Thurman, Rob--Downfall Informal buddy read starts July 28, 2019

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This thread is open to discuss Downfall by Rob Thurman.



Synopsis
I let it go—all of it. Everything I’d been saving up all my life, building and growing inside me, too much to hold in one half-human body. It pushed and fought to be free with a force that turned me into a bomb with a timer vibrating on zero. I was free.

But so was everything I’d fought so hard not to be…

Brothers Cal and Niko Leandros know trouble when they see it—and then proceed to wipe the floor with it. But now it seems their whole world is falling to pieces. Cal’s nightmarish monster side is growing ever stronger, changing Cal physically as well as mentally. Which is exactly what Grimm—Cal’s savage doppelgänger—wants. And when a covert supernatural organization decides that it’s time to put Cal down before he threatens pretty much everything else in existence, the brothers find themselves in a fight they actually might lose. But the dark temptations Cal has denied all his life may prove to be exactly what can save them.

Even if he must fall forever…

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[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

Sorry for the late post!

[Devann]

As always I listened to this way too fast so I'll wait for you guys to catch up. Interested to see what you think about this one because I think that not only is it pretty different than the ones before this, but I find that unfortunately I like it less every time I read it lol

[Cathy M.]

I got thru Chpt 10 last night. Was going back & forth with the audio - one thing about when MacLeod Andrews reads Robin, he talks so fast!

(view spoiler)[I can see how people didn't like Robin's POV as much. Don't get me wrong, I love Robin to death! But I'm getting a little tired of the past-lives/reincarnation angle. I mean, is there more of a point to it? It is a little heartbreaking how much this is affecting Robin but I'm a little over these stories. And why is Cal remembering parts now? Just because of Cullen (trigger)? The ego/boasting I'm still okay with :P I love Robin's description of the fun-loving Cal in past lives. If only!!

I was wondering what Robin was up to and gah the hypnosis thing sort of threw me for a loop. And that he PAID Delilah to kill the Vigil instead of Cal.

You know, I would've thought more would've happened up to this point. With only 7 chpts left, I'm wondering how everything is going to be resolved. Please don't let it be too rushed!! (hide spoiler)]

[Claudia]

I started reading the book last night and I have just finished chapter 9 and am going to do a small update to comment on some stuff then go right back to reading. Well, actually I've been listening to the audiobook as I run errands and do things since it's my day off today.

Like Cathy, I am greatly enjoying Robin's POV but can also see how that would get annoying quickly.

(view spoiler)[ There is so much already and I don't know where to start.
I guess since there is Robin POV I will focus on him for the moment. Like this book is full of Robin angst and we finally really get to see how much it affects him to lose Cal and Niko over and over. Like the trauma has obviously gotten too much. He is totally invested in keeping them alive and not losing them again.

I love his POV on the reincarnation being that they keep coming back to spend time with him and follow him around. I guess it's not Robin if he doesn't make it about him. The past lives flashbacks are my favorite thing but omg the angst. Robin's breakdown on the phone with Niko and needing reassurance that Cal wasn't dead was like the best and worst scene.

I am really wondering what Robin's final plan is? Like he paid Deliliah 2.5 million to get her to take out the Vigil trying to tie the two together and get them out of the way so they could deal with Grimm? What was the deal he made with Grimm after he sent Cal and Niko off?

And Robin has been hypnotizing Cal for weeks now? Why? That was a surprise but not as much as a surprise of Cal remembering his past lives but attributing it to Auphe having race memories that he can now tap into his past lives?

Ishiah popping up in their childhood and knowing about the Auphe but leaving Cal and Niko there to deal with them but wishing them well. Like I could get why Cal was pretty angry about it but also at the same time see why Ishiah couldn't really intervene. What was your take on that?
(hide spoiler)]

[Cathy M.]

Claudia wrote: "I started reading the book last night and I have just finished chapter 9 and am going to do a small update to comment on some stuff then go right back to reading. Well, actually I've been listening..."

I am loving the Robin angst and experiencing Robin in all his trickster glory. He's so intent on keeping them alive and making these deals so you gotta wonder if something will go wrong somewhere? Like Patroclus wearing the same armor as Achilles and being mistaken for Achilles, which led to his death. And like Delilah not really caring about the deal with Robin, even though she for sure took the money. It was killing me not knowing what he said to Grimm too!

That scene with Ishiah at the carnival was, I don't know how I felt about it. 13yo Cal was a little shit! Ishiah couldn't intervene but does that also mean he couldn't say anything to Robin? Like even hint at something not being right? It was another of those What is the point of this? moments to me. I'm hoping something comes out of it...

[Devann]

i think that is kind of my problem with robin's pov and this book in general. nothing actually ever HAPPENS in his pov. he just talks about past lives and assures us that he's working on something we're all too dumb to understand and like ...it's very in character but it does not make for a compelling book in my opinion. like you said in chapter 9 you are like halfway through and what has even happened so far? i agree that it is totally like robin to think everything is about him though lol

[Claudia]

@Devann I have to agree that while I'm liking all the flashbacks I don't find it furthering the plot at all. Like it shows that Robin is doing shady plotting in the background but not actually giving any substantial information. You know apart from driving home how messed up Robin is due to the multiple deaths he has lived through and how it has slowly been driving him crazy.

@Cathy On Ishiah not telling Robin I don't know where you are now in the book but Cal and Ish talk about it. So just in case your not there yet skip this until then. (view spoiler)[Isaiah and Cal talk about the carnival and he gives his excuses and while I get them I'm totally on Cal's side of the argument. It just came down to Ishiah could have helped but he didn't. Isaiah basically admits he was too scared to go against the Auphe because while he could kill one or two he couldn't take them all on. Even if he personally didn't step in he could have told Robin. But Ishiah knew Robin would have intervened and was more concerned with Robin not getting in the sights of the Auphe who he didn't think Robin could take. Ishiah also basically admits that if Robin knew he had known and hadn't told him that Robin would never forgive him for it. (hide spoiler)]

[Claudia]

I'm on chapter 14 now. I'm probably going to finish the book tonight.

I have a quick comment on Promise. Like I've been wondering why Promise hasn't been around in this book or the one before it. (view spoiler)[ Then after Niko ahs to tranquilize Cal for going full Auphe and calling Robin over Niko basically says that Promise has been avoiding Cal. Like what even? Up until now, Cal hasn't been that off but Niko basically is implying that Promise is scared of and doesn't trust Cal and he's just okay with that? (hide spoiler)]

[Devann]

oh my god the promise thing pisses me off SO MUCH. (view spoiler)[like she's just not even there and then that random throwaway comment and then basically the night before they THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DIE niko, robin, and cal just ~bro out~ or whatever and i'm like mmm???? i mean ...do you not want to spend time with your FUCKING GIRLFRIEND???? for part of the night at least??? and then she is just NOT EVEN THERE AT ALL AT THE END. like hey cool cal and niko get brought back to life and ish gets to be there to be with robin but i guess promise is just sitting at home on her couch waiting for someone to remember to call her and tell her niko's not dead???? honestly it's why the past lives thing kind of pisses me off in general. like before it was fine that cal and niko were the closest to each other and robin and promise were both like there but kind of on the outs, but then she pulls this and pushes out her only main female character still mildly in the group and i'm just like uh ...rob??? turn on your location. i just want to talk. (hide spoiler)]

[Cathy M.]

Finished! I'm not sure what to rate this... keep going back and forth between 3 and 4 stars. Let's be honest, it was probably closer to 3 stars because not much happens most of the book and everything is so internal and then rushed at the end. 4 stars because I loved Robin's POV and seeing that he is a more complex character that I gave him credit for, and that ending (though part of it did bring it down probably closer to a 2 star)!

(view spoiler)[So let's start with the trip to the sun. Literally. I was rolling my eyes so hard at that. I thought that was sorta cheesy and hated that part of it. I didn't get why he would WANT to take Niko with him for this trip knowing that they would both die. Wouldn't he want to save him like he did Robin? I didn't quite buy it. Just to find out Grimm saved them? And for Rafferty to show up and heal them? It was just all too convenient. The bae are gone (or are they? There had to be some hatchlings still in the cavern). Catcher was miraculously healed though we haven't seen or heard from them for several books. Grimm was taken care of. But won't Cal & Niko ask/wonder what happened to Grimm?

i totally agree with you both about Promise - she just all of a sudden didn't want to be around Cal? And Niko was ok with that? Really? Everyone knew that Niko would give up anyone and everyone just for Cal, he was the most important person in Niko's life, so yea, it was strange.

I do get why Ishiah didn't help out Cal & Niko when they were younger and he saw them. He WAS a coward for doing that, but I also felt a little sorry for him. He was in the wrong yes, but he has also had Cal's back in the more recent past. Has he done enough to be redeemed? Maybe not but I do think he deserves a break. Everything has happened for a reason right?

I do love the scenes where Cal released his Auphe-ness! Just to find out at the end that Rafferty "re-set" him. Huh. Cal & Niko don't even know that Grimm is gone at this point so wouldn't they object even a little? Cal needs his Auphe-ness to fight Grimm (at least as far as he knows at this point)...

I was annoyed by how the Vigil & Delilah were made to be these big concerns when there was no resolution, or not even much progress, made for either. At least that we saw. But I guess the author was expected to write more books in the series so she was just building them up for future books? (hide spoiler)]

[Devann]

i used to have it rated 4 stars but the last time i read it i lowered it to 3 because for some reason it just suddenly started bugging me a lot more than it used to

haha THE THING WITH THE SUN MAKES ME ROLL MY EYES SO MUCH. like, rob, i am already suspending so much disbelief for this series and don't get me wrong I LOVE IT in general but that was a few steps too far for me. but yeah the whole thing was way too ~happy feel good~ ending for me personally, and way too many coincidences. i guess if it was actually her planned ending and last book in the series then i could accept that she would just want to wrap everything up and make them all happy, but then she wrote another one so i'm like ???? i kind of wanted it to end with them dying and then maybe an epilogue of robin watching their next incarnation or something for a hint of hope, buuuut i'm kind of dark like that.

also i do get why ish didn't help cal when he was a kid but yeah he was definitely a dick for it. i mean i almost would be less mad at him if he didn't seek them out at all, but instead he's like here's $50 to make myself feel better but i'm not REALLY gonna do anything! i guess now he has grown and realized he was wrong but i was just like UGH. seems like typical angel behavior though so i guess he was just still in that mindset.

and yeah i didn't get why they weren't more worried since as far as they know grimm isn't gone, but oh well i guess. i do agree that cal going auphe was great though. and i love how much it freaked them out and he was like UH GUYS JUST JOKING! and then when niko fell asleep with his head in cal's lap i was just like AWWWW. i love that scene.

the vigil features in the next book, although it is in no way satisfying lol, but yeah idk what she had planned for delilah.

one other thing that really bothers me in this book is the whole 'oh i made up those rumors about achilles and patroclus thing'. like ....i'm sorry that you didn't think this through when making your current brothers a pair of lovers in their past lives [well, two pairs - achilles/patroclus and alexander/hephaestion] but don't wimp out at the last second like that. i guess she has had robin as a very loud and proud queer character for the whole series so i know she's not just doing it because ~ew gay stuff~, but it's still always bothered me.

[Devann]

also should i go ahead and request the thread for the last one? probably good to request it earlier this time if we're gonna do it lol

[Claudia]

Yeah I went back and forth between 3 and 4 stars as well. I guess sit’s more like a 3.5 star book.

@Cathy Yeah the whole trip to the sun was pretty stupid. Also why couldn’t he just gate them away without taking himself along for the ride? That makes no sense. Like literally a book ago he gated like 10 people away to Tumulus without taking himself along for the ride. It made no sense that eh ahd to go along with them.

On Grimm I think once they come down from the whole we are alive thing they will question things about Grimm. Like it’s not their nature to just accept that eh made this deal and was like oh well I lost guys. I’m sure they think he either slunk of to recuperate and will be back or will question robin and what really happened to him. I just don’t se them accepting the story they were told for long after they regain their footing.

On Georgina. Gah I still don’t like her and I disliked her even more as the series went on. Seriously the whole Will you tell Cal I miss him? Like seriously dude? Asking that after basically admitting to Robin you knew about the threat of Grimm long before they did but didn’t bother to warn them about Grimm. You couldn’t pick up a phone and be like hey heads up I ran into Cal’s weird murderous cousin/brother and he’s out to get you guys. I think I would have preferred her dead because at least that way she didn’t just withhold important information they could have used.

@Devann I think that was my favorite scene of the whole book as well when Cal was like full Auphe and basically gutted Grimm then turned to them smiling and was all “Good game, guys. Damn good game. I should make you honorary Auphe.” and the two of them were like completely freaked out and scared of him but Cal doesn’t notice. And Niko tells Robin “I think I may have pissed my pants,” and Robin’s all “You are not fucking alone,”. Like that whole scene just totally cemented my love for Auphe!Cal. I especially loved how oblivious he was to their mood and the fact he scared them. He was all like but I told you I was in control. On the whole Achilles/Patroclus and Alexander/Hephaestion that was hilarious I think it would have been better if she kept to you know real life legends with them as lovers it would have been funnier and really creeped them out. They’d be like we’re never talking about that again. She really didn’t think that through when she was choosing her famous pair of dudes.

[Claudia]

I know I’m going to regret it but go ahead and request because I am going to go ahead and read it. I think we can all expect a lot of complaining in the last book.

[Devann]

@Claudia that's a good point too, like just gate them to the sun but stay behind. or open up gates in all of them or something. i mean i know there's 1000 of them but i don't feel like it's any more unrealistic than somehow going to the sun and surviving lol

and yes that whole scene is gold. it's just like

cal: oh man, what a fun prank!
robin and niko: ........ O_O .........

and i went ahead and requested the thread for friday, although i might not end up starting til later because i think i am gonna do the good omens BR and will probably just get carried away and listen to the whole thing instead of pacing it out. also maybe the horribleness of the last book will be a bit better since we have someone to complain with now ;) i've not listened to it yet on audio because i skipped it in my last reread so i'm interested to see if MacLeod Andrews can bring any shred of quality to it