The Unknown Ajax July 2019 Group Read Spoilers

[Abigail]

Lady Aurelia is magnificent.

[Jackie]

Ah wrote: "I love the fact that the characters undercut stereotypes - the dashing Vincent is petty and spiteful, the adventurous Richmond has no judgement and needs to be rescued, while the apparently non-sel..."

I love this! I certainly never thought of it.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I reread a few passages last night (not been a great week & I needed to de-stress) & one thing that struck me about the final scene - Ottenshaw doesn't make any comment about the (presumably smuggled) brandy!

[Susan in NC]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I reread a few passages last night (not been a great week & I needed to de-stress) & one thing that struck me about the final scene - Ottenshaw doesn't make any comment about the (presumably smuggl..."

Oh, that’s right!

[Jenny]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I reread a few passages last night (not been a great week & I needed to de-stress) & one thing that struck me about the final scene - Ottershaw doesn't make any comment about the (presumably smuggl..."

Well, he can't tell just by looking at it!

What strikes me about that scene is that he doesn't notice how quickly Hugo has sobered up - he's obviously sloshed when he appears in the drawing room and there's not a sign of it by the time he gets downstairs.

[Susan in NC]

Jenny, that’s true, I hadn’t thought about it! Great point - thank God Lady Aurelia is the intimidating presence she is, threw Ottershaw thoroughly off his game!

[Jackie]

oh, Jenny, I never noticed that - he did "sober up" too quickly, didn't he?

[Moloch]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Does anyone find the gentleman on the cover shown to be their idea of Hugo?"

On this cover ?

Yeah, why not? It's fine for me

[Moloch]

The only character I found wholly unlikeable is Lord Darracott; he really is depicted as totally negative, although I tried to picture him as an embittered old man who had many losses and it was touching in the end seeing him stricken by the realization of what the life he imposed on his favorite grandson has made of him and how he was very near to lose him too, and much for his own fault. But that wasn't enough to "redeem" a character that Heyer intentionally portrays as very, very bad.

But for Vincent, I liked him a lot. Not in the sense that he is "nice", but he is a great character. I totally got the sense of his irritation at being suddenly relegated to the second place (in the inheritance, in his young cousin's consideration, in Anthea's affection-this is just a little hint but I think it's there), and also his insistence of making fun of it, as if he didn't really care (but he cared a lot!). Also his frustration because, with all the airs of importance he gives himself, his parents are rather dissatisfied with him, as they often tell him, and the petty jealousy of his younger brother. In short, he pretends he's above all these things, and yet he's not.

I have a soft spot for "flawed" characters, and I enjoyed very much his arc.

I thought the author could make more of his antagonism with Hugo, but in the end I liked a lot Vincent and Hugo becoming allies (or, better, Vincent recognizing Hugo's leadership and helping out in the scheme).

[Moloch]

Jenny wrote: "Oh, but do you really believe him?! I thought it was an obvious fabrication. "

And yet I would have loved if Amelia existed! As Carolina says, it would have been an unusual plot device

[Moloch]

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Jan wrote: "I finished my read but this time (potential unpopular opinion alert) I was a little dissatisfied by the big scene at the end. I felt it was a little too drawn out, and there was too muc..."

The final scene is too long for me also. It's meant to be a little "theatre piece" (well, quite obviously, because many are playing a part!) and it shows when Heyer meticulously describes all the set and the positions of everyone... but it's a case where it would have worked better in a theatre indeed, or in a movie (I mean, live action, not in a book).

[Julie]

Cindy wrote: "The last scene is long but it does an excellent job of building suspense (the first time you read it, anyway, as Abigail noted) because there are so many ways it can go wrong, and it does an excell..."

I’ve just read the ending for the first time and I have to agree about the suspense. Just when you think they’ve succeeded, it looks like it’s all going to come unravelled...Ottershaw asking to see Richmond’s shoulder, now there’s a cliffhanger if ever there was one!

And that image of the 11 earls arrayed behind Aurelia - wonderful! That is a great moment when she steps in and saves the day.

And Hugo sticking a pin in Claud...very funny, that.

[Julie]

I love the humorous banter between Anthea and Hugo. Anthea at one point laments that as a suitor he falls short of the ideal because he makes her want to giggle at his every utterance...well, by far the best sort, I would have thought!

I do adore Hugo, and in many ways he shows himself to possess the qualities which Anthea attributes to him at the end. But I have to say that whereas Lady Aurelia commends Vincent for - despite all his other failings - his truthfulness, by contrast Hugo tells the most “shocking whiskers.” Of course he always has a reason, as he sees it, and his pranking is delightful, and part of both his character and the plot. But perhaps it would have been nice to have a scene at the end, between the lovers, where we see him being genuine and not joking with Anthea?

[Jan]

Julie wrote: "But perhaps it would have been nice to have a scene at the end, between the lovers, where we see him being genuine and not joking with Anthea? "

Totally agree.

[Abigail]

Maybe, though Anthea seems always to know when he's kidding. They seem to understand each other very well.

[Sandy]

I imagined the scene I needed. It ended too abruptly for me.

[Jackie]

Sandy wrote: "I imagined the scene I needed. It ended too abruptly for me."

yes, I think that's true - after all that loooong draw out scene where Richmond is finally, just by the skin of his teeth and the help of everyone in the family, saved it just ends and there isn't enough time spent wrapping up the actual love affair, it's just secondary to Richmond's problems.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Cindy wrote: "The last scene is long but it does an excellent job of building suspense (the first time you read it, anyway, as Abigail noted) because there are so many ways it can go wrong, and it does an excellent..."

Good points Cindy.

For me, the ending is about right. After multiple times reading the start is a bit slow - just can't wait for Hugo to enter & light up the story! :)

[Jan]

Sandy wrote: "I imagined the scene I needed. It ended too abruptly for me."

Me too to both of your points, Sandy.

[Teresa]

Cindy wrote: "The last scene is long but it does an excellent job of building suspense (the first time you read it, anyway, as Abigail noted) because there are so many ways it can go wrong, and it does an excell..."

Cindy, I loved that excerpt as well. I could almost see them all lined up behind her, smiling, proud of their girl.

[Teresa]

I loved it this time round. Each time I re read one of these with the group I enjoy it more and more and get so much more out of it. Reading other people's comments gives me a better perspective of the novel. I've moved this up to one of my top five.

[Tuesdayschild]

Abigail wrote: "He’s such a jolly sweetheart, without sacrificing his intelligence or masculinity.

I think so too! Hugo ranks right up there as one of my favourite Heyer heroes, he's so 'good' for the Darracott family: he displays such good-humoured wit against the backdrop of the other Darracott males; and, he knows exactly how to handle Lord Darracott after Richmond's antics gift him with that much needed, levelling, reality check: Lord Darracott is such a self-centred, nasty old man.
***
Musing out loud here, I wonder what personality disorder he'd (Lord Darracott) be labelled with nowadays ;)

[Teresa]

I have to agree. He's one of the most unpleasant characters I've come across. Even when he realised it was his treatment of Richmond that made him do what he did I still didn't feel sorry for him. A horrible person.

[Michaela]

Loved the end scene too, and esp. Lady Aurelia´s intervening - like a play!

Hugo´s and the other´s characters are well drawn, but the ladies definitely have too little time for themselves. Also miss the love story and esp. its happy end!

The first half of the book was rather boring, so on the whole I wasn´t very impressed by this novel which was so recommended by some GH fans.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I'm plodding through Troilus and Cressida the Ajax quotes lighten it up for me. :)

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

& I wouldn't recommend reading Troilus & Cressida. Maybe it works better on the stage.

[Margaret]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "& I wouldn't recommend reading Troilus & Cressida. Maybe it works better on the stage."

I'd say that's true of most Shakespeare plays!

[Teresa]

I wish I could just understand the guy!!!

[Abigail]

Troilus and Cressida might be the exception to the "works better on stage" rule. I saw it when I was about 20 and it was a hot mess.

[Margaret]

Abigail wrote: "Troilus and Cressida might be the exception to the "works better on stage" rule. I saw it when I was about 20 and it was a hot mess."

Might have been a poor production, though. The downside of every dramatic production being a collaboration of sorts...

[Jane]

Oh sweet boogers this has been a BUSY summer!!! I didn't finish listening to Venetia until about two weeks ago and I just now squeaked under the wire and finished listening to TUA. Loved them both, of course!! The audible narrator for this one was fantastic; and I loved hearing Hugo's and John Joseph's strong Yorkshire accents/dialect.

On to Snowdrops/Pistols.... wish there was an audio version, guess I'll have to actually remember how to read a book. :)

[Theresa]

I actually only read and finished Unknown Ajax last week, but oh what a delight! I had no memory of having read it before...until the dramatic scene to fool Ottershaw which seemed familiar. Although I believe there is a similar extended scene in The Talisman Ring which I re-read a year or so ago, and that might be why it is so familiar.

I loved it, of course! Hugo is such an awesome character! His skill at dissembling and 'acting all innocent' is unsurpassed in literature, I think. And I just love all the clues that Heyer has provided to alert us that Hugo may not be quite what the Darracott family superficially assumes: all the allusions and quotes to Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida's portrayal of Ajax which of course does not at all mesh with Homer's portrayal, the book's title, The constant use of 'weaver's brat', his military career.

I love how the women of the family are truly not fooled for a minute, not even Anthea's mother.

I loved how the romance was pushed to the background in the story, yet the exchanges between Anthea and Hugo are some of the funniest, wittiest ones in all of Heyer's work.

And I absolutely loved the entire saga of the Darracott family, from the first moments you meet all of them as they wait for the arrival of the mysterious heir. In those initial chapters, Heyer so very deftly shows the dysfunction of the family, it's impoverishment both emotionally and financially. It's not really a particularly likable bunch, nor would I want to spend any time with them at their deteriorating manse. The story really is all about the Darracott family and how Hugo's arrival becomes the catalyst that not only saves the family (I don't mean just financially) but makes them a real united and supportive family.

I absolutely adored how Hugo used the family pre-judgments and assumptions to his advantage while he evaluated his potential legacy. Hugo could have been a terrific spy during the Peninsular Wars.

And OMG how I loved the competition between Polyphant and Crimplesham! The jealousies! The posturing! Their names! It all just added so much to my enjoyment.

The Unknown Ajax has for sure moved up to join Venetia and Frederica as one of my favorite Heyers.

[Teresa]

Polyphant and Crimplesham, even if I had disliked the book, which I didn't, I would have been completely captivated once I read about these two. I LOVED the rivalry between the two and the names were just class!!!

[Karlyne]

Theresa wrote: "I actually only read and finished Unknown Ajax last week, but oh what a delight! I had no memory of having read it before...until the dramatic scene to fool Ottershaw which seemed familiar. Althoug..."

Thumbs up, Theresa! Good points!

[Abigail]

What a lovely paean to one of my favorite books, Theresa! Thank you for your eloquent praise, which brought it all alive for me again.

[MaryC]

Just now I've been looking for an exchange that I thought would be in this thread, but I can't find it. A couple of months ago, when we were discussing Hugo's appearance, I said that I envisioned him as looking rather like Dorothy Dunnett's Nicolo, and another reader responded--can't remember who, but I'd like to hear from her again. Since this isn't a GH subject, maybe she could email me at aida1200@hotmail.com. Is that OK?

[Jackie]

I was just thinking about The Unknown Ajax because I've started October's read, The Nonesuch, and one of the young gentlemen uses the phrase "sneck up" which from the context I guess means "shut up" - and I remembered it was something Hugo said when he was using his dialect.
I've read The Nonesuch many times and this is the first time I noticed that phrase used. it's interesting how much we "skim" when we think we are reading!

[mark]

Just finished this one last night and I completely loved it. my third 5 star book by Heyer this year, which surprises me a bit since I'm miserably stingy with my 5 stars. and my 7th book by her.

that ending! what a remarkable piece of work. so delightful and so carefully set up by all that preceded it. everything fit together so perfectly. and I appreciated how Heyer made sure nearly everyone had their moment, and most of them came out of those chapters as surprisingly admirable characters. Heyer's heart is not a stingy one, even sparing sympathy for the miserable and misery-inflicting lord of the manor. and of course the officious but still rather admirable Lieutenant.

really enjoyed the focus on the rivalry between servants. those names! "Polyphant" in particular.

Loved Hugo, of course. but I also loved Lady Aurelia and Claud just as much. what fun, memorable characters. Claud reminded me a bit of the male protagonist from Cotillion. I love how Heyer cycles through her character types - supporting character in one novel, protagonist in another.

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Does anyone find the gentleman on the cover shown to be their idea of Hugo?"

no!


Cindy wrote: "He reminds me of Jim on The Office..."

yes!

[Critterbee❇]

mark wrote: "Just finished this one last night and I completely loved it. my third 5 star book by Heyer this year, which surprises me a bit since I'm miserably stingy with my 5 stars. and my 7th book by her.

t..."

Glad you enjoyed it! Good point about Heyer writing all of the characters as being a least a little bit sympathetic, I did not consider that before. Even Vincent starts to grow on you towards the end!

[Theresa]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "mark wrote: "Just finished this one last night and I completely loved it. my third 5 star book by Heyer this year, which surprises me a bit since I'm miserably stingy with my 5 stars. and my 7th bo..."

Yes, an excellent point.