Outlander Series discussion
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Episode 8 - Both Sides Now - Spoilers up thru E8.
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Vanessa Eden
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Oct 02, 2014 03:38AM
I always felt that Frank had a sad life and got the short end of the stick. But hey, he did choose to stay with Claire.
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gertt wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "Sorry ladies, it's already happening. I see them all over Pinterest, lol. You can't have a show with any sort of a triangle without people starting it up...."I've been thinking ..."
I have to agree with Gertt on this. What is the point of having team Frank when he has such a small part in these books. The books are mainly about the love between Claire and Jamie. With that said, I really do like the way they showed Claire and Franks relationship on the show. It gives us a new perspective on his side of things but not enough to forget what Claire and Jamie have together. It's what I want to read about when I pick up the books for the thousand and first time. This isn't a Twilight situation at all!
did you all listen to the podcast?from @M
Ron Moore's podcast for episode 8 is finally up: http://assets.starz.com/stzcom/outlan....
clarifies a lot as far as changes go
apparently, even Terry, the costue designer of the show is having active conversations/dialogues/interactions on her blog terrydressbach.com . Here is her response the the vociferous ( via internet of course) stream of "interesting" activity on her site, in her forums, specifically, uner a heading entitles : Mrs. Fitz's Bitshttp://www.salon.com/2014/08/23/furio...
gertt wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "Sorry ladies, it's already happening. I see them all over Pinterest, lol. You can't have a show with any sort of a triangle without people starting it up...."I've been thinking ..."
Yeah, I agree with you. Frank is a (view spoiler).
I actually think this is not specifically targeting Frank or Jamie but just this decades fad started by teens and followed by young adults that feel like they are still young and cool,and anytime something like J&F or the Twilight Saga or any other shows like them come along the young jump right on it-it`s solidarity.
That's probably true too, and it's just that Jamie and Frank are the new show they're watching.
I assume it's ok to talk about episod 7 (the wedding) on this thread. I heard a lot of differing opintions on how the wedding episode was laid out with the flashbacks. Personally, I loved it becasue it forced the viewer to go into the day blind. Claire had no idea all of what Jamie was doing behind the scenes to make sure it was a proper and respectful ceremony. As their night wore on I thought the flashbacks really helped show how Claire truly began to bond with Jamie as she discovered what he'd been up to and knew he didn't have to do all of that for their day. I then had a good laugh (and loved how Jamie took it) as Claire shared how her day had gone. Waking up with a hangover and hair frizzed to the extreme in a BARN was priceless!! LOL.
I know the show is not following all the details of the book but I am still enjoying it though imo the first 4 episodes could have been faster paced.
Overthemoon wrote: "I assume it's ok to talk about episod 7 (the wedding) on this thread. I heard a lot of differing opintions on how the wedding episode was laid out with the flashbacks. Personally, I loved it beca..."
Yes, at this point you can discuss all of the first 8 episodes in this thread, just not spoilers from further in the series.
Question: at what point should one introduce one of the shorter novellas. Is there a sequence to them as well?
Ellen wrote: "Question: at what point should one introduce one of the shorter novellas. Is there a sequence to them as well?"See here for the list on Dianas web page
http://www.dianagabaldon.com/books/ch...
Episode 8 aired in Aus last night & I thought it was another great episode. I have enjoyed all 8, but I think the last 3 have definitely been the best.I enjoyed the Frank scenes & think Frank is important to the story at this point. He reminds us of who Claire is & where she is from, which is a big part of the story and it showed why even though yes she is starting to have feelings for Jamie, she still so desperately wants to get back to Frank and also in future seasons (view spoiler)
I didnt mind them changing it slightly & having her running to the stones as (except for Frank being on the other side) I didnt see it as that much different to the book. In the book, as soon as she is alone she makes a run for it, planning on getting to the stones & going back, In the show, as soon as she is alone she makes a run for it, planning on getting to the stones & going back, the only difference being instead of getting caught in the river & captured there by the redcoats, she was already quite close to the stones & got captured there by the redcoats.
I think the knife lessons could have been done a bit better, they felt a bit rushed, but you cant fit everything in I guess.
Loved the ending. "I'll Thank You to take your hands off my wife" one of my favouite lines from all the books. Although I thought he said it a bit fast, more rushed than I always imagined it. But I guess that is just my interpretation.
And last but certainly not least, Little Roger. Was he just the cutest thing you have ever seen :)
Now a 6 month wait until the rest of season 1 :( But lets face it we waited 5 years for Moby, 6 months will fly by :)
maybe if we count down the days, it will seem shorter somehow. What is it now? 186?
Ellen wrote: "did you all listen to the podcast?from @M
Ron Moore's podcast for episode 8 is finally up: http://assets.starz.com/stzcom/outlan....
clarifies a lot as far as changes go"
I totally agree that the podcast really provides incredible insight on the choices that have been made, and the care and deliberate thought to goes into each episode and changes to the book. They are total fans, and you are reminded that this is an adaptation into a different medium. Maybe because I am a relatively new to the series, it is easier for me but I love the depth and new dimensions they are adding.
Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "Does anyone think that Jamie is being portrayed as being a little to refined? When I read this section in the book, Jamie seemed stronger, more in control when he talked to Claire. ..."
Everything I am seeing around the web tells me that you should be patient -- that the first half was Claire's story and evolution and the 2nd half is about Jaimie's evolution.
Lisa wrote: "Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "Does anyone think that Jamie is being portrayed as being a little to refined? When I read this section in the book, Jamie seemed stronger, more in control when he talk..."
I think that is accurate even for the books. We don't really get to know Jamie until after they are married and I would argue even until after (view spoiler)
Diana was tricky in the first quarter of the book, because she kept Jamie as a side character.Most readers thought she would find herself with Dougal.
Yikes I have so much to catch up on. I only read the first page of the comments so far. I was trying to put off watching this episode so that my break from the later half of the season wouldn't be as long. But alas, I caved. I couldn't help it. lolPersonally, I really liked the added scenes with Frank searching for Claire. It was how I imagined things would have went had Diana written about it. I also thought it was very important for these to be included because it helps us see more of where Frank is coming from when (view spoiler)
I also agree that we need more Jamie/Claire time. However I wouldn't sacrifice the Frank scenes for it. Perhaps the Season should have been a few episodes longer rather than trying to cram everything in.
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading a different book than everyone else lol. I have always seen Frank as totally different then boring, bookish, stuffy, etc. I know I've said it before. I don't really see how others view him that way. One of the things that the show has allowed us to see more so, is how Claire viewed him through eyes of loving amusement. I liked that. Because that's how I viewed him reading it.
Other than that, I missed the scene where Jamie threatens to tan Claire's hide if she doesn't stay in the glen while he's gone. Maybe they kept that out because they didn't want Jamie to seem like a wife beater before he actually beats her? lol.
Mrsbooks wrote: "Yikes I have so much to catch up on. I only read the first page of the comments so far. I was trying to put off watching this episode so that my break from the later half of the season wouldn't b..."I completely agree with you about Frank and the show! Then again maybe I would be considered bookish and boring as well considering I'm a history major myself.
I agree also, I've always had a soft spot for Frank.
I get people's disappointment in the lack of Jamie, but actually up till the wedding, this was how it was in the book too.Instead of spending time talking about Claire in her surgery at Leoch, they put more time into what Franks been up to.
I think when Diana wrote the book, she wanted Jamie to be a bit of a surprise. A casual friendship with what we thought was a side character until the surprise announcement of the wedding.
I agree. That is the point I have been trying to make as well.
Yep. He was in it as much as he should be, up until now.
It wasn't Black Jack that fished her out of the water. It was corporal Hawkins.
gertt wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "I think when Diana wrote the book, she wanted Jamie to be a bit of a surprise. A casual friendship with what we thought was a side character until the surprise announcement of the w..."Gertt,thats right Jamie told Clair Leghar made him burn and then someone made mention that their were other young ladies at the castle that looked him over-I kind of think though Diana didn`t say more about them that Leghair may have had some competition Jamie always told her he was a virgin,not a monk.
I love that "side character" snuck in under our very noses. But to me it was evident that having ridden for wet days and nights coddled in the saddle and his lap, that Claire was meant to be with this young bucko. But that idea is a great POV, Wendy.I had a thought about the April resumption of the series: Feb/mar will be taken up with all the brouhaha over 50 Shades. That's due for release on Valentine's Day so female and public attention will be sucked into that black hole for awhile. April is the perfect time for Jamie, as he sweeps Christian Grey off the table and takes his rightful place as King of All Men. Doncha think? Starz and Sony are being media conscious.
Wendy F wrote: "I agree also, I've always had a soft spot for Frank."Me too. Always felt sorry for poor Frank.
Also agree that I think we will start to see more Jamie in the 2nd half, which is pretty much how it is in the book.
gertt wrote: "Brizo wrote: " Re the mental hospital"In Voyager, p 20-25, [spoilers removed]
No mention of a mental hospital."
Oh that was it, she said something I thought about it 1800's they thought you were a witch and in her time they put you in a mental hospital. Then sometime in a later book I thought she described it in more detail. But I could be wrong.
Zoey wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "I agree also, I've always had a soft spot for Frank."Me too. Always felt sorry for poor Frank.
Also agree that I think we will start to see more Jamie in the 2nd half, which is p..."
Actually in the book it started after the wedding but they cut most of the Jamie and Claire parts out, to accommodate their new stuff plus which it was mostly outdoor stuff and I'm assuming Scotland starts getting cold with bad weather, probably another reason for the 6 month break.
Ellen wrote: "I love that "side character" snuck in under our very noses. But to me it was evident that having ridden for wet days and nights coddled in the saddle and his lap, that Claire was meant to be with t..."No, I think Starz who got a big customer bump from Outlander is going to notice people cancelling the premium channel it until next April when 2 of their better series return Outlander and Black Sails. I don't think this is media savvy at all. As for 50 shades of grey, it's an entirely different audiences.
Kathy Anne wrote: "gertt wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "I think when Diana wrote the book, she wanted Jamie to be a bit of a surprise. A casual friendship with what we thought was a side character until the surprise announc..."Yes, that was in the book, one of the discussions they had the night of the (view spoiler).
gertt wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "I think when Diana wrote the book, she wanted Jamie to be a bit of a surprise. A casual friendship with what we thought was a side character until the surprise announcement of the w..."No, they were together long before the he took her back to the stones, (view spoiler)
I have been a fan of the books for 14 years and have really enjoyed the whole series. I think Tobias is doing an awesome job of showing the human side of Frank and the depravity that is Black Jack. I agree with everyone else that the scene at Craigh Na Dun between Claire and Frank was so great. Makes me hooked even more to the television series.
Oops! I forgot to mention that I loved seeing both wee Roger and Hugh Munro.
Lisa wrote: "gertt wrote: "M. wrote: "And someone linked me to this essay a reader wrote about the scene to come. I thought it was very interesting, her interpretation of it and of Jamie and Claire's relationsh..."I agree, that was a great analysis the person who wrote that essay did, she really opened my eyes to some things.
Ellen wrote: "apparently, even Terry, the costue designer of the show is having active conversations/dialogues/interactions on her blog terrydressbach.com . Here is her response the the vociferous ( via interne..."I don't know Ellen, I keep wondering if you work for the production company.. Lol!
"
gertt wrote: "I agree about Frank, MrsBooks. And, I think you're right, if they are going to add scenes, such as Frank searching for Claire, then they should have more episodes...it's hard to cover the book as ..."You know instead of re-writting new stuff for Frank, they could of wrote new stuff for Jamie and Claire. It would of been more interesting and in line with where the story is going. (view spoiler)
Kathy Anne wrote: "Wendy I hope that spoiler tags can be put on that darned spanking episode too it seems 2/3rds of the posts are spanking and it isn`t in this book either"I don't want to pop your bubble, but (view spoiler)
Erin wrote: "Oops! I forgot to mention that I loved seeing both wee Roger and Hugh Munro."I would of prefered seeing the J&C fishing scene, and the time J&C spent in the mountains/ferns.. which was cut. As for Munro scene I thought that a total waste of time in such a shortened episode. They left out the whole thing about the Water-horse when Claire is down by the lake and see's the monster which has implications later in the book. So I don't know who's choosing what to add and cut but IMO they are doing a pretty lousy job of it.
I think much of what has been on these last few episodess except Wedding are maybe geared toward the men,I get a distinctly masculine aftertaste after they are over,not a bad thing because the more audience the better and I really can`t see why the guys wouldn`t like them if they could only be roped and tied I guess.I still haven`t had any desire to see a rerun of this last ep. again maybe my focus is too strong in Jamies direction and if he`s not there I get bored.
Kathy Anne wrote: "I think much of what has been on these last few episodess except Wedding are maybe geared toward the men,I get a distinctly masculine aftertaste after they are over,not a bad thing because the more..."I agree with you about the male thing, everytime they add boob scene I think that. But they are breaking ground even doing a show where the sex scenes are written for women, so I do give them credit for that.
I don't think they've made the best use of their stars (Jamie especially). I think that's a male thing too.
Well I certainly agree since my whole history with Outlander is all about Jamie all the time.I guess I focus on him to the exclusion of almost everything else.I do that with all the books and movies I watch and so it has to be a real big deal to drag my attention away from him or any other male lead.It looks like they are making less and less use of Jamie the last few episodes to me.
I don't know what it is, I just don't think they are giving him the role he should be having. I thought for a while that Ron was jealous of him (LOL!) that's why he was pushing dull Frank.
I think Rom is staying true to this portion of the story and Claire was not yet bound to Jamie in their relationship yet. From Clair's point of view it was still Frank that she was truly married to. Telling his back story is not unreasonable at this point. I am sure that Jamie will be the focus when we come back from the break. Their relationship builds from this point in the story. I am not a Frank fan but I am a fan of Outlander and I like how they are fleshing it out. My biggest concern is that they should have like 22 episodes to do the whole book justice, instead of 16 episodes.
Yes, I think they needed more episodes too, and not have this break in the middle. Practically speaking I think they cut it short because they were not quite prepared for the Scottish weather, and they hired the actors especially Claire last minute. She has said she only had a week after she was hired to do her first scene. So this break gives them all a chance to catch up as much as I hate it, perhaps it will give the script writers a chance to read all the books.
It's also common in lots of cable series to split the season in two - Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Walking Dead, The Closer, even The Sopranos did it.
Yeah I hate that trend with splitting the season. The first season of Walking Dead was brutal with only 6 episodes and having to wait till the next October. I think they had no idea how popular it would be. I think with a split like this they need to have more episodes to each half of the split. But then again I am an addict for Outlander and you give me 16 and I want 20 - give me 20 and I want 24 etc.
Absolutely - that's why the best way to watch a television series you love is a whole season over a few days.
Brizo wrote: "Ellen wrote: "apparently, even Terry, the costue designer of the show is having active conversations/dialogues/interactions on her blog terrydressbach.com . Here is her response the the vociferous..."I wish. And if that were to ever happen, I'll be sure to let you know.
