Outlander Series discussion
Archive - Outlander on Starz S1
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Episode 6 - The Garrison Commander - SPOILERS
I can see them holding the consummation off until the last of the first eight episodes...the trailer does not show anything after all. I absolutely love your enthusiasm Ness...I just watched it for the fourth time...Tobias gets creepier every time I see it.
I truly loved your review Paul....there is so much going on, and so much more than we know, unless we have read beyond Outlander to the point the series has covered thus far. This is my biggest issues right now, as I am up to date with the series (in literature)..,,trying to be good is very difficult.
with pleasure ladies:) I have to admit though the credit goes to tumblr:)
Thank you, Paul, for that link. It's good to hear a man's point of view.
I want to compliment everyone in this group for recognizing the difference between character and actor. I cannot stand to hear someone put down an actor because they hate the character. I make my DH watch this with me. He is not a reader so all this is new to him. He doesn't know what is coming with this show and what these characters are about to do. He was shocked at the flogging(which was so much worse than what my mind came up with) and the surprise punch to Claire's stomach. I am glad the show ended with one of my favorite parts, Jamie's virginity. I remember laughing out loud in surprise when I first read that. Can't wait until next week. I love his sexy laugh in the preview when Claire interrupts his kiss by asking about his family.
In an interview with Menzies on io9, Menzies says, "And in [episode] eight we're going to go back to Frank again, which is a large departure from the book. We get to see what's happened to him in the few months since the disappearance of Claire."
That could explain the episode title, "Both Sides Now."
Another point that was brought up in the interview, and I'd totally missed this connection when I read the books, are the similarities between what BJR does and what Frank did as part of MI6 during World War II (e.g., interrogating prisoners).
Oh wow! I never made that connection either.The "best books" all seem to possess this quality, the ability to give you something new or different, every time you read, or see, or think about them.
Dawn wrote: "I truly loved your review Paul....there is so much going on, and so much more than we know, unless we have read beyond Outlander to the point the series has covered thus far. This is my biggest issues right now, as I am up to date with the series (in literature)..,,trying to be good is very difficult. "Thanks, Dawn - I felt exactly the same about the first season of Game of Thrones. Of course, there's always a chance with television that it will take liberties with the book (or, in the case of The Walking Dead, the comic book).
But, in the meantime, it's good that you're being so good :)
Ellen wrote: "Thank you, Paul, for that link. It's good to hear a man's point of view."Thanks, Ellen - glad you enjoyed.
I think I'm desensitized. I didn't think it was that bad. I was more upset with the little boy at the scaffold a few episodes back. There's only one episode from book one I'm truly dreading, and I think you know the part I mean.
@Lindsay: yes, I know which part. but this visual of the flaying of his back...well...I remember the first time I watched Alien. I had to keep reminding myself of the brilliance of Giger's designs, and not get too creeped out. It was the same with this scene for me. And yet, it's still pretty bad watching it again. And it's a vital part to the story, and what comes after...to that other part of which you speak.
I agree completely with your analysis, Gertt.
Wendy F wrote: "Please do not post book spoilers that will happen in the future in this thread. We have a LOT of new members joining who are just finding the series and haven't finished the book or read further y..."If you're going to tell people to add a clickable spoiler warning, then I suggest that you tell them the HTML code to do that, not everyone who posts is a computer programmer or knows HTML code.
Brizo...i am doing this adding spaces when you shoukd not use any, otherwise it won't show up...< spoiler > type your post then end with < \ spoiler >.
This episode was very well done, even if a bit disturbing in its content. It had lots of tension and insight into the characters. The acting by Caitriona Balfe, Tobias Menzies, Graham McTavish, and Sam Heughan was all excellent. However it had parts I really disliked too. There were changes made from the book by the screen writers that I really didn't like. I don’t mind changes when they make sense for instance to make the book more visual, or move quicker than perhaps the book might. But I think that changes should stay in character with the book and not add things that make no sense to the books characters. (view spoiler)
Dawn wrote: "Brizo...i am doing this adding spaces when you shoukd not use any, otherwise it won't show up...type your post then end with ."
Thanks that helps
Anytime. It took me forever to remember it. I did not think this was a spoiler free zone, but there you go.
Brizo,You make some good points but where I don't agree with you is that Claire could not have sympathy knowing what she knows about BJR. Remember at this point, she is not that invested in Jamie...she likes him yes, but her husband is Frank and when she looks at BJR she is staring him in the face. I can see where she would let her guard down and have sympathy for him, even with what has already transpired.
Brizo wrote: "Wendy F wrote: "Please do not post book spoilers that will happen in the future in this thread. We have a LOT of new members joining who are just finding the series and haven't finished the book o..."In addition, Goodreads offers instructions in the spot above the text box that reads (some html is ok) for those that are not html savvy. Goodreads provides ALL of the html tricks that they have available in that link, which is where most of us learned how to do it.
We've also posted a whole thread dedicated to the spoiler tag, and any other fun ones. That is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
The no spoiler rule has been in effect for a long time now, as before we took over moderating the group we lost a lot of regular members due to rampant spoilers.
This thread is not a spoiler free zone, obviously you can talk about the television show up to the episode being discussed. But there are a lot of new members who are joining now and just learning about Outlander from the show. They haven't read all of the books. It doesn't seem outrageous to ask members to not discuss future scenes/plots that haven't happened yet. If you want to discuss that freely, you are welcome to make a thread in MISC where you can discuss everything completely, without worry about spoiling the story for newer fans.
We try to be fair, we hope that all the members also try to be fair.
Thank you so much for posting the thread for spoiler tags, pictures etc. For those of us that are not only new to Goodreads, but are also new to computers it is a great help!!! I've been wondering for months now how other people put them in, but had no idea and didn't want to seem stupid to those computer savvy people who do. I had no idea what html is and never clicked on the icon. When I did click on it I still wouldn't have know what to do without the post from Wendy with instructions. Thank you again for the information!!!
Dawn wrote: "Anytime. It took me forever to remember it. I did not think this was a spoiler free zone, but there you go."Janet wrote: "Brizo,
You make some good points but where I don't agree with you is that Claire could not have sympathy knowing what she knows about BJR. Remember at this point, she is not that invested in Jamie..."
Yes I did know that, and I suppose you could look at it that way but I still think they made her seem stupid with the things they had her saying both to the generals and to Randall. Diana had her make one slip of the tongue which they did include in the TV episode and yes she had her thinking about Frank when she saw Randall, but she also had her being leery of him because of what she knew about his character from Jamie. So that part just didn't work for me.
Dawn wrote: "Anytime. It took me forever to remember it. I did not think this was a spoiler free zone, but there you go."I didn't either as the title of the discussion thread says Spoilers. But it's easy enough to add that so rather than offend others I just added it.
gertt wrote: "I didn't think Claire sympathized with Randal, but was tolerating him because he was her way out. Claire knew traveling with Randal would be very dangerous, she had met him before and knew, apology..."Interesting how we can watch the same show and see things completely differently. Vive la difference!
I have been listening to the podcast by Ron Moore and that gives you some insight as to why they changed or added some things. "The Garrison Commander" episode did take place in a tavern like the book. I did not see Claire as looking stupid, she was being charming in the hope that the cutie lieutenant would escort her to Inverness, once left alone with BJR that hope went right out the window with the bottle. I did not think she showed any sympathy for BJR it was for Jamie and maybe Frank.
gertt wrote: "I didn't think Claire sympathized with Randal, but was tolerating him because he was her way out. Claire knew traveling with Randal would be very dangerous, she had met him before and knew, apology..."That is also my interpretation. Everyone sees things differently.
The reason I think Claire was genuinely believing what BJR was telling her is because she dropped her guard enough to be totally shocked when he punched her in the stomach. She never saw it coming and if she had been wary of him, she would have.
Janet wrote: "The reason I think Claire was genuinely believing what BJR was telling her is because she dropped her guard enough to be totally shocked when he punched her in the stomach. She never saw it coming..."Claire was genuinely believing what BJR was telling her because he wasn't lying.
Brizo wrote: "gertt wrote: "I didn't think Claire sympathized with Randal, but was tolerating him because he was her way out. Claire knew traveling with Randal would be very dangerous, she had met him before and..."I too believe Claire was sympathizing with Randal but not in the form a few have suggested.
If I put myself into a similar situation... Lets say I was abducted. I'm scared. This person previously tried to rape me. Now he's telling me a horrifying story that shows me how truly crazy he is and how he feels lost and can't be redeemed. What am I going to do? Well obviously I'd be scared S***less of him and I would definitely be trying to find something in him that's worth redeeming. I would be trying to find some shred of humanity left in him. Not for himself, but for me!
If you can convince your crazy captor that he still has something left inside of him that's good and pure, maybe he'll let you go? Maybe he'll feel guilty about it.
I think that's what Claire was trying to do. It was a form of self preservation.
I think BJR manipulated Claire when he said she could go to Inverness, and then said "that has made you happy." He was acting like Frank whom he resembles so strongly. Claire lets her guard down then he punches her.
Sunflower wrote: "When Dougal said he would love to grind Claire's corn (or something along those lines). *lol*"I too laughed at the 'grinding ya corn' comment ;)
But also found the episode difficult to watch in the violent scenes. I really have a weak stomach for it.
Have been struggling this week with the w.a.i.t.i.n.g lol! Have resorted to watching fan collaborated scene/music videos.
Found this clip (there are many fan montages out there..) and loved it, especially the music. Wish I was more computer savvy to attempt it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE4t3...
Ness wrote: "this episode is so intense!! Tobias was BRILLIANT!!! I expect him to be nominated for many awards!! Claire' and BJ' exchange, how even if we jnow the book they managed to surprise us, the flogging ..."Ellen wrote: "thank you, Ness for this brilliant and scintillating montage. What a GIF(T)!"
Epic, Thank you!
Nadia wrote: "Sunflower wrote: "When Dougal said he would love to grind Claire's corn (or something along those lines). *lol*"I too laughed at the 'grinding ya corn' comment ;)
But also found the episode diffi..."
That is so funny, because I have been obsessing over the same music videos and interviews. I even watched the last episode late and I feel like the wait for the Wedding episode has been the longest. I just want to see them together at last.
I've been listening to the Ron Moore podcasts religiously as I re-watch the episode in question for the umpteenth time, and find that it clarifies so much. My take on the Claire, wtf are you doing in that room w/ Black Jack????? question is that she takes in the very. graphic. description. of the flogging of Jamie with a certain amount of shock. thus, the slight distracted/passive air. She is constrained, and conflicted emothionally and psychologically, because as we all know, this is the spitting image of her beloved Frank sitting in front of here spouting these disconcerting monologues. She hasn't yet realized that this is a psycopath sitting in front of her, and so, continues to try to serve her Frank as best as she can. Placed in the past, trying to help, using her nursing/medical soothing a nutcase, she is left hoping that this may affect his future generations, should she be able to influence him. And then the other shoe drops.
Cheryl wrote: "Nadia wrote: "Sunflower wrote: "When Dougal said he would love to grind Claire's corn (or something along those lines). *lol*"I too laughed at the 'grinding ya corn' comment ;)
But also found the..."
I'm having terrible withdrawals..lol! Not sure how I'm going to cope with a 4 month pause!! I think because this episode has focused so dominantly on BJR, (I don't count the whipping as really 'seeing' Jamie ;) that I feel like its been a two week wait..lol!
This episode was truly Oscar winning though. My hubby (whom I finally convinced 3 months ago to read Outlander, in preparation for the TV adaptation.) Also thought that Tobias' portrayal of the psychopath BJR was brilliant.
I found the passage in Outlander that makes me think about Claire on this level. Re: Black Jack/FrankI was gradually recovering from the physical effects of the blow, but not from the shock of it. I knew (italics) the man was not my husband, but the resemblance was so strong and my habits so ingrained, that I had been half-inclined to trust him, adn had spoken to him as I would have to Frank, expecting civility, if not active sympathy. To have those feelings abruptly turned inside out by his vicious attack was what was making me ill now. Ill, and frightened as well.
etc.
I agree, this episode was very intense but at the same time the best yet. The acting was superb but Tobias was incredible. I had chills all the while he was telling his story of BJR and Jamie. The flogging was so unexpectedly intense I couldn't stop watching (I had my hands to my eyes and watched through my fingers though). Again the acting from BJR and Jamie was award winning. I just can't wait to see tonights episode. I am shaking just thinking about it.
Claire: "you don't mind that I'm not a virgin?" Jamie: "if you don't mind that I am. I think one of should know what they're doing"
Love this!!!!
Tina wrote: "Claire: "you don't mind that I'm not a virgin?" Jamie: "if you don't mind that I am. I think one of should know what they're doing"
Love this!!!!"
This exchange was both my favorite in the show AND the book. I loved the twinkle in his eyes and sleight humor. IMHO you could see in this particular exchange they are meant to be. Although book/show had that scene later w here his uncle all but wants her to be his concubine once she's wed. It sounded (I could be wrong) he didn't think a young lad could satisfy her. LOL how wrong he was. I look forwArd to seeing Murtagh and claire becoming friends. I loved his role in the books somewhat as Jamie's protector....now I REALLY look forward to seeing the Ian Murray's Sr and Jr, and beloved Jenny. Any idea w when we w ill see the "ghost" in Scotland? Or did I miss it before she came thru the stones?? I'm just glad the "boys" are starting to warm to her. Oh and I really LOVED ol' Ned the lawyer. On screen he's exactly as I pictured him in my mind. What a canny, kind and witty guy. Glad he's on her side too.
The ghost was in the first episode...no Ian Jr in this book though.
I love Jamie`s white shirts with the shoulder seam on the upper arm but after noticing him in clothes that the shoulder seam is in the usual place at the top of the armpit I think he looks much bigger and especially thru the chest area and even taller.I used to have a shirt quite a bit like that only it was silky polyester when I was younger
I guess I differ than other fans of the book. I see books and television/movies as different entities. I love that the television show is fleshing out characters and making changes. DG doesn't seem to be complaining because I follow her religiously on Facebook and she only seems to be singing the praises of the show's writers, cast, and crew. I am a big Game of Thrones fan and its author is loving that the show is improving on his books. I feel DG is the same way. After all, she has said many times in various interviews and such that Outlander was a book she wrote because she wanted to see if she could write. I just wanted to add that I find Tobias is doing a great job and steals every scene he is in whether in the character of Frank or BJR.
gertt wrote: "I think it's necessary to change some parts of the story because there is so much detail that needs to be covered and they need to round it all up to make their point...like the Officer's Dinner, s..."I definitely agree and that dinner scene was darn good!
I adore each and every one of the Outlander books....I too look at the STARZ piece as a separate entity. I like they're fleshing out the text and subtext so we can see better the lives of the characters. I can understand why DG is happy so far. I'm glad she held out for so many years before letting someone produce the series. I think to be honest it took until now, and in someone's capable hands like Ron Moore (long live BSG) to even be possible. even a few years ago I think technologically it still may have come off as cheap looking. whereas now it's a true work of art and like a lens into the past. sheer BRILLIANCE in both writing and acting. I look forward to seeing many award nominations in the future just like with Game of Thrones. at least with these two series, now maybe others will see there's great excitement in books these days!!!
Keryn wrote: "I adore each and every one of the Outlander books....I too look at the STARZ piece as a separate entity. I like they're fleshing out the text and subtext so we can see better the lives of the chara..."Yes, I recall reading something from DG a number of years ago that she had been approached and was asked if it mattered if Claire was English and Jamie was Scottish. So I'm glad that our beloved author stuck to her views!
Keryn,I am thinking the reason it came out as a work of art is because it was made in Scotland and with Scottish and other UK actors-they didn`t have to be cool or make it to pander to 14 year olds or from comic book characters which looking at TV and movies is what I mainly see from the US and with our high paid celebrities doing their same old jobs on the screen-I really dislike US Media.
Kathy AnnI'm chuffed to bits it's primarily done in Scotland with English and Scottish actors. I live in the state's and one HUGE pet peeve is when an American or other country actor tries to do a Scottish or English accent. I still recall Keanu Reeves (who I really love as an actor) trying to do a serious English accent in a Shakespeare movie. talk about taking the audience out of the movie. it's one thing if the actor is believable....but when it's like hitting a speed bump all of a sudden...to say jarring is an understatement. I'm thrilled more films and shows are being made in the UK now. I hope Outlander stays there.
KerynI hope they stay there too and that they start making more movies over there for us.I used to watch the late UK comedys on the Educatinal channel but most of them have disappeared or have been see way too often-we need some new ones of those too.Keryn what is BSG ?
Great gif! I was trying to slow down the trailer to see what it showed. (I'd read somewhere, I guess it's not true after all, that they wouldn't actually consummate their marriage until episode 8.) Looking forward to Saturday!