differently in the US won't wreak havok on Goodreads. I soon find out once I do a search for the author anyway.Dely, just to clarify, while the American spelling of Dostoevsky has a 'y' in it, when I'm entering my own copy of a book onto my bookshelf, do I enter it as it is on my UK version of the book, or default to an American version of the book? That's what I was wondering - I think the two spellings have already been joined, because when I search for 'Dostoevsky', Goodreads brings up 'Dostoyevsky'. Or will Goodreads just automatically change it on my bookshelf to the American spelling?
Gail wrote: "Heh - I'm sure my not knowing that certain authors' names are transliterated differently in the US won't wreak havok on Goodreads. I soon find out once I do a search for the author anyway.Dely, j..."
You enter your UK edition with the US spelling. Perhaps in English you don't note that much the difference because the title is always the same. If I add Delitto e castigo (Crime and Punishment) I will have my Italian edition but with the US spelling of the author.
The best thing to do is to search books by isbn so you are sure you will have your edition.
I don't think they have been joint because if I look for Dostoevsky GR finds this page: https://www.goodreads.com/search?utf8... There are books about him but and only a few by him. If you look for Dostoyevsky you will find all his books: https://www.goodreads.com/search?utf8...
The same happens with the Italian spelling. Surely someone has added the UK (or Italian) spelling as the second author and combined with the other editions (US spelling); it's because of this that you see a few books by Dostoyevsky also looking for Dostoevsky or Dostoevskij. I hope this makes sense.
Ah, okay, thanks, Dely. I also get that page if I do a search, but if I then select 'author', for a specific author search, I get books with the American spelling. Here: https://www.goodreads.com/search?utf8...
I am now reading an advanced copy of a book called Amherst : A Novel by William Nicholson. There is a problem with searching for the title, it doesn't come up . It seems to be tied to one of his other books called Reckless . Consequently, the review that appear for Amherst are for Reckless. I am including the links. I wrote to Goodreads but it didn't get fixed properly.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Reckless
Can someone fix this by making separate entries ?
Thanks so much.
Angela wrote: "I am now reading an advanced copy of a book called Amherst : A Novel by William Nicholson. There is a problem with searching for the title, it doesn't come up . It seems to be tied to one of his ot..."I have separated them.
I'd like to ask something. Is there a convention with Goodreads that authors are always filed under the last part of their name, even when it's a surname with two parts, such as a prefix rather than double barreled? I have noticed that "Daphne du Maurier" is under M and "John le Carre" is under "C", which is most unusual practise - and a bit counter-intuitive too.
With authors such as W. Somerset Maugham I can understand the problem, but in the first two cases it goes against what most libraries in this country do (although they sometimes misfile, and then have the author in two separate places. That's even more frustrating!)
Or are these two mistakes? I'm always forgetting where poor Daphne is filed! :D
dely wrote: "Angela wrote: "I am now reading an advanced copy of a book called Amherst : A Novel by William Nicholson. There is a problem with searching for the title, it doesn't come up . It seems to be tied ..."dely , thanks so much !
Angela wrote: "dely wrote: "Angela wrote: "I am now reading an advanced copy of a book called Amherst : A Novel by William Nicholson. There is a problem with searching for the title, it doesn't come up . It seem..."dely - sorry to bug you again . There is one review associated with Amherst by Susan that is a review of Reckless .
Angela wrote: "Angela wrote: "dely wrote: "Angela wrote: "I am now reading an advanced copy of a book called Amherst : A Novel by William Nicholson. There is a problem with searching for the title, it doesn't c..."I can't move reviews. Perhaps a GR's bug but I can't do anything for this.
dely , thanks so much for your help !
Can a librarian respond to my post 75 please. (Just when you have time, but I don't want it to get lost!)
Jean wrote: "Can a librarian respond to my post 75 please. (Just when you have time, but I don't want it to get lost!)"I didn't respond you because I don't know the answer. I hope someone else can explain you.
For me it makes sense that Daphne du Maurier is under M but it would make sense also if she would be under D. For me it matters only to find them when I look for them on GR.
Jean wrote: "I'd like to ask something. Is there a convention with Goodreads that authors are always filed under the last part of their name, even when it's a surname with two parts, such as a prefix rather tha..."I'm not sure either. I think it could be a mistake, but I think Goodreads is a bit like Wikipedia - anything goes! I would put Daphne under D but I hadn't really thought about John le Carre, but then I have never worked in a library.
Mod
This is the good one: Rabindranath Tagore.
Here are a bunch of others with no or few books that get in the way when searching:
Tagore, Rabindranath,
Tagore,
Tagore Rabindranath,
Rabindranath Tagore (Tr. Rosinka Chaudhuri) , Rosinka Chaudhuri,
RabindranathTagore,
Rabindranath Tagor.
I think there's more.
When I first tried to link the author's name only the junk options came up until I searched for a specific book :( No big deal but good to clean up if possible.
dely wrote: "Jean wrote: "Can a librarian respond to my post 75 please. (Just when you have time, but I don't want it to get lost!)"I didn't respond you because I don't know the answer. I hope someone else ca..."
I am in the same boat as dely! If you really want to know, try the Goodreads Librarian group -- people there seem to know everything!
@Greg -- I will look into Tagore's duplicate authors but I seem to recall only super-librarians can delete author profiles.
(later) I successfully merged all those with the real author!
Thanks for your input, dely and Shirley. Actually, I worked full time in public libraries for several years when I was younger, so I do happen to know the convention here. It would be under the prefix, in this case D for "du" or L for "le". Just think where you would go to on the real-life shelves ...
But I thought it might be different in the USA perhaps, and consequently not a mistake on the part of Goodreads.
Mod
Thanks Leslie. I suppose I assumed the librarians here would all be members of that group. Whenever I've approached with a question, I've joined the group temporarily in order to put the question. But it seems a bit of a long-winded way to do that since I then have to leave it again to prevent notifications!
Greg - that was a super-dooper blooper you found!
@Greg I don't know about you but I get really irritated when I see this happening. people are not careful when adding books and do not follow prescribed data. Just carelessness, I think.It's one reason I'm not a GR Librarian; I'd run out of patience at such incompetence and start telling people who made such errors: 'You idiot". (In real life, my photo is in the Dictionary next to the word 'impatient').
LOL Leslie, I feel exactly the same, and have exactly the same reason for not being a GR librarian (as I think we might have mentioned before.) The number of duplications of Kindle book is enormous, for instance. It more than doubles the amount of entries, sometimes.I do wonder though, if sometimes it isn't people being careless, but a limitation of an app. Whatever it is, I do wish Goodreads would do something about it.
Will get off here now, to allow for more requests ...
Bette and Jean ,I don't want to be a Goodreads Librarian either even though I was a Librarian before I retired . But I appreciate everyone who does put time and effort into it like dely and Leslie . I think Leslie has it right - as long as people can find things . When I was working and providing access to books , scientific journals and databases that was the key - can people find what they need . Thanks again dely & Leslie and others !
Yes, thank you, all :)I do feel a bit guilty about not contributing to Goodreads in this particular way, but know myself too well ...
Jean, I've done some research when cataloguing our poetry authors and it seems that in most (not all) online libraries and the national German library using the last part of the name is the convention, especially if its like von, van, du, de, la, le and so on. I guess it has to do with the fact that they are functioning like a preposition or article ( not sure if those are the proper terms in English) There are exceptions to the rule (at least that's what I have noticed in the National German library catalogue) but that really seems to be a science of it own, especially when it comes to foreign names. I am not sure if library systems differ by country but to me it would seem counter intuitive to file her under D.
Thank you so much, Jenny!Perhaps it only seems counter intuitive to me because it is what I have always known to be the status quo from childhood. I see the logic of what you are saying, but it is not the case here in England. In both libraries and bookshops here, those prefixes count as part of the surname. I suspect the electoral roll is the same (haven't checked.) Certainly in school registers or army roll call or something you would never hear "Maurier! ... Daphne du". It just sounds silly!
But evidently that is just the English viewpoint, and I am grateful to learn that in this case English people are out of step with the rest of the world, thanks :)
That is useful information to have! I'll be spending my winter in Northern Ireland and will probably try to use the library there. It will save a lot of time knowing that the filing system is different!
Mod
Jean wrote: "I thought it might be different in the USA perhaps, and consequently not a mistake on the part of Goodreads.
"
It is the same in the US. Under Du for Du Maurier and Le for Le Carre.
Laurel (real life librarian)
Thanks for the real-life librarian comments too! :)How interesting that in two English-speaking countries, (the UK and the USA) the "du" part is thought of as part of the surname, whereas in the European countries where the words originate, "du", "van" etc are not! I had wondered about the logic of filing an author according to the conventions of their nationality - then realised that would be impossible. But...
"Can people find what they need?" as Bette and others have said - this is clearly paramount. So why on earth, in a catalogue of virtual books, can there not be duplicate entries? We have our books on as many virtual shelves as we want, so since countries have different rules it seems an obvious solution!
I was lying awake thinking about this (yes!) and the fact that sometimes Sikh females use "Kaur" as their last name, sometimes as a middle name. (It just designates "female".) If all Sikh authors used this first way what a problem that would be! The male equivalent is "Singh". I used to have a whole list of kids who apparently had the same surname. Then there were the Muslim "Abduls" - sometimes used as a first name, sometimes a last. I think the Chinese also have a choice as to which name to select.
It does strike me that Goodreads have not properly thought this through, as it would be as easy to enter authors in additional ways.
I apologise that this seems to have turned into an actual discussion! It was originally meant to be a simple query ...
One more thought. How are Van Gogh's writings and letters filed? I haven't looked ... but he did sign himself "Vincent" didn't he? ;) LOL!
Jenny wrote: "Jean, I've done some research when cataloguing our poetry authors and it seems that in most (not all) online libraries and the national German library using the last part of the name is the convent..."This makes a lot of sense Jenny. I guess in English speaking countries, the "article" is quite rare, so we would include it as part of the name, but in France, for example, it would be commonplace, so it would make more sense to use the second part of the name as a way of filing or sorting into order. Interesting.
Well at least in the poetry catalogue I've now force fed you all the German National library's cataloguing system, sorry about that, but I can feel my hair turning grey at the thought of changing it all again. Interestingly I had a question about that concerning Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Now here's a real foreigners question: Wadsworth is another part of the surname right? Or (blushing in ignorance) is that another first name? Whichever, I was unsure how to file him assuming it to be a double surname, as I found contradicting versions and asked for help and Bette found him filed under Longfellow in maybe the British or Australian National library catalogue. Are there exceptions to the rule or is it just because I can't for the life in me make the difference between surnames and first names anymore?! LOL.
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