Breaking The Code To The Catcher In The Rye discussion

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The Return of the Native
Breaking The Code To The Catcher In The Rye: The Return of The Native
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I mention how Holden says he really likes Eustacia Vye. What does this say about Holden? What does he like about her?
First we should get to know her.
Here is a description from The Return of the Native:
Chapter 8
Queen of Night
Eustacia Vye was the raw material of a divinity. On Olympus she would have done well with a little preparation. She had the passions and instincts which make a model goddess, that is, those which make not quite a model woman. Had it been possible for the earth and mankind to be entirely in her grasp for a while, she had handled the distaff, the spindle, and the shears at her own free will, few in the world would have noticed the change of government. There would have been the same inequality of lot, the same heaping up of favours here, of contumely there, the same generosity before justice, the same perpetual dilemmas, the same captious alteration of caresses and blows that we endure now.
1."Not quite a model woman." Think about our view of Hitler. He is not quite a model man.
2.)Distaff -unspun fibers, keeping them untangled and thus easing the spinning process. (reminds me of the order out of chaos...or a lot of laws to control the German people and to keep people in line.)
"You look a little tied up."
Better to keep you from doing what you want.
3.)Spindle -A spindle is a straight spike usually made from wood used for spinning, twisting fibers such as wool, flax, hemp, cotton into yarn.
"You are look like you are drunk." No, just a little dizzy from all this spinning.
4.)Shears- Sheep shearing is the process by which the woollen fleece of a sheep is cut off. The person who removes the sheep's wool is called a shearer.
"What happened to ya?" "Oh, I've been fleeced."
(To take advantage of).
5.) contumely http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwo...
The link is that the swelling up was with misplaced or ill-judged pride, leading to arrogant behaviour.
6.) Dilemma
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DilemmaA dilemma (Greek: δίλημμα "double proposition") is a problem offering two possibilities, neither of which is practically acceptable. One in this position has been traditionally described as "being on the horns of a dilemma", neither horn being comfortable. This is sometimes more colorfully described as "Finding oneself impaled upon the horns of a dilemma", referring to the sharp points of a bull's horns, equally uncomfortable (and dangerous).
7.)captious-If someone tends to be hypercritical and find fault with everything, you can describe that person as captious.
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/...
captious, something is calculated to confuse or deceive — such as a captious explanation of the facts. When a person is described as captious, the sense is usually of nitpicking at faults or raising petty objections. It is usually used to imply a permanent character or personality flaw, as opposed to a momentary lapse in understanding.
First we should get to know her.
Here is a description from The Return of the Native:
Chapter 8
Queen of Night
Eustacia Vye was the raw material of a divinity. On Olympus she would have done well with a little preparation. She had the passions and instincts which make a model goddess, that is, those which make not quite a model woman. Had it been possible for the earth and mankind to be entirely in her grasp for a while, she had handled the distaff, the spindle, and the shears at her own free will, few in the world would have noticed the change of government. There would have been the same inequality of lot, the same heaping up of favours here, of contumely there, the same generosity before justice, the same perpetual dilemmas, the same captious alteration of caresses and blows that we endure now.
1."Not quite a model woman." Think about our view of Hitler. He is not quite a model man.
2.)Distaff -unspun fibers, keeping them untangled and thus easing the spinning process. (reminds me of the order out of chaos...or a lot of laws to control the German people and to keep people in line.)
"You look a little tied up."
Better to keep you from doing what you want.
3.)Spindle -A spindle is a straight spike usually made from wood used for spinning, twisting fibers such as wool, flax, hemp, cotton into yarn.
"You are look like you are drunk." No, just a little dizzy from all this spinning.
4.)Shears- Sheep shearing is the process by which the woollen fleece of a sheep is cut off. The person who removes the sheep's wool is called a shearer.
"What happened to ya?" "Oh, I've been fleeced."
(To take advantage of).
5.) contumely http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwo...
The link is that the swelling up was with misplaced or ill-judged pride, leading to arrogant behaviour.
6.) Dilemma
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DilemmaA dilemma (Greek: δίλημμα "double proposition") is a problem offering two possibilities, neither of which is practically acceptable. One in this position has been traditionally described as "being on the horns of a dilemma", neither horn being comfortable. This is sometimes more colorfully described as "Finding oneself impaled upon the horns of a dilemma", referring to the sharp points of a bull's horns, equally uncomfortable (and dangerous).
7.)captious-If someone tends to be hypercritical and find fault with everything, you can describe that person as captious.
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/...
captious, something is calculated to confuse or deceive — such as a captious explanation of the facts. When a person is described as captious, the sense is usually of nitpicking at faults or raising petty objections. It is usually used to imply a permanent character or personality flaw, as opposed to a momentary lapse in understanding.
Having read this book once I wondered if it would have anything of interest toThe Catcher in the Rye.
In keeping with the theme WW2 which I think is the code cipher for this book:
Well I was surprised to find that Eustacia Via wants to go to Paris. Just like Hitler wanted to get to Paris.
We have looked at the word Caul mentioned in David Copperfield and is the first part of the compound word Caulfield, Holden's last name.
Also there is another mention of caul.
"And I was born wi' a caul, and perhaps can be no more ruined than drowned?" Christian added, beginning to give way.
Ultimately Christian laid down his shilling, the raffle began, and the dice went round. When it came to Christian's turn he took the box with a trembling hand, shook it fearfully, and threw a pair-royal. Three of the others had thrown common low pairs, and all the rest mere points.
"The gentleman looked like winning, as I said," observed the chapman blandly. "Take it, sir; the article is yours."
"Haw-haw-haw!" said Fairway. "I'm damned if this isn't the quarest start that ever I knowed!"
"Mine?" asked Christian, with a vacant stare from his target eyes. "I—I haven't got neither maid, wife, nor widder belonging to me at all, and I'm afeard it will make me laughed at to ha'e it, Master Traveller. What with being curious to join in I never thought of that! What shall I do wi' a woman's clothes in MY bedroom, and not lose my decency!"
"Keep 'em, to be sure," said Fairway, "if it is only for luck. Perhaps 'twill tempt some woman that thy poor carcase had no power over when standing empty-handed."
"Keep it, certainly," said Wildeve, who had idly watched the scene from a distance.
The table was then cleared of the articles, and the men began to drink.
"Well, to be sure!" said Christian, half to himself. "To think I should have been born so lucky as this, and not have found it out until now! What curious creatures these dice be—powerful rulers of us all, and yet at my command! I am sure I never need be afeared of anything after this." He handled the dice fondly one by one. "Why, sir," he said in a confidential whisper to Wildeve, who was near his left hand, "if I could only use this power that's in me of multiplying money I might do some good to a near relation of yours, seeing what I've got about me of hers—eh?" He tapped one of his money-laden boots upon the floor."
So the caul has another allusion to luck or risk. Luck is a theme of the Catcher in the Rye. Spenser wishes Holden Good Luck as he leaves. Holden doesn't think it is a very good omen coming from him.
Chance is also associated with reaching for the "gold ring".
To me this and the carousel definitely point to Holden Caulfield being a stock broker. Also the fact that he is the name of a GM car and GM's stock made a lot of money off the war. It also explains why Holden laughs at the carousel that plays "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes."
This is a continuation of the chaos mentioned in the first post in this thread.
Just like Germany runs out of steam so does Eustacia Vye:
"Eustacia at length reached Rainbarrow, and stood still there to think. Never was harmony more perfect than that between the chaos of her mind and the chaos of the world without. A sudden recollection had flashed on her this moment—she had not money enough for undertaking a long journey. Amid the fluctuating sentiments of the day her unpractical mind had not dwelt on the necessity of being well-provided, and now that she thoroughly realized the conditions she sighed bitterly and ceased to stand erect, gradually crouching down under the umbrella as if she were drawn into the Barrow by a hand from beneath. Could it be that she was to remain a captive still? Money—she had never felt its value before. Even to efface herself from the country means were required. To ask Wildeve for pecuniary aid without allowing him to accompany her was impossible to a woman with a shadow of pride left in her; to fly as his mistress—and she knew that he loved her—was of the nature of humiliation."
In keeping with the theme WW2 which I think is the code cipher for this book:
Well I was surprised to find that Eustacia Via wants to go to Paris. Just like Hitler wanted to get to Paris.
We have looked at the word Caul mentioned in David Copperfield and is the first part of the compound word Caulfield, Holden's last name.
Also there is another mention of caul.
"And I was born wi' a caul, and perhaps can be no more ruined than drowned?" Christian added, beginning to give way.
Ultimately Christian laid down his shilling, the raffle began, and the dice went round. When it came to Christian's turn he took the box with a trembling hand, shook it fearfully, and threw a pair-royal. Three of the others had thrown common low pairs, and all the rest mere points.
"The gentleman looked like winning, as I said," observed the chapman blandly. "Take it, sir; the article is yours."
"Haw-haw-haw!" said Fairway. "I'm damned if this isn't the quarest start that ever I knowed!"
"Mine?" asked Christian, with a vacant stare from his target eyes. "I—I haven't got neither maid, wife, nor widder belonging to me at all, and I'm afeard it will make me laughed at to ha'e it, Master Traveller. What with being curious to join in I never thought of that! What shall I do wi' a woman's clothes in MY bedroom, and not lose my decency!"
"Keep 'em, to be sure," said Fairway, "if it is only for luck. Perhaps 'twill tempt some woman that thy poor carcase had no power over when standing empty-handed."
"Keep it, certainly," said Wildeve, who had idly watched the scene from a distance.
The table was then cleared of the articles, and the men began to drink.
"Well, to be sure!" said Christian, half to himself. "To think I should have been born so lucky as this, and not have found it out until now! What curious creatures these dice be—powerful rulers of us all, and yet at my command! I am sure I never need be afeared of anything after this." He handled the dice fondly one by one. "Why, sir," he said in a confidential whisper to Wildeve, who was near his left hand, "if I could only use this power that's in me of multiplying money I might do some good to a near relation of yours, seeing what I've got about me of hers—eh?" He tapped one of his money-laden boots upon the floor."
So the caul has another allusion to luck or risk. Luck is a theme of the Catcher in the Rye. Spenser wishes Holden Good Luck as he leaves. Holden doesn't think it is a very good omen coming from him.
Chance is also associated with reaching for the "gold ring".
To me this and the carousel definitely point to Holden Caulfield being a stock broker. Also the fact that he is the name of a GM car and GM's stock made a lot of money off the war. It also explains why Holden laughs at the carousel that plays "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes."
This is a continuation of the chaos mentioned in the first post in this thread.
Just like Germany runs out of steam so does Eustacia Vye:
"Eustacia at length reached Rainbarrow, and stood still there to think. Never was harmony more perfect than that between the chaos of her mind and the chaos of the world without. A sudden recollection had flashed on her this moment—she had not money enough for undertaking a long journey. Amid the fluctuating sentiments of the day her unpractical mind had not dwelt on the necessity of being well-provided, and now that she thoroughly realized the conditions she sighed bitterly and ceased to stand erect, gradually crouching down under the umbrella as if she were drawn into the Barrow by a hand from beneath. Could it be that she was to remain a captive still? Money—she had never felt its value before. Even to efface herself from the country means were required. To ask Wildeve for pecuniary aid without allowing him to accompany her was impossible to a woman with a shadow of pride left in her; to fly as his mistress—and she knew that he loved her—was of the nature of humiliation."
Books mentioned in this topic
The Catcher in the Rye (other topics)The Return of the Native (other topics)
The Catcher in the Rye (other topics)
So I started reading The Return of the Native. I have yet to be disappointed to discover something in the books or movies mentioned in The Catcher in the Rye to shed light on Salinger's true reason for writing this book.
So I read it and found this quote...
"as upon some wondrous thing she had created out of chaos."
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/122/12...
(You can do a search for the word chaos and find where it is in the text.)
Maybe quite innocent but it reminds me of the quote
"ORDER OUT OF CHAOS"
Here is a Masonic web site that talks about a book called Order Out of Chaos The Landmark of Freemasonary.
http://northernfreemason.com/masons/2...
What does this have to do with the Catcher in The Rye?
Well it would seem that the first reference to phoney is also a reference to free mason.
See my post here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I am interested in seeing how Eustacia Via does this. Presently at this quote she has called a secret meeting with the use of a bon fire up on a hill on November 5th.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
From the The Return of the Native:
"It seemed as if the bonfire-makers were standing in some radiant upper story of the world, detached from and independent of the dark stretches below. The heath down there was now a vast abyss, and no longer a continuation of what they stood on; for their eyes, adapted to the blaze, could see nothing of the deeps beyond its influence. Occasionally, it is true, a more vigorous flare than usual from their faggots sent darting lights like aides-de-camp down the inclines to some distant bush, pool, or patch of white sand, kindling these to replies of the same colour, till all was lost in darkness again. Then the whole black phenomenon beneath represented Limbo as viewed from the brink by the sublime Florentine in his vision, and the muttered articulations of the wind in the hollows were as complaints and petitions from the "souls of mighty worth" suspended therein.
It was as if these men and boys had suddenly dived into past ages, and fetched therefrom an hour and deed which had before been familiar with this spot. The ashes of the original British pyre which blazed from that summit lay fresh and undisturbed in the barrow beneath their tread. The flames from funeral piles long ago kindled there had shone down upon the lowlands as these were shining now. Festival fires to Thor and Woden had followed on the same ground and duly had their day. Indeed, it is pretty well known that such blazes as this the heathmen were now enjoying are rather the lineal descendants from jumbled Druidical rites and Saxon ceremonies than the invention of popular feeling about Gunpowder Plot.
Moreover to light a fire is the instinctive and resistant act of man when, at the winter ingress, the curfew is sounded throughout Nature. It indicates a spontaneous, Promethean rebelliousness against that fiat that this recurrent season shall bring foul times, cold darkness, misery and death. Black chaos comes, and the fettered gods of the earth say, Let there be light.
The brilliant lights and sooty shades which struggled upon the skin and clothes of the persons standing round caused their lineaments and general contours to be drawn with Dureresque vigour and dash. Yet the permanent moral expression of each face it was impossible to discover, for as the nimble flames towered, nodded, and swooped through the surrounding air, the blots of shade and flakes of light upon the countenances of the group changed shape and position endlessly. All was unstable; quivering as leaves, evanescent as lightning. Shadowy eye-sockets, deep as those of a death's head, suddenly turned into pits of lustre: a lantern-jaw was cavernous, then it was shining; wrinkles were emphasized to ravines, or obliterated entirely by a changed ray. Nostrils were dark wells; sinews in old necks were gilt mouldings; things with no particular polish on them were glazed; bright objects, such as the tip of a furze-hook one of the men carried, were as glass; eyeballs glowed like little lanterns. Those whom Nature had depicted as merely quaint became grotesque, the grotesque became preternatural; for all was in extremity."