City of Ashes
discussion
Would you allow a preteen to read this? I am thinking; No.
I would say a mature tween could. I read it as a tween and it was fine. Its really not that bad
No. I would allow anyone under 13 to read it as well. Also, some of the themes in the book are very advanced for a young adult book.
I agree with the others I would not let a pre-teen read this series either.
when i was a pre-teen, i was reading dark stuff on the level of dean koontz and handled it fine. i would let a pre-teen read it. if i thought their maturity level wasn't where it needs to be, i'd say no.
I agree with Adalis as well on this. I didn't let my child read Twilight and she is turning 14 in December. I didn't feel comfortable letting her read it when it came out. I am a parent that tries to be involved as much as possible when it comes to what they are reading.
As with any series as the series goes on the characters get older and the situations become more and more mature as time passes. Some of the situations (especially in the last one City of Heavenly Fire ) become more adult in nature. They don't right out and say things the way more adult oriented novels do, but they allude to things that happen between 2 characters. I am not sure I am completely comfortable with her reading that one yet, but I think it has more to do with the fact that I would like to keep her young and innocent forever :)
But, like Adalis said it all depends on maturity levels. In the end as a parent you decide what is acceptable and what is not. I had friends that let their 9 year olds read the Twilight series, now while I don't agree with that necessarily it isn't for me to say. You have to make the call.
I think it all depends on maturity level. I am a preteen (12) and I read the whole series but for some people my age it wouldn't be appropriate. children exsepcily preteens are maturing faster than ever and it vary among people I know ten year olds who've read TFIOS and they seen fine with it. heap of kid between 9-12 swear heaps and have non-serious girlfriends/boyfriends. I think this is fine for mature twelve year olds. in regard to Mari comment on abuse in the series you are missing two crucial points;1; clary and jace aren't in a relationship when she hits him
and 2; he nearly kills her
please consider these two things,
thank you
absolutely not. 14 youngest. period. amen.
I read the first couple of TMI books as a pre-teen/young teenager (I was 12/13, don't remember exactly), and I am just fine. No more emotionally scarred than I was when I read Oliver Twist aged 9 (i.e. not at all).As others have said, it's all about maturity, not age. Also, if you're worried about the ideas your niece might get from the book, and you don't think she is savvy enough to realise that Clary acts in a very immature and sometimes dangerous way (spoiler: she almost certainly is, kids are way smarter than most adults give them credit for), *talk to her about it*. Communication is key.
Erin brings up a great point here. Talk to your child about it. Maybe you can do a book club so to speak between the 2 of you and read it together. You can use it as a way to open communication and talk about some of the situations in the book. She may prove to you that she is more perceptive about things than you give her credit for. Most kids understand the difference between the right and wrong, now it is whether or not they listen to their better judgement or not that is in question. My 13 year old can read a book and tell you that what the character did was wrong and that they made poor choices which led up to that happening. Lessons can be learned.
I started reading Stephen King when I was 12 or so and my Mom was fine with it. She was happy I had a love for reading. However, it comes down to parenting and knowing your child. If you know your child, then you can make that decision based on YOUR child. That being said, most kids have a lot more common sense than most adults give them credit for.
Grace wrote: "Woah there. You are looking far too into this, and frankly are being quite ridiculous. 1. This. is. fiction. Now, there is a few adult situations, and I would suggest no one younger then 13 read it..."Very well said!!
I understand you guys not wanting us to read it because you are good parents. Let us explore great books like these also though
I read this series as an adult so I was able to take all the adult situations well. Personally I won't allow any one below 15 to read it. Some details in book 5 are not meant for youngsters. Even if some teens are mature for their age, it not necessarily means mental maturity.
To the original poster: Bella was stupid. She did not want to go to college. Is that the kind of reasoning you would want your child to have? The more you let others decide for you the more you lose yourself. In that aspect Clary does know what to do.
ABSOLUTELY NOT IT SAYS AGES 14 PLUS ON THE COVER FOR A REASON
message 16:
by
Autumn (Triquetra Reviews)
(last edited Sep 25, 2014 06:45AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
I think it depends on maturity level for the person reading this story. If you believe your child to be too young, then by all means, limit what they can read. I just want to say that unless you're monitoring EVERYTHING your child does, who they talk to, what they hear on the playground, then they aren't going to encounter anything in this book that they don't see on television. For some parents, they monitor what happens. That's fine. Other parents are ok with having their child read what they want to read - and to promote reading. That's fine too.
The club they go to was a place they could dance and have fun while being responsible.I don't recall Clary drinking at all. I believe she's 15 or 16, which isn't as young as many people tend to believe. If you can get a driver's permit at 16 then I think you can go to a club to dance with your friends.
A quick thing on Twilight though - it does promote more abusive relationships. I'm not sure how you didn't see it or how you think Bella is a strong lead for young girls. When Ed leaves her in the second book she completely has a meltdown and pins her entire life around him and their relationship - a relationship that put herself in a LOT of danger, a relationship that had him crawling in her windows and watching her sleep at night, a relationship that completely screws with her and damages her ability to focus on the life around her. Her entire world revolves around Edward.
I'm not sure about some folks, but I'd rather have my daughter (if I ever have one) to be strong, confident in herself with the mind set that she can take on the world, like Clary, instead of acting like a mindless zombie who has no will to live when she gets dumped by an idiotic boy.
I think it depends, I read this book in 6th grade and I thought it was a great book. There isnt anything that is innapropriate in it, I disagree
I read this book when I was fourteen (last year) and I think it is good for young people to read a book with a strong female presence that has no humility. I mean, you're not going to get anywhere if you're too imbarassed or ashamed. And you're opinion IS as good as anyone's. However, I did not find Clary to be sucha strong female character so either way, I wouldn't worry. And just because I'm fourteen doesn't mean I'm immature or anything. My opinion is valid. And I agree with Salaena.
I read this as a thirteen year old. We here worse at school and I think an 11 year old could read it. The content isn't descriptive and it has good role models.
Grace wrote: "I find this condescension to teenagers simply based on the fact that they are teenagers to be completely ridiculous as age does not insure or dictate maturity. That is based entirely on the individ..."
Thank you!
Thank you!
I could talk for hours about this - but it really comes down to this: characters are supposed to have flaws and some of these flaws can be bad. Preteens are quite capable of understanding what is good and what is bad and that a person can do both - and that sometimes it's justified by the situation they are in, or that it's not justified but they can learn from their mistakes and (maybe) be forgiven. Of course, discussing the issues in the book is very recommended if preteens are reading them, but forbidding the book is wrong - one day they won't have someone to tell them what's good and what's bad, and reading books like TMI can actually make them understand the world better and make them do the right choices when it's time.What makes a book not good for preteens isn't whether the characters are good roles or not, but if their mistakes and wrong behaviour is pointed out. Clary's behaviour gets better while the story goes on, she learns from her mistakes.
In Twilight, Edward manipulates Bella and no one tells him anything. And while in TMI Clary slowly becomes the hero of her story, so that she stops depending on Jace for everything, Twilight keeps promoting the idea that the most important thing you need is the love of an handsome man - which, no.
Vale thank you for saying what needs to be said.
Randomfreckles wrote: "Vale thank you for saying what needs to be said."you're welcome :)
Vale wrote: "I could talk for hours about this - but it really comes down to this: characters are supposed to have flaws and some of these flaws can be bad. Preteens are quite capable of understanding what is g..."
BRAVO! Everything I should've said.
BRAVO! Everything I should've said.
Nessie wrote: "Vale wrote: "I could talk for hours about this - but it really comes down to this: characters are supposed to have flaws and some of these flaws can be bad. Preteens are quite capable of understand..."thanks! glad I'm not the only one thinking this!
I wasn't going to put my two scents in but now I think I will. I read the twilight series, and I adored it at the time I read them. I mean I was full on obsessed with the series, and NEVER stopped talking about it. But in my opinion there are a lot more serious issues that could be unhealthy for a younger reader then what is in TMI. Bella basically gives up on life when edward leaves her. She does whatever possible to cause herself to hallucinate, and no matter how you look at it, she used jacob to get back with edward. She used his feeling for her, and we all know this. Bella was borderline obsessed with Edward. Clary might have hit jace, but if you actually read the books, and got to know the characters, then you would know that it was in fun. She didn't aim to seriously hurt or damage jace. And whenever things happened that caused jace and clary to be apart clary missed him, but she realized there was more important things in her life that needed to be taken care of, then obsessing over a boy. The language is decent and I promise you, you would hear way way worse in our schools then you would in this book. As far as sexual scenes go, it is very generalized. As far as I remember there are only hints at sex, and when a scene happened it was once and there were very little specific descriptions of anything. And the fact that there are gay, lesbian, and bisexual characters is not an adult theme. It's life. And again it's not like the series shoved it down peoples throats. And to say that they were kids who shouldn't be allowed to think that they correct all of the time is silly. A teenger is going to think they know what is best for them. A teenager is going to go against their parents, and act out because they are TEENS. You also have to look into what is going on in the actual book. They killed demons, they were shadowhunters, and they were raised that way. They were good, and they were confident. Just because Jace was arrogant doesn't mean everyone else was. They were mature and rash because they were thrown into a world where they had to grow up faster then they should have, and they were thrown into it at a young age. Mistaked will be made. In my opinion bella was the opposite of mature. She caused herself to hallucinate, she used a boy to get what she wanted, she got married because it was the only way to become a vampire despite the affects it would have on her friends and family. Bella almost always thought of edward and did whatever it took to stay with him. When she sacrificed herself to save her mom, it was her fault in the first place. She stayed in an unhealthy relationship because she was addicted to it. I was reading way way way more violent and worse things when i was 12-13 years old and i knew the difference in what was right and wrong. And if my parents felt I didn't they spoke to me. pre teens and teens are a lot smarter then people give them credit for, and communication with your child is key. but really, there is nothing wrong with TMI
Great thoughts. You are spot on. Teens do what they think is best. Its Life.
I'm thinking that whether or not a pre-teen is allowed to read this is the decision of their parents and no one else is entitled to an opinion on it. And YES I did allow my daughter to begin reading these books when she was still a preteen.
Macayla wrote: "I wasn't going to put my two scents in but now I think I will. I read the twilight series, and I adored it at the time I read them. I mean I was full on obsessed with the series, and NEVER stopped ..."I completely agree with you on everything!
I think this is the same as the video game/movie debate. It comes down to maturity. Most teens and pre-teens can understand what happens in a game/book/movie is not the same as real life.Honestly, I read The Forbidden Game by LJ Smith when I was 11 years old which is all about a hot, evil devil-type character who kidnaps the main character and spends 3 books trying to seduce her. I recognized that the work was, in fact, fiction and I didn't try to join any weird cults or suddenly have a propensity for strangers to kidnap me. It was just a fun read and I realized in real life that if that same situation were to take place it wouldn't be like the book.
In my opinion, real life is what parents should be worrying about, not the content of the books. But that's just my two cents:)
To put this in short terms: the TMI series is much better than the Twilight series in terms of characters. Clary is strong-willed, determined, and (for the most part) independent. Bella, on the other hand, was co-dependent, unmotivated, and overall a bad character in general. She allowed her relationship with Edward to take over her entire life, whereas in TMI, Clary has a life outside of Jace. That is the sort of relationship children should be exposed to. They shouldn't be taught that you need to rely on your boyfriend/girlfriend, or that if they leave you won't survive. That's not healthy. I don't see how you found no problems with the Twilight series, because while I adored the series as a kid (around 13 years old), when I re-read it at 17, I was horrified. Personally, I would much rather my kids read TMI where the characters are strong and confident than Twilight, where the main characters are either possessive or weak. I would want my children to learn that confidence is okay. Also, I agree with what many people have said throughout this post. It all depends on your level of maturity, really. It doesn't matter to me who reads this book, as long as they are able to discern fiction from reality and handle the many "adult" scenes within this series. Like someone posted above, "many 10 year olds are more mature than some 30 year olds". I don't think kids are given enough credit. They are able to think critically, despite what many may think. And if it worries you that much, talk to your child about what they're reading. Make sure they understand right from wrong. Make sure they are grasping the concept of reality and are able to tell what is real versus what is make believe. In the end it's up to you as a parent to teach your child what it means to be an adult and to set an example for them. If you've done your job, you shouldn't be concerned.
Quite a lot of fiction directed at young adult audiences, especially teenage ones, plays the "Kids are awesomer than grown-ups" card. It features characters they empathize with and speaks to beliefs they already hold. And it's far from exclusive to The Mortal Instruments series, or even the YA Paranormal genre as a whole; you're not going to do away with these fantasies simply by cherry-picking and forbidding a handful of guilty books.Personally, I'd recommend avoiding the YA Paranormal genre altogether because: 1.) bad literature, 2.) vapid, 3.) vapid, 4.) vapid.
There are literally thousands of amazing and intellectual books you and your niece could be reading. Give her one of those.
Its fiction, I think that kids should read it, if they really want to. the good thing is that they are using their minds and actually reading, not wasting it on a video game, or in the streets. plus there are some vocabulary words that could really help at that age. its not like it'll give the kid ideas about going out and selling drugs.
I think it all depends on the preteen, but this book series doesn't have anything too extreme or inappropriate for kids/preteens anyway, so in my opinion it would be fine.
Belle wrote: "definity agree"
I can tell you're a big TMI fan!
I can tell you're a big TMI fan!
I keep reading these comments because I realized there's one thing that irritates me. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT MATURITY. Being mature or not isn't the issue here. It's all about CONTENT. You know how on certain movies and tv shows it will say warning adult like situations or adult swim things like that? You could have the most mature child ever! You could have a little einstien! But you're telling me that if that child is extremely matue for eleven or twelve even thirteen years old you're going to let them read a book with content not fit for their age? Maturity has NOTHING to do with it. It's all about the CONTEN of the story and the mortal instruments has a lot of content that a 12 yeard old should NOT be reading. I wouldn't even allow a 13 year old. It says 14 for a reason and in the later books 14 is a little ehhh sometimes. I'm extremely mature for my age. So that means my mother is going to let me read 59 shades of grey? HELL NO. It's all about the CONTENT OF A STORY. Just because I'm a mature ten year old or mature 13 year old does NOT mean I can read an adult novel or a novel clearly written for older viewers because of CONTENT. I'm sorry but this irritates me so much. I feel like not everyone gets it.
I think the problem here is that we are linking mental maturity with age. Maturity is a HUGE part of what makes a person ready to read something, or watch something. Age, does not. There are many people that are young, and can handle more adult situations.
There are many people who aren't completely shocked at the mere mention of -gasp- sex.
Intelligence (little Einstein) has nothing to do with maturity.
The Mortal Instruments is not erotica (50 Shades of Grey.)
The content of these books is fictional and some children/young adults/ adults/ whoever the heck reads these/ can grasp that.
Some people are MATURE enough to handle the themes that run through these books. These stories aren't going to corrupt the young. Young people do not need to be as sheltered as some "adults" might think. I said it before, and I'll say it again, there is NOTHING in these books that isn't on television, or on the playground, or in the halls of the local high school.
Unless your kid is in a bubble, they already know all of this.
Even if we drop the age down so we're talking about 12 and 13 year olds. Have you been to a local middle school? Again, nothing in these books isn't in the hallways.
I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is something going to happen?"But a lot of events were happening. You had Clary witnessing a 'murder'. The tiny unravelling fragments of information that become critical to the story later on in the books. The boy with 'cat's eyes' leaving Dorothea's apartment, which we later discovered was Magnus Bane, the goddamned High Warlock of Brooklyn.
I realize now that my brother is not mentally mature enough to vow himself to that. He considers 'something happening' to when something actually happens, not the build up to it. He found it boring. I told him a lot goes down in the Shadow World; he said nothing was happening.
Do you see my point?
My brother separated the storm from the calm-before-the-storm, the calm-before-the-storm being those little hints dropped in the first several chapters that later influenced what happens in the story: the mention of Valentine (my brother never so much as acknowledged it whereas I was constantly asking myself "Who is Valentine?"), and vice versa.
So, no. 13+Under's are not mentally mature enough, nor do they have the tolerance at such a young age, to withstand something other than something actually happening.
MissMorgenstern wrote: "I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is something going to happen?"But a lot of events were happening. ..."
So because your brother, who happened to be 11 couldn't get into the book, so no one under 15 should read it?
I feel like a lot of folks lump all people together because of their age. Not everyone is the same, not everyone will like every book. Not everyone will be able to read the same thing just because they're a certain age.
Saleana (Triquetra Reviews) wrote: "MissMorgenstern wrote: "I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is something going to happen?"But a lot of..."
MissMorgenstern wrote: "I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is something going to happen?"
But a lot of events were happening. ..."
Totally agree with this statement. But in regards to what Saleana said I do however feel that 14 is the perfect age. I knew people at 12 and 13 that I thought might be mature enough to handle it but couldn't get past the first 50 pages. My point is on all hardcover copies (idk where it is located on paperback) the inside cover says ages 14+ and I think these ppl know what they're doing when they put ages on these books. So in conclusion it depends on what the parent wants and allows. Although like Miss Morgernstern said what's the point of letting a younger preteen or child read it if they are not mature enough to understand or enjoy it. It's basically pointless so my suggestion is to stick with 14+
Mrs.LillyHerondale-Shreave wrote: "Saleana (Triquetra Reviews) wrote: "MissMorgenstern wrote: "I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is some..."Yep. That ^^ … I totally agree.
Saleana (Triquetra Reviews) wrote: "MissMorgenstern wrote: "I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is something going to happen?"But a lot of..."
I don't recall mentioning the age limit I would put on was 15. I said no one under the age of 13.
I agree with you about some folks gathering youngsters into clumps and whatnot, but I'm speaking of The Mortal Instruments. For a child to even attempt to read this series it would blow their mind. TMI is not as complex as other novels, such as non-fiction, romantic novels where the plots in comparison to TMI are simple.
MissMorgenstern wrote: I don't recall mentioning the age limit I would put on was 15. I said no one under the age of 13. I agree with you about some folks gathering youngsters into clumps and whatnot, but I'm speaking of The Mortal Instruments. For a child to even attempt to read this series it would blow their mind. TMI is not as complex as other novels, such as non-fiction, romantic novels where the plots in comparison to TMI are simple.
I'm not understanding how you can make that assumption about all people. Not everyone has the same intelligence level. When I was 11 or 12 I'm positive I would have been able to understand and follow the complex themes of the story. I think that instead of trying to put an age limit on the people who want to read this story, we should let them read what they want as long as they have the consent of their parents/ legal guardians, who are the only ones who should have an opinion on what they read.
Like I said, my brother is still on ten page stories about Chip and Pip.
although i agree on maturity being the yardstick, i also agree on the content issue. maturity is age specific and is individualistic.what if the book has too much adult content and a 13 year old accidentally reads it. would not the child gain unauthorized and unnecessary increase in maturity? As long a responsible adult can confirm that book is appropriate , age is no bar.
That is another issue, Veronica. You're right there. Let's say the child accomplished to read up to CoLS. That scene between Clary and Sebastian is inappropriate. Rape/attempted rape -- not many youngsters even know the meaning of the word. It is far too violent in my opinion.
And there are also profanities expressed in the first book, such as 'dickhead.' That is also inappropriate for such a young age.
IF they read this material and weren't allowed to, I would think it would be a good point to open up a discussion with the child/young adult about these things so you can explain why these things aren't appropriate. Censorship without explanation is just a disservice to those that are being censored. I think we're reading too much into this topic.
It's up to parents. Let your kids read it if you want.
If not, don't let them read it, but explain why.
MissMorgenstern wrote: "That is another issue, Veronica. You're right there. Let's say the child accomplished to read up to CoLS. That scene between Clary and Sebastian is inappropriate. Rape/attempted rape -- not many y..."
i agree. age limit is there for a reason. mind is complex and is vulnerable. even adults have issues. when a tween reads suggestive content he or she might not know how to process such info. it could be traumatic. by the way, it was not just an assault, it is incest. a thing no tween need to be exposed to howsoever realistic might be. had i read something like this as a tween i might have never touched another romance. i would have shunned an entire genre based on one book.
MissMorgenstern wrote: "I attempted to lure my little brother (he's 11) to read CoB. I started reading it to him. I got up to chapter 3 and he said "When is something going to happen?"But a lot of events were happening. ..."
I think this is a good strategy to determine if a book is appropriate for the age. Read the book aloud with the preteen. If you're embarrassed to read some of the passages or if you find yourself explaining too much,then the book isn't a good fit for the (preteen) reader.
It's like PG-13 movies: Parental Guidance is suggested to those under the age of 13. Does that mean no twelve-year old has ever watched a PG-13 movie? No. It means that the people who created the movie realize that there are issues with the movie for children under the age of 13.
Think about it: the creators know there are issues inappropriate for the age group.
The creators (publishers/authors) of this series know that the books deal with issues inappropriate for children under the age of 14. They don't care about your child, specifically. As a whole, in general, this series is not appropriate for children under the age of 14.
Some readers may be outliers, children with sufficient maturity to read the books. On the whole, though, most preteen readers are not ready for the series.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
City of Ashes (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
City of Heavenly Fire (other topics)City of Ashes (other topics)
You have Clary. A little girl with no experience, and no natural common sense, who substitutes emotion for logic at every turn, and is rewarded by the plot by being correct where older, more experienced characters are not. Thats just the start of the problems with this book series.
Both my nieces read Twilight, and liked that series. I read those books, and found no objections, even though I was warned that the books promoted abusive relationships or some such thing. I found nothing that supported that, and started thinking that people were just alarmist. If my daughter turned out to be thoughtful, kind, and forgiving like Bella, I would be proud. Bella was mature. She knew her mind, listened to other peoples advice, but when the matter came to her own well being, she knew she had the right to do what her heart told her to do. Clary thinks she knows what is best for EVERYONE, and shows far less maturity.
I was dismayed right from the start. Clary is wondering around New York City by herself at a very young age, and going to a night club with the blessing of her mother? What kind of parent does that? And it doesn't stop there. Apparently Clary is raised to think that her opinion is as good as anyone's. She has zero humility, and very little shame. In the real world a person with that kind of arrogance with nothing to back it up would get cut down to the right size, but in the world of this book Clary's ever demented, overconfident choice is rewarded.
OF COURSE a young teen would LOVE to think that if a rule makes no sense to them, then it must be wrong. They certainly don't want to think that the reason the rule doesn't make sense to them, is because they don't have enough background information.
For example; When I was a kid I used to hate the rule of our math teacher for saying we HAD to write down ALL the steps of how we solved our problems. It was stupid! I knew how, so why did I have to slow down and do it? Reason: Because when you become an engineer, or a scientist you have complicated solutions, and if the answer is wrong, you need to be able to see where it is wrong. You can't go back and do that if you didn't write down every boring little step. Even a simple mistake will make the answer wrong. Also, you often work with other people, who may need to check your reasoning. Kids don't know everything. They shouldn't be encouraged to think that they do.
There are many other things about this book that rub me the wrong way. The descriptions of swanky black clothing. The AWFUL relationship between Clary and Jace. I think Clary actually hits him in one of the books because she doesn't like something he did. Now that is the kind of thing I do not want my girls to think is allowed in a relationship. I don't want them to get the idea that it is somehow OK to be demeaning to your partner, much less to strike them. It is not OK for girls to be abusive and more then it is Ok for boys to be abusive. A good person always listens to what others have to say. That doesn't mean you have to agree. But you should always hear someone out. If you love someone, you certainly should give them that respect, no matter what has happened. If your lover does something that is too bad to forgive, then you should leave them. If you can forgive them, and think its is the right decision, then do that. BUT you do not put them through the ringer until you decide they have suffered enough. If you need to punish them, then the relationship is doomed anyhow, and you should be respectful enough to let them go with dignity. This idea of "I can't just forgive them right away, I have to make them suffer a bit first" is disgusting. I can't believe people would allow they daughters to read this book rather then Twilight, actually. I hate to discourage reading, but frankly I dislike what this book says even more.