High Wages FINISHING Thoughts/discussion questions

[Karen]

Here we can discuss our thoughts/discussion questions on finishing 'High Wages' by Dorothy Whipple.

[Toast]

For a 'light' quick book by DW, it spans a long time and covers such a vast piece of social upheaval. Put simply, when Jane first arrives in Tidsley it is very structured, the model of genteel English society, know your place, men in charge and women have a strict function and role in a class riddled pattern etc; War comes and its all hands on deck, the lines are blurred and a can do approach matters; After the war despite all attempts to fit the original jigsaw puzzle pieces back in their original positions, they just don't fit!
Its a quiet revolution that DW has written in her rich dialect, littered with tripe and Victoria sponge. Not just in Class / Social terms but in a Women's position. And not just in Jane, Lily and Mrs Briggs' characters to name but a few but the release from corsets, sewing and the sink, the ration queue and social equiette to the blissful hills of ready to wear, libraries, education, travel, business and choice.
There is a freshness in the writing perhaps because it is in Northern dialect, a uniqueness in the spelling for certain characters and oddities which adds humour and believibility. These characters are a triumph. I really love 'em. Although I'm not completely sold on the romance angle but it does fit, along with the Income Tax fraud. I do feel sorry for Wilfred - what a lemon!
And the end? What do you think?
Toast

[[deleted user]]

Ooh! I thought I didn't have this one.... and then I found it in my pile of "to read" Persephones! So a little late, I will read and comment this month.

[Susan]

I enjoyed this very much. Jane is a spunky heroine, and I loved the character of down-to-earth Mrs Briggs who befriends her. The Chadwick’s behavior toward their staff was awful — cheating them out of small commissions and starving them to plump up their own meals. Mrs Greenwood was another well developed negative character with her haughty ways. I didn’t think either Sylvia or Noel were as well developed as the other major characters, and I thought the end of the book which focused on Jane and Noel’s relationship was weaker than the beginning. Although he’s “only” a friend, we are given so much more insight into Wilfred—I found myself impatiently thinking that Jane should pick up the violets in that scene. I loved how Mrs Briggs and Jane saved the day for the Briggs family, but wasn’t completely convinced by Mr Briggs’ sudden appreciation for his wife. My prediction for Jane’s London life: the new store will be a success, and she and Wilfred will eventually get together in a relationship that is more friendship than love on her part. But I could also believe she will find someone else altogether.

[Susan]

Toast wrote: "For a 'light' quick book by DW, it spans a long time and covers such a vast piece of social upheaval. Put simply, when Jane first arrives in Tidsley it is very structured, the model of genteel Engl..."

I love your write up, Toast, which reflects the many strands of this rich story. What did you think of the end?

[Toast]

Unconvincing, I'd say Susan. Almost as if DW had run out of ideas. Certainly Jane had. I hope she would go off to London and make a new start in one of the fashion houses where she had been a buyer at. With Wilfred as her flatmate not her lover, that would be to neat but wrong. Maybe she would do something completely different, journalism, study, civil service. Afterall, WW2 wasn't that far away.
Jane has so much to offer but she is bruised, I hope she doesn't retreat into the 'safe' just because, if you know what I mean.
Thank you for being so kind about my input, this is my favourite DW novel, there is so much going on in it. I am so glad everyone is enjoying it and getting something out of it.
Toast

[Suki]

I loved this book, but I agree that the ending is somewhat of a letdown.

I used to work in retail, and could really emphasize with Jane's suffering at the hands of the Chadwicks. Of course, modern shop circumstances are nowhere near as harsh as what Jane and Maggie had to endure, but it is still hard, thankless work for little pay. I was enthralled when Jane set out on her own-- her and Mrs Briggs pulled me right into their excitement.

Most of the characters were very well drawn (Mrs Chadwick taking shavings off the girls' allotment of margarine), and it was certainly fun to see Mrs Greenwood take a step down in the world, and Mrs Briggs finally rise in her husband's estimation.

Although I really wanted Jane to succeed, in the end I didn't really like her very much. She seemed to be very wrapped up in herself, and quite oblivious to the feelings of others. Mrs Briggs and Lily were my favorite characters; I hope that thousand pounds was enough to see the Briggs through the rest of their days. Jane's selling of the shop felt as if she had betrayed Mrs Briggs, after her insistence on making Mrs B a partner in the shop.

This is the second Dorothy Whipple book I have read (Someone at a Distance was the other. I really enjoy her writing, and want to catch up with the Whipple group reads that I missed.

[Toast]

Suki so glad you enjoyed it. It is certainly my fav DW book because it is very different from her usual stuff in some ways but in others it is still about people so nothing changes at all, she is fascinated by characters and what they do in certain circumstances. And she can tell a good story that's for sure. Hard to think that without PBooks, she would have been lost to literature.
Its funny we all tend to think the ending weak. Is it a comment as much about us as modern readers as Jane's character change? She is still young at this stage remember - early to mid 20s (?)- disappointed in love, alone, delightful Mrs B has other things to occupy her now, survived the war so survive the peace, stuck in the same yet not small town as before. There's a whole other book there really.
OOOps, I'm wittering on again. How would you have ended it?
Toast

[Karen]

Just finished and although not my favourite Dorothy Whipple, I still enjoyed it. Mr and Mrs Chadwick are just awful characters!
Loved how DW used the Lancashire dialect too. I also thought the selling of the shop was kind of a betrayal to the lovely Mrs Briggs.
Interesting question Toast, 'How would I have liked the story to have ended?' No doubt the new shop in London would be a great success but I'm not sure about Jane falling in love with poor Wilfred.
I felt the story lost it's way slightly towards the end.
This is my fifth DW book i've read and she certainly knew how to tell a good yarn !

[Toast]

You're so right Karen, there's certainly a lot of food for thought in its pages even if its not on the dinner table for Jane and Maggie after a hard day at Chadwick's shop. And, there is a loss of steam towards the end too. I do feel for poor Jane by then, she's carried everybody, coped with the-set-in-their-ways, come so far and then wallop! the door shuts not even with a slam actually but a polite shut.
And I do think that the foreword to this edition is very good too.
Good choice this one - got people discussing.
Toast

[Karen]

Toast wrote: "You're so right Karen, there's certainly a lot of food for thought in its pages even if its not on the dinner table for Jane and Maggie after a hard day at Chadwick's shop. And, there is a loss of ..." Thanks Toast for recommending this great story : )

[[deleted user]]

I've just posted my review for the book, but came on here to say how much I enjoyed this little gem. A clever tale of a young woman who has managed to pull herself up by her bootstraps to make a success of herself, and then finds that love may sweep all away....
I liked all the female characters here, even the awful ones, as they made up part of the whole. Thanks to Toast.

[Toast]

No need to thank me. We all read it and discussed it, that's what brought the book to life.
It is grand isn't it?
Toast

[[deleted user]]

Just had to come back now and read all the comments (which I didn't do whilst reading). I note that some of you think the ending was weak. I didn't. I think Mrs Briggs was going to be just fine with her investment monies, and after all Mr Briggs may not rise to such an elevated position again, but his experience will let him geta job so money will continue to come in. All the staff at Jane's shop are safe as agreed in the contraact of sale, and Jane..... well, Jane has a broken heart but is a sensible girl. She did it once, she can do it again - and I did understand why Noel felt he must support his family (particularly his son) and actually that was probably all for the best. Wilfred? He may never get the girl, but again he just might; but it's not about Wilfred, is it, it's Jane and her new life. Lovely lovely read.

[Karen]

janetandjohn wrote: "Just had to come back now and read all the comments (which I didn't do whilst reading). I note that some of you think the ending was weak. I didn't. I think Mrs Briggs was going to be just fine wit..." Hello Janet, so happy you enjoyed this book. Jane is such a determined character, with lots of fire in her belly !
Have you read any other of Dorothy's books ?

[[deleted user]]

Karen wrote: "janetandjohn wrote: "Just had to come back now and read all the comments (which I didn't do whilst reading). I note that some of you think the ending was weak. I didn't. I think Mrs Briggs was goin..."

Someone at a distance and The Priory. They were sisters is upstairs waiting!

[Karen]

janetandjohn wrote: "Karen wrote: "janetandjohn wrote: "Just had to come back now and read all the comments (which I didn't do whilst reading). I note that some of you think the ending was weak. I didn't. I think Mrs B..." Hi Janet, We read 'They Were Sisters' back in March this year, so feel free to add to the dicussion when you've read it.