"The Falling Woman" by Pat Murphy (BR)

[Gabi]

Roll call for the award winning novel in an archaeological/Mayan setting with female MCs.

Nebula Award 1987.

Who will join me next week in a hopefully interesting buddy read?

As always: please use spoiler tags and refer to chapter or percentage while discussing your impressions.

[Anthony]

I’ll be there!

[Jemppu]

o/ count me in

[Lesley]

I’m in for this!

[Jordan]

Oh, I'll try and fit this one in!

[Wen]

I will try this one too!

[Gabi]

Woohoo! Terrific! I'm looking forward to this.

[Mareike]

I'll definitely try to fit it in!

[Carolyn]

I just downloaded from Hoopla so I’d like to join!

[Gabi]

I've seen that some folks read this book at the moment. Join the BR, let us know what you think.

[Lesley]

I’m through Ch 8 and so far I’m drawn into Elizabeth's and Diane's relationship. There's a lot that I can relate to there. It feels like contemporary fiction with a dash of supernatural. I’m hoping the supernatural takes more precedence soon. Also enjoying the archaeology. I don’t know much about Mayan history, but the trappings of the field school feel authentic. The author clearly did her research.

Curious how others are finding the writing. Overall I’m not too impressed with it, but the story is more than enough to keep me reading.

[Gabi]

Thanks, Lesley. I haven't started yet, but I'm curious about the Maya part of the story.
(Probably I can't say much about the writing, cause as long as the plot interests me I don't care much about that)

[Lesley]

I look forward to hearing your thoughts when you do start, Gabi. I think the plot is very strong. Writing-wise, there have been a few eye-rolling moments for me, such as this one from Ch 6 referring to Carlos:(view spoiler)[”He was a fisherman, choosing his bait carefully with a certain fish in mind.” (hide spoiler)]

[Jemppu]

Lesley wrote: "...I’m drawn into Elizabeth's and Diane's relationship. There's a lot that I can relate to there...."

Same. While it's curious to see how that dynamic is handled here, I also keep hoping there'd be something 'new' ahead as well. Which is a bizarre stance from my usual one: typically focused on the very individuals, their relationships, self-reflections, and viewing the plot secondary to those aspects, but here I find myself hoping the story would have something to spice it up. Which it really hasn't yet... and as you say, there's nothing captivating about the rather 'standard' writing either.

Recognizing the occasional familiar (and 'over used') thought must be what's holding my attention so far. But as the book's one main relationship isn't able to create any 'novel' fascination, or is nowhere close enough (within a narrower scale) to speak in any sense of "this is so us!" either (and even if it did, that'd be dull aspect for any wider conversation), on a whole this has thus far been left rather bland.

[Anthony]

I find the writing to be subtle and nuanced and spare in a way that draws me in. At the same time, because both of our narrators have pretty hefty walls that they put up, I do feel a little at arm’s length from keenly feeling the emotional impact. A word I used to describe the book in one of my updates was “contemplative” and I think that’s accurate, and it’s something I appreciate.

I think Murphy’s approach is a delicate one, and I applaud her for that.

[Anthony]

I also feel like she writes about the setting very well. I really feel like I’m in that camp with them.

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "... A word I used to describe the book in one of my updates was “contemplative” and I think that’s accurate, and it’s something I appreciate...."

I agree, that's a very apt word to describe it, and the thing to appreciate. Thank you for bringing it up! Even though the contemplation may not personally feel as fresh and thought provoking as one would hope, I didn't mean to say it wouldn't still be essential for it to be there, and the very thing to hold you drawn to these characters or their story.

I like your observation about the personalities keeping you at arms lenght too. Sounds legit, and like a success in portrayal.

[Lesley]

Thanks for your thoughts about the writing style. Anthony, I like the characterization of “contemplative.” It does feel measured and deliberate, and the more I think about what I don’t like about the writing, the more it seems to relate to the minor characters, which subsequently feel a bit like caricatures.

Jemppu, I agree that the writing mostly feels “standard” to me, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not fully captured by the story and setting. So far it’s one of those books that I start reading, time passes without notice, and then I suddenly surface in the real world like I’m coming up for air.

[Mareike]

Haven't gotten to this one yet, but I'll catch up with all your thoughts once I've started! I'm definitely intrigued about it already.

[Gabi]

Only some pages in: (view spoiler)['My Hands tell more of my history than my face. They are tanned and wrinkled and I can trace the paths of veins along their backs. The nails are short and hard, like the claws of some digging animal, and the wrists are marked with vertical white scars, a permanent record of my attempt to escape my former husband and the world in the most drastic way possible.' (hide spoiler)].
I like that.

[Lesley]

Gabi wrote: "Only some pages in: [spoilers removed].
I like that."

Thank you for picking out a passage that also spoke to me early on. I think I’ve just been getting increasingly lost in some of the more mundane, and dare I say cheesy, metaphors as the book progresses.

[Gabi]

My pleasure! :) - I'm not much further. Although I like the fact that the protagonist is a grumpy middle aged woman (I refrain from the term "old" that's used in the book, cause she is my age and that makes me feel like a granny :D )

[Jemppu]

Gabi wrote: "My pleasure! :) - I'm not much further. Although I like the fact that the protagonist is a grumpy middle aged woman (I refrain from the term "old" that's used in the book, cause she is my age and t..."

I was predicting there would be some hype for the cast ^^'

[Gabi]

Hype?

[Dawn F]

Oh dear, this is on my tbr list and I’d forgotten. Better bump it up!

[Jemppu]

Gabi wrote: "Hype?"

Expressions of enthusiasm.

[Lesley]

Ch 11: (view spoiler)[”Thinking about my wedding to Robert is like seeing stones at the bottom of a clear running stream. I can see them, but I know their shapes are distorted by the water's movement, that the colors I see are not their true colors. I know that the stones are not as smooth as they look, but I can’t touch them to be sure. The water is too cold and treacherous; I cannot venture closer to investigate. I must keep my distance.”

This description of memory, especially painful memories, feels so true in so many ways. Slowly changing my mind about some of the writing here. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 17: (view spoiler)[ I really felt the power of the last scene where Liz's past and present collide. It felt very visceral and grounded and traumatic. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

@Lesley, reg #11: I'm now 6 chapters in and I, too, have the feeling that there is very little supernatural to a contemporary story. (view spoiler)[ The hints at the sightings of the past are intriguing and I love the idea. But I had hoped that at a quarter of the book the author would go somewhere with it. At the moment it feels like wasted time.
Even though the personal tales take up too much space for my taste (or rather I would have loved to read about them as flashbacks inserted in a supernatural plot), I appreciate the take on Elisabeth's depression not being the result of domestic violence (as far as we know at this point in the story) but an underlying frustration with the way her life is going. This gives her character a deeper layer. (hide spoiler)]

With the writing I'm okay. I can see your points, Lesley, but I guess it is due to me not being native English speaking that it doesn't bother me.

What I forgot: I love the archaeological setting. Archaeology always has been an interest of mine, so it is great to read about it. And the mention of a typewriter made me so nostalgic.

[Gabi]

@Anthony reg #15: I, too, feel that the distanced view in the two protagonists works well in this circumstance.

@Dawn, come on, join! This one is a quick and easy read.

[Jordan]

Have my library copy and hoping to get started on my lunch break today.

[Lesley]

Finished this yesterday evening: (view spoiler)[ Overall, I was really moved by the story and there were some really powerful scenes, mainly concerning Liz’s struggle with mental illness, being a mother, her relationship with Tony and the “ghosts of the past.” Those scenes were written with great care and honesty.

I’m still less than thrilled with other parts of the writing. There are some very well captured feelings and moments, such as the ones I noted in my post above. After finishing the book, I wished that it had ended one chapter sooner. And the last line in particular almost spoiled the whole emotional climax of the previous chapters for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Lesley wrote: "Ch 11: ..."

That's a beautiful quote, indeed. When she gets to descriptions of the feelings of the MCs she feels true.

I finished chapter 11. Half point (vacation is over so my eye reading is slowing down considerably) (view spoiler)[ tbh I could do with a bit more mystic. Hope these themes pick up finally. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Jordan wrote: "Have my library copy and hoping to get started on my lunch break today."

Yeah! Let us know what you think, Jordan.

[Gabi]

Lesley wrote: "Finished this yesterday evening: ..."

Finished as well: (view spoiler)[I take back what I said about the lack of supernatural. All in all it was very appropriate how it was done for the kind of story it was supposed to be. The handling of the feelings of mother and daughter totally got me. Pat Murphy has a wonderful understanding for this kind of lost souls and she got this across masterfully.

I also loved the title of the novel which was fitting in more than one layer.

I was thinking about what you said regarding the last chapter, Lesley. In general I'm very much for open endings, but in this case I must admit that I needed the mellowing down at the end, cause the feeling the novel managed to build up in me during the last part of the book needed some pampering. (hide spoiler)]

[Lesley]

Gabi, Re: the end (view spoiler)[ I’m mostly ok with the wrap up (knowing she gets out safely and Diane leaves), but the scene when they’re on the bridge at Berkeley felt really trite, like I was watching a after school TV special, which didn’t fit at all with the deep, emotional journey the characters had just been on. It was too neatly packaged of an ending for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Jordan]

Okay, just about to start chapter 7: (view spoiler)[I'm loving the older protagonist who is grumpy and not really a people person. I like the comment about archaeologists preferring their subjects to be dead versus anthropologists who like people. I majored in archaeology/anthropology in college, and that was so accurate to my experience. I'm definitely interested in the whole seeing the past bit that the mother has going on that seems to somewhat affect the daughter too. I'm super curious about what's going to be under the stone. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

@ Jordan: I loved the comments on archaeology, too. Also when sb (Tony?) said that they would take everything slow cause of their profession.

[Mareike]

Gabi wrote: "Only some pages in: [spoilers removed].
I like that."

That was really well done!
I thought chapter one was a pretty intriguing introduction to Elizabeth. I like (view spoiler)[how irreverent and maybe even unlikeable (by common measures) she is.

I chuckled at this: 'I can be rude to young men.' I sipped my coffee. 'It's one of the few compensations for growing old.'

I also find the "Notes" before and after that first chapter interesting structurally and as a way to add information. I look forward to seeing how these will continue. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

Mareike wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Only some pages in: [spoilers removed].
I like that."

That was really well done!
I thought chapter one was a pretty intriguing introduction to Elizabeth. I like .. ."

I didn't even (view spoiler)[ think of her as unlikeable. Even though I would never leave my child I totally could understand her. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Gabi wrote: "Mareike wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Only some pages in: [spoilers removed].
I like that."

That was really well done!
I thought chapter one was a pretty intriguing introduction to Elizabeth. I like .. ."
..."

I think I thought about (view spoiler)[unlikeability not in connection of her leaving her child - it's very clear she needed to get out of that relationship even in that first chapter - but more because she's so bent on doing her own thing and doesn't really care about pleasing people or living up to their expectations, as the story about the interview makes clear. And for women or female characters that often makes them be seen as "difficult" or unlikeable. But I actually like female characters like that - also because we don't get that many of them in media. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

@Mareike: (view spoiler)[ The leaving the child part was only meant as the one example I wouldn't do, all the rest of her behaviour feels quite natural to me. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Ah gotcha! (view spoiler)[Right, but that's exactly what I mean. There's a lot of stuff I can identify with in that first chapter, but looking at literature (and other media) with a longer perspective in mind, female characters like Elizabeth often appear as warnings or to be punished precisely because they don't conform with "culturally dominant" ideas about femininity. So I always appreciate it when we get unlikeable female characters who don't necessarily or exclusively have that function. Though I guess it's to early to really judge that for this novel. (hide spoiler)]

[Lesley]

Mareike wrote: "Ah gotcha! [spoilers removed]"

Completely agree with everything you said. It is refreshing to see an independent, self-possessed female character whose story is fully three dimensional, rather than serving as a plot device.

[Mareike]

Somewhere in chapter 6. So far the book hasn't really grabbed me (but it also has to compete against hiking trails in the French Alps, which is a tall order).

I do like the descriptions of characters, especially the grad students. And I thought (view spoiler)[Elizabeth telling her daughter what happened during the latter's childhood was incredibly honest and raw. And it made me thing of Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique Though I'm still waiting to see a real reaction from Diane. I mean....I'd have a lot of feelings if I learned thinga like that about my Mom. (hide spoiler)]

[Carolyn]

I believe I’m on Chapter 4 now. Enjoying the development of characters. Found it amusing that there are comments about “when will the supernatural elements begin?” Elizabeth is seeing and and talking to dead people from Chapter 1 (I think) and that qualifies as “supernatural” to me. :)

[Jordan]

Finished this! (view spoiler)[Was I the only one who was bored to death with the constant trips to town to hang out with the boys? It seemed like every other chapter it was the weekend and they were heading back there. More mysterious ruins and less hammock selling please.

I really want to read more about the Maya now though. I love it when books make me want to look into their subjects further.

As for the ending. I liked the fact that it decompressed from the big emotional confrontation/struggle in the caves, but I agree that the whole bridge scene felt a little on the Hallmark Channel side. (hide spoiler)]

[Joelle.P.S]

Necroposting!

I started this last month, but then kept getting distracted by other reading deadlines. Finally finished today.

Re: the boys in town (view spoiler)[ I found the coerced-sex scene rather uncomfortable. I was only skimming the pages from the beach through the bedroom, & I was glad that Asshole disappeared from the story. (hide spoiler)]

I liked bits of the story but, as others mentioned, there was the (probably deliberate) emotional distance from the main characters, & the not-fully-fleshed insights into side characters, but the story was interesting enough that I did keep coming back to it between other books. 3 stars.