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message 2: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) I think part of the reason why more adults are turning to YA is reading as a form of escapism, in addition with the fact that TV may have impermeated our culture to such an extent that it is now affecting what we read.

I, for one, am waiting for a change in immigrant and refugee fiction.


message 3: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) Survivor, Big Brother, and American Idol fiction for me.


message 4: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) What is wrong with escapism in fiction?


message 5: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) Stephen wrote: "What is wrong with escapism in fiction?"

Nothing.


message 6: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) Stephen wrote: "What is wrong with escapism in fiction?"

Nothing at all.

So long as people are thinking for themselves, I suppose, which is what I find does not happen when people read for escapism. When reading for escapism, they tend to read what they're told, and that's very dangerous.


message 7: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) Ah, you have a point there Angie. Here's my thought on fiction of all genres. Are you all ready? I mean here's the master layin' it on thick? I warned you.

History tells us what people have done, and maybe even why. Fiction tells us how they saw themselves, and a great deal more of the why in history is answered.

I think the greatest damage to fiction was done by 24/7 news channels. Why read? Why think? Here it is, un/fair and un/balanced, no matter what your personal political view.


message 8: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) Bun: both. :) Initially I meant "read what they're told to read"/read what is acceptable to read/don't read something that you would feel ashamed to read in public. I've gotten into arguments with people when I've suggested a different and better book than something on Oprah's list; they immediately say, "Well, you're not Oprah." They tend to not understand marketing and the pull of having your book promoted on Oprah; it's got to be something classified as general fiction, maybe touching another genre ever so slightly.

Stephen: I can see that. I have a friend who considers himself the Middle of the Middle, and hence, he thinks he's right in every political arena because he stands in the Middle and can see both sides equally, so his opinions are, naturally, the best.

Ultimately, we all want the great topics of our age to have already been discussed and decided for us. I agree that fiction needs to make more of an amends with itself, but I feel like this article comes a little late for the average person; the only time I could even buy "literary" fiction was before school would start, because they would set out their AP English books.

Many writers are writing for movies nowadays; it's a common review I've seen on GR and that scares me to death. I understand wanting to write something that will strike across the board, but I do believe that for whatever is gained by writing something fit for the screen, much more is lost.



message 9: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) I understand wanting to write something that will strike across the board, but I do believe that for whatever is gained by writing something fit for the screen, much more is lost.

Maybe that's why so many books only have chapters 3 pages long. I hate a book like that.


message 10: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) Bun: I didn't miss the point, I'm just off in my own little world today. It got me thinking to classmates who insisted, as modernists sometimes did, that plot was something to be unconcerned with. I agree with certain parts of the article, but it does worry me that the emphasis on plot is going to lead us down a road where literary modernist fiction isn't taken seriously anymore, and stuff like Twilight and the like gets picked up simply because it has a boring, already-been-done plot. The problem is precisely that writers of today's world are NOT looking to the original masters of plot, but just doing their thing blindly, when perhaps one of the biggest turns into modernism was thanks to Sherwood Anderson, who later fell from grace himself, but introduced a new way of writing.

Plot shouldn't just be escapism; it shouldn't just be something you get wrapped up in, only to be spit out later no better or more awakened a person for having read it.

Like I said, I am totally lost in my own world today haha.


message 11: by Félix (last edited Aug 30, 2009 12:19PM) (new)

Félix (habitseven) Angie's world today:





message 12: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) Or maybe that's my world.


message 13: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) I feel like the first one. I am looking at recent pictures of the first boy I fell in love with and it's doing me in a little.


message 14: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) I am so glad I posted this link. This makes me entirely too happy!


message 15: by Lori (last edited Aug 30, 2009 12:42PM) (new)

Lori I do agree, Bun. It lost too much of what makes a good book! I don't mind working, but reading is supposed to be pleasurable. And as for escapism, I feel ALL fiction is escapism. Aren't we leaving our own lives behind to enter into another world, isn't that the whole point? And from there depending on the quality, we see reflections to our own lives.

Otherwise, I can lie on the couch and think about my own life.


message 16: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments Ok, quick comment...if I were to conveniently divide books into "hard work" and "easy and pleasurable" I tend to alternate them...after some tougher books I want to read something lighter, etc. But for me the lines often blur; I finished Hemingway's For Whom The Bell Tolls last week and although the book was hard work I found the reading exhilarating as well.

The implication that people are just now reading "easy" material sometimes, however, as if that's somehow evidence of a dumbed down culture, is bullhockey.




message 17: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) Amen to that BunWat! I stopped reading literary fiction for ten years because it had become incredibly ... well, stupid.


message 18: by Lori (new)

Lori RA - I like to alternate as well. And some books that flow and seem like easy reads are really quite deep and dense! Just because something has a plot doesn't mean it's stoopid.


message 19: by Angie (new)

Angie (angabel) I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who sticks to only one genre, and that includes those who think that by reading classics all year long makes them appear "smart."


message 20: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) Well, anyone who only reads one kind of book all the time is not a sharer of our kind of sickness...the READ it ALL sickness. I'll read the cereal box in the morning, murder mystery in the evening, some Murakami to make me wanna smack myself, or RA, and then actual history! What won't I read is the real question! Oh, true crime. I'm done with that.

Hey, Angie, were taking a swipe at The Whole Five Feet?


message 21: by Lori (new)

Lori They just don't write those cereal boxes like they used to! Damn.


message 22: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) That's for sure.


message 23: by Sarah (last edited Aug 31, 2009 09:20AM) (new)

Sarah | 13814 comments Great article, Stephen. I'm all for infusing a little action into fiction. The authors name-checked in the article (Gaiman, Chabon, Lethem, etc) are all excellent examples. None of them sacrifice anything for it, but their books are made better by the fact that something happens in them. It's possible for a book to have plot and literary merit.


message 24: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) Absolutely. I think most people hear plot and think of movies, but that is not the case. The Wide Sargasso Sea whom no one would call genre, contains plot. Chabon is an excellent writer whom I enjoy very much, mainly because his books are good, and -- gasp --fun to read!


message 25: by Stephen (new)

Stephen (stephenT) With a site like this, http://www.aphorismsgalore.com/ how can we go wrong?


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