Timothy Wilde Series Book 3 - The Fatal Flame

[Cherie]

Chapter 7 (view spoiler)[ Darn, I want some of those biscuits and butter! I wonder who had stars in her eyes and doesn't now? I like Ninepin, but I have no idea what an "Indian" is. It is not in the flash terminology. So - Symmes was a boxer. hmm. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8 (view spoiler)[ "Jim was peppery" at the piano, sitting next to Val. He is mad? He is upset? Yes, he is mad at Val. I felt so bad for him when Val got up and started his speech. Whew! Now, he has done it! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 (view spoiler)[Wow! I hate that woman (SM)! I could hardly feel sorry for McGlynn, but OMG! (Beaten and having food scraps scattered all over your cell for the night time visitors!) Did you like "the lights best hidden under bushels" though? Symmes keeping Woods as his mistress???? whoa. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Tricia wrote: "Cherie wrote: "Chapter 6 [spoilers removed]"

I think [spoilers removed]"

I agree about Mr. Piest. (view spoiler)[ I loved the description about him being "the most compassionate man on Manhattan Island" and "Mr. Piest strode away with the heart of a warrior and the legs of a langoustine." :o) (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 10 (view spoiler)[ Oh, Tim is jealous. I can understand Elena. Tim needed to hear her say those things and he needed to understand what it might mean for them, if Mercy was back. Elena needs to protect herself too. I hated the meeting in Symmes' office. It sounds like Chief Matsell will be behind Val. Nice to hear that Val notified him of what he was going to do.
Wow - I cannot believe the contents of the letters Symmes gave to Tim and the Chief. I thought the Chief handled his remarks to Symmes very well. "Symmes and Matsell exchanged lethal volleys with their eyeballs." - Loved it! Symmes is just sick! "Lack of feminine virtue and salacious signals" is still such an unbelievable justification today as it was then. And they still try to use it. "She's an offense against the natural order". Do you think we will ever get over that mindset for male or female?Symmes' threat against Val and everyone close to him is truly terrifying! (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 11 (view spoiler)[Isn't it so true that hindsight is still 20/20? What he should have done vs what he did? "hell is summery". Good one! Val is really dreaming that Symmes will not out him. He really hurt Jim. I think I saw the big picture of what Sally was afraid of before she cracked Tim over the head with the whiskey bottle, but I am going to read on before I look too stupid. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 12 (view spoiler)[ At times it is fun to re-read what you have already read, to pick out things to include into comments. I could almost feel myself reeling along with Tim and his broken head, as he made his way to Mercy's address. I loved the banter about the knot on his head and that she picked up his hand to look at his life line, when he asked her "Will I live?" Do kids today know about that stuff? I can remember when I first learned about all of that. I think I was about 10. Poor Tim. "I was brain-injured and in love. So I told her about it". (hide spoiler)]
I am caught up, to where I was before I started writing spoilers the other day. At this rate, it is going to take me the rest of the month or more to finish this book. I do not really care because I have been selfish and reading other things but I have two other library books that I have not cracked the covers on yet.

Do any of you that blasted through the story and are already finished really care? I am trying to decide what I am doing.

Jannene?

[Jannene]

Cherie, I’m reading them. I’m at chapter 9 and trying to catch up.

[Jannene]

Tricia wrote: "Jannene, I'm sorry you're having a rough time. I hope things get better soon. Hang in there and let us know if we can do anything to help."

Thank you.

[Jannene]

Janice wrote: "Jannene wrote: "I just confessed to Dom. I have been having a rough two weeks and work so I come home exhausted. I haven’t done much reading. I have just been listening to some music...."

Take car..."

Thanks.

[Cherie]

Oh, I am sorry, Jeanne. I did not mean to drive you to catch up with me. I just wanted to know if you want me to write them or not.


I just finished chapter 12. I loved it. I just feel so sorry for Tim.
OMG - I just flipped back to the beginning to re cap and realized I had skipped or NOT understood what "the portly fellow with a fuchsia waistcoat" said to Tim. (view spoiler)[Upstairs finally, Tim comes to in the armchair. He said he spent years wondering what Mercy might taste like but her charitable inclinations petrified him??? Oh, ick! (hide spoiler)]

[Tricia]

Cherie wrote: "Chapter 7 [spoilers removed]

Chapter 8 [spoilers removed]

Chapter 9 [spoilers removed]"

Re: Chapter 8 (view spoiler)[I love the word peppery! I hadn't heard it in forever before this chapter, and now I'm determined to bring it back at least in my own family. Let's see how many times I can find to use it over the next few weeks. lol (hide spoiler)]

Re: chapter 9 (view spoiler)[Yes, I was a little conflicted about this part. On the one hand, I couldn't feel sorry for him either, but really, I can't imagine that even at the beginning of police existence when NYC was still pretty rough and tumble that this kind of thing was allowed. Maybe it wasn't explicitly allowed, but everyone definitely looked the other way. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Tricia wrote: "Re: chapter 9 [spoilers removed]"

note - do not read this until after you are done with chapter 18.
"this kind of thing was allowed" (view spoiler)[ what about the "alternative discipline" in the form of the shower bath. It made my stomach churn! (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I was sick yesterday and spent the day in and out of bed and reading off and on. I just finished my lunch hour and am currently at the beginning of chapter 18.

I can see now, why it was so hard to put the book down. I do not want to stop and go back to work, but I must - in a minute.

Chapter 13 (view spoiler)[ Did I get this right? Sally and Ellie were "more" than bloodless sisters. Is Tim implying that they were lovers? "Always together, through hell and hi water"...
Ellie said she tried to protect Sally and said she should not have done. Then she stopped talking. I do not think that was the end of it. An illness? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 14 (view spoiler)[ The marking episode and conversation between Tim and Elena was kind of funny. The "how do you know you are in love" conversation between Tim and Bird was not. It was heartbreaking that she thought Tim was telling her that she was not 'good enough' for Jim, instead of him just telling her that Jim way gay. Then, when he told her, she thought he was lying. The brothers' insults to each other were bad news. I did not expect Val to faint. The fight is on! (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 15 (view spoiler)[ Yay for the Knickerbocker 21s and Tim Wilde! The brothers' fighting and yelling at each other in the Tammany Hall room was almost funny, but sad, until they were interrupted, and even then, they carried on, like two year olds.
I still do not quite understand the Hunker and Barnburner factions. I think I need to do more Googling. I am not sure I even understood the whole conversation they had. Maybe I did and just need to wait and see where it goes. I also did not get Silkie Marsh being there. Just to put in that her house needed to be protected, but she had already told that to Tim. Did she go just to threaten them that she would get Villers involved? Revenge... Val really has the most guilty feelings of any person in this whole story. Why did he warn Tim to stay away from Mercy? Oh, Tim with his head on his folded arms at the end of the chapter made me want to cry. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 16 (view spoiler)[ First part - So, he admits he feels affection for Elena.
Were the remarks, after Elena waved good bye to him the first time that we knew that these stories were written in Tim's future, as he looked back on the events "many years ago"? Second part - with Mercy. The black pudding story was "Ugh!"
The whole witch thing was weird and creepy. The heartstring around his finger? Why? Like he was going to forget her? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 17 (view spoiler)[ First part - The Witch. "She was terrifying." She was just too mean to die. Again, he did not kiss Mercy and is kicking himself. Second part - Mr. Wolf. - He was interesting but I did not think Tim really got anything from him. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 18 (view spoiler)[ Next, the water bath. THAT was shocking! All that Kildare did to him and McGlynn still did not talk. Good thing Connell came along when he did. What is Wolf going to write???

@the Queen Mab - the oil lamp and Sally Wood. My heart was in my throat! "He was one of the most gorgeously ugly sights I'd ever clapped eyes on." Poor, wonderful Mr. Piest.

Next part - what "colonel, fresh returned from the war in Texas stared out of a woman's face", is Tim thinking about while he looks at Sally Woods behind bars?

Next - I loved the kitchen party with Tim, Elena and Bird. The knocking at the back door. OMG! (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

I just finished chapter 13.

[Cherie]

Chapter 19 (view spoiler)[ Oh my God, this is so terrible! It is so unspeakable, what they did to Jim. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

End of chapter 19 (view spoiler)[ Did anyone figure out what word was so singular in Tim’s letter to Mercy that it would “seal their fates”??? I read it over and over!

So Symmes is burning his buildings for the insurance money. When Tim told Sally about having to take care of Jim because he was his brother’s friend, her pained expression and “grief” told Tim that something along the same lines is what happened to her friend. She had been hurt to get back at Sally. Got it. So the incendiary is still a her. Am I just stupid? Is it Miss Able? (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I figured, since I started down this path, I should continue...

Chapter 20 (view spoiler)[ The bantering between Jim and Tim is heartbreaking and beautiful. I did not know morphine could be made into a tonic and taken that way. I have always associated it with needles. I really like the Chief and his fondness for Tim. The voting process seemed too impossible to believe. Piest and Connell are truly amazing friends to Tim. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 21 (view spoiler)[ On the way to the meeting with Symmes… Tim is telling Val about the fires. They are talking about Ellie potentially being kidnapped and how it was going to come about that Symmes was going to blame them, but again the who is setting the fires??? The witch??? Oh, the announcement of who will be the new Alderman is brilliant. Red or Blue fireworks. It reminds me of the colored smoke when they are electing a new Pope. Five stories up to the roof. Just the three of them... The flash was interesting. Oh - they had raped Ellie. OMG, I cannot believe Symmes is so stupid the way he told Val about what he had done to Jim and even threatened Tim. He must have a death wish. Val is going to arrest him? Oh 1:1! Symmes lost! But - has Val won? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 22 (view spoiler)[ Val is frightened? Of Tim? His first murder? What???? Oh, he felt he had murdered their parents and was sure that Tim had felt he had done so. Touching moment, with Tim hugging him. It felt so good to have them resolving their issues. Oh - good thing Val won! How would they have explained Symmes away if not. Good plan, author!!!! Silkie Marshes house is on fire! I could not believe Tim went in after Val. Picking a door lock with a piece of glass??? Oh, come on! "Hello, darling old shoe," Val said... I love it! The bars on the window almost served her right, except that Tim and Val are trying to save her. The rooftop rescue was heart stopping! "A lifeline made of shirts." I was praying, along with Tim, as Val began to cross it. And then to see Kane and Villers in the street watching the house burn gave me a chill. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 23 first part (view spoiler)[ I could not believe how cold blooded Kane and Villers were to Silkie. I don't believe she deserved to be burned to death in her own home. And Tim, ever the decent guy that he is, asked her if she was all right.

Tim - off to question the witch! (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

I’m up to chapter 18. My various thoughts throughout the book.

(view spoiler)[I am saddened to see that Tim is still hung up on Mercy. I think he deserves better. Yet, he just cannot get past his love for her. To be honest, I think it is more of an obsession or severe lust since he has never seemed to kiss her.

Val and the scene with Jim was frightening. My heart broke for Jim. Val is such a jerk. Then you get little wisps of what Val has done and the guilt he carries throughout his life and you can understand why he continues to medicate in all sorts of ways. I think he is afraid to get attached to people because he feels that harm will come to them.

Mr. Piest has such an amazing heart. I think he is my favorite character. He is so understated. He is very intuitive. The way he saved Tim from humiliation was a wonder.

Bird in love with Jim? Seriously? She just met him. Then again, she is just 13 and the first crush feels like love. I felt so bad that she misinterpreted what Tim was trying to tell her about him.

I don’t understand Ms. Marsh in this book. I don’t know if she holds all of the information or what. I cannot stand her. Although they found someone more evil than her in the witch at the sewing factory. She was quite something.

Mercy is losing her mind. Again, I wish Tim would walk away. It kind of reminds me of the Notebook only Mercy doesn’t seem to be into Tim or is just waiting for him to make the move.

Ms. Boehm is another favorite character of mine. She always patches things up and figures out how to ground Tim. I just wish he would hurry up with his feelings for her. The relationship became to convenient. He being “too kind” ends up sending the wrong message to her. He’s throwing so many mixed signals at her that I just feel beside myself.

I think Ms. Abell was raped and got pregnant. I think she then lost the baby and is on a vengeance kick. I’m sure he did something to her to make her lose the child.

(hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 23 second part (view spoiler)[ The whole scene and conversation with Nell Grimshaw was just too much. She is so much more awful, now that we know the truth. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 24 (view spoiler)[ Just unaccountably sad. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

I finished the book.

[Tricia]

I'm just getting back here to read spoilers. Cherie and Jannene, I love reading some of the points you made.

Jannene, I agree with you about favorite characters. (view spoiler)[Mr. Piest and Mrs. Boehm were two of my favorites as well. I think that's what makes a good book, having secondary characters that are really well-done and likable. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie, more about police brutality, (view spoiler)[I couldn't believe the shower bath thing either. Who even comes up with a thing like that? I'm glad they were able to put a stop to it this time, but all in front of a reporter. Can you imagine if something like that happened within sight of the media today? Yikes! We'd never hear the end of it. (hide spoiler)]

The epilogue: What did you think of it? (view spoiler)[I love that Bird and Nine Pin end up together and seem to both be productive adults despite their rough starts in life. It's also great to see that Val and Jim are both still around and that Tim has maintained his friendships with the other police. I know the whole thing with Mercy played out how it probably should have, but I wish Mrs. Boehm was still there as well. Oh well, can't have it all I guess. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

The epilogue: (view spoiler)[At first, I thought Tim was late to his own wedding with Mercy. Then it had comments about how he should have proposed and he may have kids now. So I thought ok, this must be Ms. Boehm’s wedding. I was totally surprised it was Bird. I was astonished because I thought she was still 13 and then they mentioned she was around 19. Still young if you ask me but back then they married young and didn’t live very long.

I loved how Tim got a black eye on her wedding and how everyone just laughed. I thought it was entertaining as well.

Jim, bless the man. I think he was really the unsung hero in this book. He put up with Val no matter what. I decided that Val after nearly losing Jim twice that he came to his senses and stayed with him. Yes, it may be very unlikely but the author is leaving it up to me on what I believe.

I still didn’t see Mercy getting ill in the cards. In the beginning of the series I was naive to believe they would get together. I thought that was the kind of ending we would get but I guess the author wanted to do the unexpected.

I still feel Tim deserves something better. I guess that is why we all like him so much. Throughout the entire books, he was true to himself. I think he found comfort in Ms. Boehm but would never marry her because he still loved Mercy and that proves how deep he is to his convictions. (hide spoiler)]

I would like to read another series with all of you. Maybe we can find another mystery trilogy?

[Cherie]

I finished.

More later.

I have to go buy a new refrigerator.

[Cherie]

Hmmm, I am still mulling over the ending and epilog. I have re-read both parts over and over, I think the author was in a hurry to give us a look back at where it ended and wrap up Tim's choices. I did not bring my tablet with me to work today.

I read all of the spoilers that you all wrote. I gave the book five stars. I thought it was an excellent story and I would read it again. It almost feels that way now, because of the way I went back to read through the chapters as I picked out the points that I put in my spoilers. Jayme or Tricia made some remarks about the title of the book that I want to think about too. I am ready to move on, but I am still stuck in Tim's past or, was it his future?

[Jannene]

Cherie wrote: "Hmmm, I am still mulling over the ending and epilog. I have re-read both parts over and over, I think the author was in a hurry to give us a look back at where it ended and wrap up Tim's choices. I..."

I also felt like I was missing something and stuck somewhere. Overall, I felt it was a very good series and I have recommended it to my work book club. Two people are already reading it.

I have a new trilogy if anyone is interested. I read the first book Hades and it was great. I recommended it to two people and they loved it and finished the series. I still have yet to read the 2nd and 3rd book. If anyone is interested, I wouldn’t mind rereading the first and doing the entire series.

[Cherie]

I have Hades on my TBR list. It sounds interesting to me and I love books set in Australia. I am struggling to get through the current books I have in process, but I would look forward to reading the trilogy with you, Jannene.

[Jannene]

Cherie, when would you be available to read it? The first book was great. I have all of the paperbacks.

[Cherie]

I cannot figure out how to put it all down for a wrap with Timothy so I will just try to spoiler them with the subject.

The title of the book (view spoiler)[ I always love the challenge of finding something in a story that leads to why a specific title was chosen for a book. It is possible that The Fatal Flame for the third book was a look back at how Tim's life could have been different, if he had not been burned in the fire of 1845, but I really think it is pointed at the fire in the Pell house that killed the two outworkers. (hide spoiler)]

Elena (view spoiler)[ Initially, I was disappointed when I realized that she and Timothy were not going to be together, as a couple, like I think we all wanted. I really loved her character and how she was always there for Tim and Bird. She made me feel that there was always hope for Tim to be okay and move on from his fixation on Mercy. I thought it wonderful how the author made her character be able to move on by marrying the German beer maker and moving to California and her selling Tim her house and business so that he and Bird still had a home that they both loved and that Bird could have a lively hood. (hide spoiler)]

Bird (view spoiler)[she was always a great character and interest for Tim to care about and provide that father interest that lasted right up to the end of the story. Their misunderstandings made them both stronger and I did love some of their conversations. The wedding was both humorous and sweet. (hide spoiler)]

Val (view spoiler)[ a hard man to understand and accept at times, but totally a real human being, both as a brother to Tim, and for his love for James Playfair. I could not imagine how he could carry around the guilt that he had murdered their parents and that he had failed Tim, as a young boy, trying to care for a little brother and still make his way through his own life. I definitely admired him at the end, even with his list of "failings". (hide spoiler)]

Jim (view spoiler)[ he seemed always a true, valent human being, even if his family disowned him for his sexual orientation. He was honest, even when hurt, and what was done to him was so truly terrible. I was glad when he survived. I really had not expected him to. I thought him leaving with Val at the end was going to be the last of him. (hide spoiler)]

Silkie (view spoiler)[ she was cruel and self serving to the end, but I really liked that she was able to escape the fire in her house. Do you think she got revenge on Villers for what he authorized to "put her in her place"? She seemed to fade away into the night. That was okay with me. (hide spoiler)]

The Witch (view spoiler)[ wicked! I never saw it coming that she was Symmes' mother. I just barely figured out that she was lighting the fires - the candles were just a little weird and especially the emphasis on the number of them. I could not imagine that she was actually working for Symmes. She was horrible and deserved to hang. (hide spoiler)]

Sally and Ellie (view spoiler)[ I could not figure them out for a long time, but their parts were finally rolled out, and made sense at the end. It was hard to tell if they were lovers or just good, good friends. Doesn't bother me either way. (hide spoiler)]

Mercy (view spoiler)[ it was sad that she lost her mind, but it sounded like she had a good life, with the Doctor and Tim caring for her. (hide spoiler)]

Tim (view spoiler)[ our hero was just one of those people to go through life being loved by others, but not loving himself, nor having the love of his life, like he had always dreamed. It was gratifying, though, to watch him grow emotionally and be successful in a job that he was good at but did not care for. I definitely did not regret meeting him and listening to his story, even if the timeline was a bit confusing at the end. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

Cherie, I love your comments about Val. I laugh at Tim and his list. The part where Val makes him repeat it made me laugh out loud. Especially when Val made some comment like “that is one hell of a list.” I was nearly rolling on the floor!

You made a great point about him and his guilt. Somehow that ended up taking a backseat in my mind but it is very important to the entire story.

[Cherie]

I really enjoy the author's writing skills. I did not care for the flash terms all that much, but I can understand why it was important to her. She was at least consistent, even if I did have to look up the words more than once. I thought the chapter headers in all of the books were interesting. They did prompt me do quite a bit of reading about the politics of the time, and about the "state" of New York City at the time these stories took place. I have read enough of this author to even identify parts of dialogue from other stories she has written. It was fun to see them. My ebook had an introduction of her book Jane Steele. I am looking forward to reading it, especially from the Jane Eyre angle - it is one of my favorite books.

If you have not read Lyndsay Faye before, and you like Sherlock Holmes, I highly recommend her book Dust and Shadow: An Account of the Ripper Killings by Dr. John H. Watson and her book of short stories The Whole Art of Detection: Lost Mysteries of Sherlock Holmes. I have not read them, but I love listening to Simon Vance's narration for both of them. I cannot tell you how many times I have listened to the former.