The Unknown Ajax July 2019 Group Read Spoilers

[Critterbee❇]

This is the thread in which to let all Unknown Ajax spoilers loose! Final conclusions and Ajax spoilers welcome here.

[Critterbee❇]

Does anyone find the gentleman on the cover shown to be their idea of Hugo?

[Jackie]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Does anyone find the gentleman on the cover shown to be their idea of Hugo?"

not at all!

[Barb in Maryland]

Here's another cover fail---
This is the cover of the first edition I read way back in 1969:


Hugo is not only unknown, he's almost invisible!!

[Abigail]

And so tiny! I could never imagine Hugo as being so small.

[Barb in Maryland]

Abigail wrote: "And so tiny! I could never imagine Hugo as being so small."

Perspective was not his friend, was it? Just how far behind Anthea was he standing??

[Abigail]

Another county, I think . . .

[Critterbee❇]

Abigail wrote: "Another county, I think . . ."

Haha!
:D

[Margaret]

I think many of G H's book covers leave much to be desired. My very old copy of the reluctant widow has a cover that would be more suited to a lurid thriller. I am sure whoever chose it cannot have read the book.

[Jackie]

from the thread about the first chapters:

Barb in Maryland wrote: "I love Hugo and Anthea is a dear--but the rest of the Darracotts! {{{shudder}}} It has only been 2 years since I last read this, so I think I'll give it as pass..."

I doubt I'm alone in really liking Aurelia much more by the end. She is introduced to us as dull and the last person you want seeing your garden (critical) but it's such fun watching her absolutely never giving Lord Darracott the satisfaction of reacting to his jibes.

and now that I've just re-read the part where she is introduced I already like her better, even though she needed to rest after splitting the short journey into two days and in other ways seems like she would be kind of a pain to entertain.

who else do we like better by the end, Claude?

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

A member of our group, Pamela, in her review suggests reading at least a synopsis of Troilus and Cressida I do have a complete works of Shakespeare, but just the idea of coping with its light, transparent pages makes me shudder, so I've downloaded a free copy from Amazon.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

& in answer to Jackie. I always liked Claude. He is unintentionally very funny. By the end I did have a far more favourable impression of the (wonderful) Lady Aurelia. I think excuses can be made for Richmond. There is no mention of any friends, his cousins are much older. Other than his sister he has no appropriate role model. Not surprisingly he is spoilt & without a true moral compass.

Vincent improves marginally by the end, but I think he & Lord Darracott other than (Faro's daughter spoiler)(view spoiler)[Deb's brother (hide spoiler)] are the two most unlikeable non villains in any GH romance.

[Ah]

I think the ending of TUA is one of Heyer's best!

I adore Aurelia, but I think all the characters are amazingly well developed and drawn :)

[Rosina]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Vincent improves marginally by the end, but I think he & Lord Darracott other than (Faro's daughter spoiler)(view spoiler) are the two most unlikeable non villains in any GH romance"

Lord Darracott is a curmudgeon and an indolent landlord, and I'm not sure that I can come up with any defence of him, although he's not quite as selfish as the old man in Cotillion: at least he doesn't play on his sciatica. But I rather like Vincent. He must have amiable qualities, to counter his spendthrift ways (encouraged by grandfather Darracott). He does have true family feeling and a sense of humour. And he shows appreciation of Hugo at the end, and pulls his weight. I'll cut him a bit of slack.

On the other hand, I think that these days Claude would be outed by #MeToo for abuse of class privilege in his pursuit of village maidens.

[Abigail]

I agree about the climax of the book, Ah! Heyer really draws out the suspense; I always feel wrung out by the end of it.

[MaryC]

Jackie wrote: "from the thread about the first chapters:

Barb in Maryland wrote: "I love Hugo and Anthea is a dear--but the rest of the Darracotts! {{{shudder}}} It has only been 2 years since I last read this, ..."

As I recall (not reading along at the moment, but reread it on audiobook not too long ago), Lady Aurelia sees through Hugo from the beginning. After they've been playing cards all evening and another family member (her husband, I think) comes in and asks how their evening has gone, she replies that they've had a fine time, "cutting jokes," etc. No one else who was there can understand why she would say such a thing, but it's pretty clear that she hasn't been taken in by his bumpkin act.

[Critterbee❇]

You def cannot get anything over on Lady Aurelia!

[Andrea AKA Catsos Person]

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Here's another cover fail---
This is the cover of the first edition I read way back in 1969:


Hugo is not only unknown, he's almost invisible!!"

Horrible. They would have done better with an image of a bowl of fruit!

[Cindy]

MaryC wrote: "As I recall (not reading along at the moment, but reread ii on audiobook not too long ago), Lady Aurelia sees through Hugo from the beginning. ..."

Yes, Lady Aurelia is the first (and only) one to see through Hugo's charade. On that first night, when her husband is complaining to her about what a dolt Hugo is, she surprisingly replies that she thinks Hugo will do very well. Her only problem with him is his "tendency to levity." Her husband, of course, is completely at a loss and she has to explain to him that Hugo has been mocking them all evening. She's a sharp one!

[Critterbee❇]

And also, Aurelia recognizes that the mocking is not unmerited, with the way that the family treated Hugo.

[Critterbee❇]

Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:


I have read the first 6 chapters, and I'm really liking it for now! I like both Hugo and Anthea, and even when her family would be a really annoying company in real life, they're a fun bunch to read about.

For now, my impressions are (some spoilers from these first chapters to come):
- The summary kinda reminded me to Downton abbey, with the new heir from a lower social class and the main couple not wanting to marry at first, but then, of course they will fall in love.
- I'm surprised to see that Hugo is already "half-engaged" to another woman. That's not a common plot device, and I'm curious to see where it goes.

I was kinda expecting more bickering from the two of them, but I suppose they're too sensible for that! (Or maybe it will come later?) It was funny that Hugo got such a wrong first impression of Anthea in that first dinner because she was actively disobeying her grandad and not paying attention to the new heir.

[Susan in NC]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:


I have read the first 6 chapters, and I'm really liking it for now! I like both Hugo and Anthea, and even when her family would be a r..."

True - on your last point, it was funny that Anthea was actively disobeying her grandfather, I think if I had to live with him I might find Hugo a bargain! I think if she wasn’t so concerned about protecting her mother from grandpa’s ire, she would be trying to get away from the Place.

[Cindy]

I'm glad that Anthea finally realizes what a treasure has been dropped on her doorstep! I love Damerel's sarcasm, but I love Hugo's prankstering even more. He reminds me of Jim on The Office, never passing up a chance to have a little fun with someone (for you Office fans)! ;)

[Abigail]

He’s such a jolly sweetheart, without sacrificing his intelligence or masculinity.

I have two and a half more books to get through before I can treat myself to a reread of this.

[Rosina]

I am impressed by the way that Vincent, Anthea and others can reel off quotations from Troilus and Cressida. After all, they had no reason to think that swotting up in advance would be useful and T&C is hardly one of the more well-known plays.

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "He’s such a jolly sweetheart, without sacrificing his intelligence or masculinity.

I have two and a half more books to get through before I can treat myself to a reread of this."

Yes! I just adore him, and his reaction to the unbearable snobbishness of the family.

[MaryC]

Rosina wrote: "I am impressed by the way that Vincent, Anthea and others can reel off quotations from Troilus and Cressida. After all, they had no reason to think that swotting up in advance would be useful and T..."

Cindy wrote: "I'm glad that Anthea finally realizes what a treasure has been dropped on her doorstep! I love Damerel's sarcasm, but I love Hugo's prankstering even more. He reminds me of Jim on The Office, never..."

Hugo also reminds me of Dorothy Dunnett's Niccolo, although Hugo is not the manipulator that Niccolo is.

[MaryC]

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Barb in Maryland wrote: "Here's another cover fail---
This is the cover of the first edition I read way back in 1969:


Hugo is not only unknown, he's almost inv..."

Could it be that the perspective was intended to put Hugo in the far distance, someone whom Anthea is completely unaware of at the moment but who will become a major part of her life?

[MaryC]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:


Mod
Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:


I have read the first 6 chapters, and I'm really liking it for now! I like both Hugo and Anthea, and even when her family would be a really annoying company in real life, they're a fun bunch to read about.

- The summary kinda reminded me to Downton abbey, with the new heir from a lower social class Critterbee❇ wrote: "Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:

Yes, the situation at the beginning of Downton Abbey is almost identical to that in TUA! Then DA (Season I, at least, which is all I've seen) develops along the lines of two other books that are probably favorites of most of us. First, the holder of an entailed property finds himself with only daughters and the possibility that one of them will marry the distantly related heir. Then, change of time (about midway between the other two) and country, and the daughters number only three. Of them, the eldest is a coquettish, rather self-centered brunette beauty; the second is a relatively unattractive blonde who envies and resents her older sister; and the youngest resembles the oldest in looks but is kind and caring.

[Barb in Maryland]

MaryC wrote: "Could it be that the perspective was intended to put Hugo in the far distance, someone whom Anthea is completely unaware of at the moment but who will become a major part of her life?"

Well, that's a charitable way of looking at it...

Ace's cover strategy in the 1950's and '60s, was pastel color palate, female figure front and center. The results ranged from 'eh, okay' Venetia

through the 'what were they thinking' Sylvester

to the 'we aren't even trying' of that awful 'Unknown Ajax' cover.

[Jenny]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:


... - I'm surprised to see that Hugo is already "half-engaged" to another woman. ."

Oh, but do you really believe him?! I thought it was an obvious fabrication.

[Rosina]

MaryC wrote: "Hugo also reminds me of Dorothy Dunnett's Niccolo, although Hugo is not the manipulator that Niccolo is."

Hugo would also step in much earlier to prevent his family being picked off one by one by his henchman. I really disliked Niccolo by the end of Gemini

[MaryC]

Yes, probably, Rosina, but Hugo is a product of a much more civilized time. If Ajax were set in the fifteenth century, Vincent might be trying to kill him. (I haven't yet finished Gemini--maybe about one fourth of the way through.)

[MaryC]

Jenny wrote: "Critterbee❇ wrote: "Posted by Carolina & moved from the Chapters 1 - 10 thread:


... - I'm surprised to see that Hugo is already "half-engaged" to another woman. ."

Oh, but do you really believe ..."

I agree, Jenny. The girl's name and Hugo's description of her sound as if he's playing on stereotypes--and make me think of John Brody and Matilda in Nicholas Nickleby.

[Jan]

I finished my read but this time (potential unpopular opinion alert) I was a little dissatisfied by the big scene at the end. I felt it was a little too drawn out, and there was too much retelling in Richmond's hesitant, pained voice. Too many things seemed to be happening at once. Then the final moment between Hugo and Anthea is so unsatisfyingly brief. I guess I just wanted a glimpse of a little more between our lovers than just, The End.

[Barb in Maryland]

Jan wrote: "I finished my read but this time (potential unpopular opinion alert) I was a little dissatisfied by the big scene at the end. I felt it was a little too drawn out, and there was too much retelling ..."

Jan, I totally share your opinion that the final scene just drags on and on. It is why I don't rate the book as high as some of my fellow GH fans--even though I dearly love Hugo.

[Susan in NC]

No, I actually agree, also - I’ve always felt it would be better on film, so the audiobook helped, moved things along at a snappier pace, so my overall rating is a five, for balance of adventure, romance and comedy/mystery, if you will! But I would’ve liked to see a bit more of our lovers, I just don’t know what she could have written that wouldn’t seem anti-climactic...

[Critterbee❇]

The ending is a bit long, although I still love the book.

[Abigail]

I like the long ending because of the suspense (at least on the first reading).

[Karlyne]

The long ending gives all of the secondary characters a chance to shine, especially Claud
(his realistic shriek when Hugo sticks him with the pin! 🤣) and Lady Aurelia who has always appreciated Hugo except for his "tendency to levity". She was obviously the only one who was never taken in by Hugo, and by the end of the book, I found her refreshingly austere!

[Jan]

"The long ending gives all of the secondary characters a chance to shine,"

I agree, Karlyne. That is a valid point.

But Barb and Critterbee, it's good to hear I'm not alone in thinking the ending drags a bit. Overall it doesn't spoil my enjoyment though. I still really like the book, although it's not one of my top fav Heyers. (And I love Hugo too!)

[Ah]

I love the fact that the characters undercut stereotypes - the dashing Vincent is petty and spiteful, the adventurous Richmond has no judgement and needs to be rescued, while the apparently non-self-aware Aurelia sees through everything!

[Susan in NC]

Karlyne wrote: "The long ending gives all of the secondary characters a chance to shine, especially Claud
(his realistic shriek when Hugo sticks him with the pin! 🤣) and Lady Aurelia who has always appreciated Hu..."

Yes - I hadn’t thought of it like that, but it really does let other characters shine - those you mentioned, plus we start to see the “rehabilitation of Vincent”! He didn’t believe Hugo, knows he was wrong, now he’s redeeming himself by going along, no questions asked or snarky comments offered, to save the family. I love Lady Aurelia’s grand entrance at the end, always appreciated it in reading, but the audiobook puts it over the top! I really wish they’d film this one, it would be brilliant!

[Critterbee❇]

I love the “rehabilitation of Vincent” - he will always be a bit snarky, but has a bit more responsibility. Would love for him to have a book, in which he meets his match in a love-match!

[Karlyne]

Ah, "undercutting stereotypes" is a great way to put it!

[Abigail]

Very true, Ah, and even the hero runs against stereotype, with his bovine appearance and guileless blue eyes!

[Karlyne]

Abigail wrote: "Very true, Ah, and even the hero runs against stereotype, with his bovine appearance and guileless blue eyes!"

I love cows...

[Susan in NC]

Ah wrote: "I love the fact that the characters undercut stereotypes - the dashing Vincent is petty and spiteful, the adventurous Richmond has no judgement and needs to be rescued, while the apparently non-sel..."

Very true, great poInt!

[Abigail]

Me too, Karlyne, though I love goats even more (don't tell Hugo).

[Cindy]

The last scene is long but it does an excellent job of building suspense (the first time you read it, anyway, as Abigail noted) because there are so many ways it can go wrong, and it does an excellent job of allowing each member of the family to contribute to the deception. This deception, though deplorable from a legal standpoint, is the first time they have stood united in a very long time, since long before the advent of Hugo.

I love Lady Aurelia's unshakeable imperturbability! One of my favorite paragraphs in the book is:

She then turned, and looked round the room, with all the lofty contempt natural to the descendant of eleven Earls, all of whom, if not otherwise distinguished, had been remarkable for the high-handed and very successful way with which they had dealt with inferior persons, and overridden all opposition to their domestic decrees. No one saw these august personages range themselves at Lady Aurelia's back, but (as her appreciative elder son afterwards asserted) no one could doubt that they had all of them hurried to the support of so worthy a daughter, (328).

I loved that she ended up being the clincher to the scene! She stepped in and brought it home! :)