McGuire, Seanan-- The Unkindest Tide -- informal buddy read starts September 3, 2019

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This thread is open to discuss The Unkindest Tide by Seanan McGuire



Synopsis
Hundreds of years ago, the Selkies made a deal with the sea witch: they would have the sea for as long as she allowed it, and when the time came, she would call in all their debts at once. Many people assumed that day would never come. Those people were wrong.

When the Luidaeg—October "Toby" Daye's oldest and most dangerous ally—tells her the time has come for the Selkies to fulfill their side of the bargain, and that Toby must be a part of the process, Toby can't refuse. Literally. The Selkies aren't the only ones in debt to the Luidaeg, and Toby has to pay what she owes like anyone else. They will travel to the fabled Duchy of Ships and call a convocation of the Selkies, telling them to come and meet the Luidaeg's price...or face the consequences.

Of course, nothing is that simple. When Dianda Lorden's brother appears to arrest Dianda for treason against the Undersea, when a Selkie woman is stripped of her skin and then murdered, when everything is falling apart, that's when Toby will have to answer the real question of the hour.

Is she going to sink? Or is she going to swim?

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[Cathy M.]

I got my copy so ready whenever you guys are!

[Devann]

@Nari not sure if you know already but this is book 13 in a series so i really would not recommend starting here, but it is a very good series :)

@Cathy not sure if i'm gonna start this tomorrow or wednesday but i think i'm leaning more towards wed

[Claudia]

I get mine tomorrow so will be ready to start tomorrow night

[Devann]

started this morning! how fast i make progress will depend on how much actual work i have to do at work today lol

only four chapters in but definitely very interested to see what happens with all this selkie business. also i know it's not really her fault but i still cannot stand janet. i guess she's hated october for a very long time but you'd think now that she knows she was wrong about the whole situation she could TRY to be a little bit nicer to her instead of being so antagonistic all the time. i'm hoping gillian comes around a little bit since she'll be spending time with october now.

[Devann]

up through chapter nine now. gotta say a lot of people are coming across as very petty in this book lol. like the luidaeg (view spoiler)[i get that she's still upset about the roane but it seems ridiculous that she continues to take it out on people who had nothing to do with it. although i guess she can't take it out on evening so she's probably just lashing out. but she could have just told the selkies to pass the skins to their children if they wanted to and instead she's like 'ok y'all can just kill each other now i totally don't care'. love toby being all protective of gillian though (hide spoiler)]

[Devann]

tybalt however continues to be an absolute delight

(view spoiler)[“Yes, but a T-shirt wouldn’t have been nearly as flattering to your figure.”

I stopped walking in order to fix him with a baleful eye. He didn’t even flinch. “Are you seriously going to stand there and talk about my tits when things are this messed up?”

“Be reasonable, October; I could have been talking about your ass.” Tybalt looked at me haughtily. “My interests are far more versatile than you give me credit for.” (hide spoiler)]

[Cathy M.]

I started last night & got thru Chpt 7 -

(view spoiler)[The Duchy of Ships is another wild crazy setting - loving it! And Cpt Pete - love the nicer sibling relationship for Luidaeg which is something we don't really get in this world. Hoping this doesn't change!!! How funny was it when Dean fainted at the sight of her and wouldn't wake up. Poor Dean :P

The 1st few chpts were A LOT of recaps. I get that author's do this for people who are joining in late (?) but come on people, you shouldn't start at a #13 in a series... Also for those of us who have waited a while for the last book but I wish that they just did a brief summary before the book starts so that we don't get so much recapping and get more new content earlier on. Didn't Anne Bishop do that in her Others series?

Anyways, ugh that scene in the kitchen with Janet & Gillian really got my blood boiling again. I really really loathe Janet. And Gillian needs to grow the f**k up. Seriously. Yes October disappeared for 14 years but IT WASN'T HER FAULT OR HER CHOICE!!! Give her a break! Gillian still acts almost like a spoiled little brat & I'm really not liking her. Here's hoping her attitude gets better *fingers crossed*

When I thought about the deal the Luidaeg made with the Selkies, and how she said the price was coming due, for some reason I thought it was that they had to give the skins back. Not that they would have the choice to become Roane. And I really thought Gillian would be an exception due to her relationship with Toby. I think we're about to see a whole other side to the Luidaeg soon. (hide spoiler)]

[Cathy M.]

Devann wrote: "started this morning! how fast i make progress will depend on how much actual work i have to do at work today lol

only four chapters in but definitely very interested to see what happens with all ..."

Oh my god that woman. YES, she's totally antagonistic to Toby. And don't you love how she coddles Gillian in front of Toby to rub it in more?! But come on, she's Toby's grandmother! Like they are ACTUALLY family/related by blood. I wish she's just go away. And on this trip someone should actually tell or maybe let slip to Gillian who Janet really is...

[Cathy M.]

Devann wrote: "tybalt however continues to be an absolute delight

“Yes, but a T-shirt wouldn’t have been nearly as flattering to your figure.”

I stopped walking in order to fix him with a baleful eye. He didn’t..."

Not that far yet but I so love Tybalt! I missed him and his formal speak :D

[Devann]

i also wish more authors would just do a quick recap before the actual book because i agree it's so awkward and time consuming to do it in the actual book. mark lawrence did that with his book of the ancestor series and i appreciated it sooo much. \

i give gillian a little more leeway than janet just because she is still so young [even if she is a technical adult] and she's clearly going through some stuff but yeah i do no get why they are constantly attacking october. i get maybe being awkward around her or something and even not necessarily wanting to call her mom, but october is obviously trying to rebuild their relationship and both gillian and janet are being so standoffish. also it's still just soooo weird to me that her grandmother is with her ex-boyfriend lmao but i guess it's almost the least weird thing going on.

[Cathy M.]

Devann wrote: "i also wish more authors would just do a quick recap before the actual book because i agree it's so awkward and time consuming to do it in the actual book. mark lawrence did that with his book of t..."

I couldn't think which series it was but yes, that's the one!

Hahahaha I still get the creeps too when thinking about Janet with Cliff :D There is just way too much animosity on Gillian's part, even though she knows why October disappeared. Granted she is going thru a lot with being thrust into the fae world, but she's not even making an effort at all. Was hoping it was still denial before but some months have passed now. Gotta wonder how much Janet is in her ear as well. And how does Janet expect to keep being around with Cliff, while not aging? She'll have to disappear eventually right?

[Devann]

yeah i'm sure janet has been telling gillian bad things about october for ages which i'm sure isn't helping. and that's a good point about her not aging. i figured october probably aged her disguise as the years passed but janet doesn't have any magic so i wonder how long she will be able to keep this up. i feel like surely cliff has to find everything out before too long. there's just so much going on and now with gillian going full fae as well i feel like he has to stumble onto sooner or later. i wonder how he will feel about all of them lying to him if that happens.

[Cathy M.]

He’s a little clueless so as hurt as he would be, I think he’d just be in denial. Then maybe angry. With our luck he’d just be angry with Toby because everything is always her fault *shakes head* but he’s like a doormat in my mind so I can just picture him standing there looking confused.

Just got to end of Chpt 7 and that scene with Diva was a little heartbreaking! Actually teared up. All these people who thought of the Luidaeg as just Cousin Annie...

[Cathy M.]

Gah just got thru Ch 8 and WTF?!?!?! Things are about to get crazy!!! can Selkies die? Or are they fae enough with the skins so the whole can’t kill each other thing applies? Can’t remember that part.

Ugh have meeting soon so have to stop for now :(

[Devann]

i'm on chapter 20 i think so about to finish up, but i just love how toby can't leave her house basically without someone getting murdered or someone trying to start a war lol. every time she's like 'yeah everything is great and relaxing' i'm just like mmhmmmmm

also there are so many cute toby/tybalt moments in this book! i hope their wedding is going to be sooooon. i wonder if she's trying to save that for the last book or something or if it's going to be soon

[Claudia]

Cathy M. wrote: "Devann wrote: "started this morning! how fast i make progress will depend on how much actual work i have to do at work today lol

only four chapters in but definitely very interested to see what ha..."

@ both of you on Janet

I was reminded how much I hate Janet when I re-read book 12. This book just drove it home more. Like seriously you stole her family and have to keep rubbing it in.

I’m also starting to get annoyed with Gillian cause she is definitely doing ti to shoving her dislike of October’s face. I know Janet has been feeding her hatred but I really wanted to shake her these last few chapters with how she treats Toby. Like kid get an outside opinion and ask questions to find out what really happened. She knows about Faerie no and still thinks Toby Just ran out on her? Seriously if Toby was a deadbeat like that she wouldn’t keep coming to you rescue whenever stuff goes down.

[Claudia]

Ok I am about halfway into chapter 13 because I only started tonight when I got to work. I really wish the audiobook on this one was out already so I could listen to it when I drive and stuff.
I’m going to start with a question I had during the first couple of chapters.

Why couldn’t Gillian take the elf-shot cure after she finished the transition to Selkie. Like the reason she can’t give up the cloak is cause the elf shot is going to be in her for the next 100 years and if she takes it off she’ll go back to human and die. SO why could she not take the elf shot cure while wearing the selkie skin? Then it would be out of her system right?

As per usual it’s not an October mission if they don’t get sidetracked by other things and if Toby doesn’t get impaled and bleed all over the place multiple times.

[Cathy M.]

Claudia wrote: "Cathy M. wrote: "Devann wrote: "started this morning! how fast i make progress will depend on how much actual work i have to do at work today lol

only four chapters in but definitely very interest..."

Right?! You'd think Toby saving her a couple of times would get her some points. At least make Gillian think a little more about the situation. Though to be fair, Gillian was constantly targeted because of Toby but still.

Finally able to read a little more tonight yay!

[Cathy M.]

Claudia wrote: "Ok I am about halfway into chapter 13 because I only started tonight when I got to work. I really wish the audiobook on this one was out already so I could listen to it when I drive and stuff.
I’m ..."

That is an EXCELLENT question!!!! I didn't even think about the cure. Did they not even mention that in the last book, after she was poisoned?

I'm only on Chp 9 & won't be able to stay up too late because its already past midnight & I was trying for the last 90 min to access my email which is powered thru Yahoo :/ Damn site...

[Devann]

@Claudia i know! and i mean i guess gillian does keep getting kidnapped bc people want to get to october but also ...STILL NOT OCTOBER'S FAULT???? and like she always comes to save her so she clearly cares. i mean it's not unrealistic i guess but it is infuriating lol

and that's such a good question about the elf shot ...i can never remember how it works with selkies because i thought it was something weird. like didn't connor die from it because he was a selkie and was technically 'human' underneath the skin but then they put the skin on gillian to save her from the elf shot so i'm like ??? but yeah you'd think she could take the cure if she is doing okay with the skin ...

[Claudia]

@Devann from what I remember it wasn't the elf shot that killed Connor but that he bled out from his wound and the way he was shot because they didn't have time to stop and put pressure on his wound.

[Devann]

oh yeah you are right! i knew it was something stupid on their part lol. it was literally that when someone is shot with elf shot they don't think 'oh hey that is a pointy arrow stabbed into someone' bc they are so preoccupied with the sleeping part of it

[Devann]

also do you guys want to try the i bring the fire books next week? i'm reading mackenzi lee's new loki book now and i can tell i'm gonna need to reread them anyway to have more loki in my life lol

[Cathy M.]

Devann wrote: "also do you guys want to try the i bring the fire books next week? i'm reading mackenzi lee's new loki book now and i can tell i'm gonna need to reread them anyway to have more loki in my life lol"

Let's do it!

[Devann]

ok cool, i think i'm going to request it for next wednesday if that's ok because the way that the lava challenge is set up that will just be easier for me

[Claudia]

I am in for the book as well.

[Claudia]

I finished.

(view spoiler)[First I would like to start with....... Gilly is kind of stupid. Like I get she is pissed and scared because people keep grabbing her to use against October but honestly she is dumb. She keeps pushing October away and now she tells her because of the danger to stay away from her. That is nto going to work because while everyone can see Gilly hates Toby that doesn’t mean Toby hates Gilly. So everyone still knows that they can use her to get at Toby. So Toby is going to stay away and Gilly is still going to get attacked and used against Toby. Toby will then go and save Gilly and this cycle will continue. If anything she should get closer so they have a harder time grabbing her or something but ugh like Petey said she’s kind of stupid but Toby loves her and that all that matters.

Secondly one of my favorite things about this book will remain Tybalt and how happy he got when Toby made the offhand comment about them having kids and he suddenly realized that’s on the table. He was so obviously into the idea. And then Toby totally afraid of what their kid will be like. Can you picture the type of kid they would have together? Then also his happiness that Toby seems to think for their marriage happening soon and not waiting like years for it to happen.

Also Toby can totally recover from having pieces of her spine ripped out if she is fed blood. Like what?

Toby making another deal with the Luidaeg part of which is that she has to go and save Simon. But let’s be serious that was always the plan for Toby once she actually started to like Simon when he was on the redemption arc before he forgot it all to save August. She needed to bring him home not just to help him but because she owes it to Sylvester.

Dude the part of the book where Luidaeg stated she could have taken Toby when she was a kid and raised her as her own but didn’t do it and sent Sylvester instead because she wasn’t ready to be a Mom again totally made me wonder what Toby would have been like if she had been raised by Luidaeg. That’s a fanfic prompt waiting to be written by someone.

Luidaeg realizing that as she has sworn she will kill Toby one day means she has to and it’s going to hurt cause Toby is now family to her and Toby just brushing it off and being like we’ll break your curse before that day comes seems like foreshadowing the future. I wonder if it’s going to happen in future books? (hide spoiler)]

[Devann]

i agree that gillian needs to get with it and start thinking things through more.

and toby and tybalt and are just so adorable (view spoiler)[especially like you said when they're in the middle of something and just stop to go 'wait, you want kids too????' like you guys it's great that you're on the same page but SO NOT THE TIME. yeah their kids will be like indestructible little demons though lol (hide spoiler)]

i am excited about toby having to go save (view spoiler)[simon in the future because i just really love simon even if he is awful half the time. but i mean he was coming around before he got his memories stolen so i think he could be an ally if they get him back again. also 'smartass pseudo asshole' is basically My Type so i was always going to like him at least a bit -_-; (hide spoiler)]

about the foreshadowing (view spoiler)[and luidaeg killing toby i'm wondering if it's going to be like she kills her but then she comes back to life or something like that? because toby has definitely straight up died before - like her heart has stopped etc - but then she still came back from it so i'm wondering if toby's indestructible nature will help her get around it, especially if she becomes full fae in the future. also evening was killed and came back so i'm hoping the luidaeg isn't going to permanently kill her at any rate (hide spoiler)]

also the short story at the end was so cute. poor raj!

[Claudia]

Oh and another thing that I was like (ʘᗩʘ’) over
(view spoiler)[ Toby actually killed someone in this book. Like I was like woah finally. Like seriously I am so sick of the bad guys coming back to cause more problems. And like this book boom Toby kills someone but it’s okay cause they were in a war situation the only time its not against the law to kill. I hate these weird faerie rules . (hide spoiler)]

[Devann]

i know i hate the dumb faerie rules too, they're so hypocritical. but yeah it was interesting that things work so differently in the undersea

[Claudia]

Devann wrote: "also the short story at the end was so cute. poor raj!..."

I loved the Raj story at the end. IT was so cute but also super sad. Like Raj is just the best but I’m super sad for him too and the sacrifices he knows he has to make. I also loved how he sees Tybalt and October.