The Unknown Ajax July 2019 Group Read Chapters 11-21

[Critterbee❇]

At the halfway point, how are you finding the book? For re-readers, is it as good as you remember?

Please remember to use spoiler tags or to post in the spoiler thread to avoid spoiling anyone's first time, or first-in-a-long-time, read.

[Margaret]

It is still one of my favourites in spite of the fact that the plot revolves mostly around the male characters. I think that Anthea is the romantic interest and foil for the Major but her character is less developed than most of G H's other heroines.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I think it is because I know this book so well, but this time I was a bit impatient with the (necessary) scene setting. I just couldn't wait till the story really gets going!

I had never noticed the word jacky before (drunk by a couple of minor characters) According to Merriam-Webster that is a British term for gin.

[MaryC]

Years ago, my husband asked me, "Does Georgette Heyer have any outstanding heroes?" and I sighed and said, "Hugo Darracott Much more recently, we audioread TUA on Talking Book, and he agreed. So, Margaret, if for once the heroine of a GH novel is a bit underdeveloped (literarily, I mean), the hero more than makes up for it!

[Moloch]

I'm approaching the end (chapter 17) and I'll be making some comments when I have time; so far I like it but I had hoped it would be funnier.
My favorite character is Claud: everyone thinks him foolish, and yet he unexpectedly comes up with more good sense than the rest of his family and he's usually right about many things (never believed for a moment in the ghost, saw that Hugo and Anthea were falling in love).

[Abigail]

He is kind of a Wise Fool character, isn't he?

[Abigail]

How I love the kinda-sorta-almost proposal in chapter 13! They know each other so well, and have so much trust in each other, and love to laugh together. My kind of romance!

[Rebecca]

I can't remember when I've had so much fun with a book! Hugo is delightful, and although Anthea may be "underdeveloped" in comparison with many Heyer heroines, one nevertheless gets a very good sense of who she is, and how intelligent and determined she is.

My favorite scene may well be the scene with the Riding Officer, where Claude finally shines! With a little help from Hugo...(how's that for not giving anything away?)

I've moved "The Unknown Ajax" up into my Top Favorite Heyer Books list, and I assure you, it will not be 40 years before I read it again!

[Rosina]

Rebecca wrote: "I can't remember when I've had so much fun with a book! Hugo is delightful, and although Anthea may be "underdeveloped" in comparison with many Heyer heroines, one nevertheless gets a very good sen..."

My thought is that Anthea has always been second fiddle to her brother, with his feigned ill-health and his doting grandfather. She can't really rebel because a) there's nowhere for her to run away to, and b) it rebounds on her mother. When Hugo arrives and she starts to trust him she can expand, in humour and good sense. We don't see her fully bloom, but I am sure that Hugo will let her do so.

[Abigail]

Maybe she’ll come into her own by battling the ghost at the Dower House! Or is that a different genre of fiction altogether?

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Rosina wrote: "My thought is that Anthea has always been second fiddle to her brother, with his feigned ill-health and his doting grandfather. She can't really rebel because a) there's nowhere for her to run away to, and b) it rebounds on her mother. When Hugo arrives and she starts to trust him she can expand, in humour and good sense. We don't see her fully bloom, but I am sure that Hugo will let her do so. "

So true! I think we see enough of Anthea's character to see that she is feisty & has a sense of humour.

I don't know if originally Richmond did feign ill health (view spoiler)[ I think his grandfather (selfishly) didn't want to part with him & & used Richmond's childhood frailty against him. As an adult Richmond used the weapons he had to get his own way (hide spoiler)]

[Rosina]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Rosina wrote: "My thought is that Anthea has always been second fiddle to her brother, with his feigned ill-health and his doting grandfather. She can't really rebel because a) there's nowhere for ..."

I don't think that as a baby he was necessarily feigning - although babies can learn how to get mama's attention ... But real or pretend, I am sure Mrs Darracott spent more time looking after and worrying about Richmond, and left Anthea - healthy and happy - to get on with life.

Has anyone else read Lois McMaster Bujold's The Warrior's Apprentice which quite openly ... pays homage to the scene with the young Richmond and the horse?

[Jackie]

no, but tell us about it! how in the world does the author fit in a scene from a Heyer book?!

[Susan in NC]

Rebecca wrote: "I can't remember when I've had so much fun with a book! Hugo is delightful, and although Anthea may be "underdeveloped" in comparison with many Heyer heroines, one nevertheless gets a very good sen..."

Same here! With this read, my fourth or fifth, I did the audiobook, and that moved this top ten favorite up to a top five for me, it was so fun. I kept thinking what a great film it would make! I don’t know who would make a good Hugo though, I’m not hip on the current crop of British young male actors- any big, rather bovine ones who could do justice to Hugo? But they have to have (or be able to portray) warmth and self-deprecating humor.

[Critterbee❇]

I thought that scene was at the end of Barrayar, an earlier book in the Vorkosigan series by Bujold, and was then referenced in later book(s)?

It did remind me so much of the Richmond riding on the hunter when he was a tiny child.

Possible Barrayar spoiler:
(view spoiler)[In a nutshell: Miles, while a young child, sneaks into the horse barn and rides one of his grumpy Grandfather's huge, spirited horses out. This causes crusty Lord Vorkosigan to change his negative feelings towards Miles, and to admire 'sickly' Miles' fearless nature. (hide spoiler)]

[Abigail]

The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James...

[Rosina]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "I thought that scene was at the end of Barrayar, an earlier book in the Vorkosigan series by Bujold, and was then referenced in later book(s)?

It did remind me so much of the Richmon..."

The Warrior's Apprentice was written and published before Barrayar, so the scene's first appearance was in TWA. And Bujold, who admired Heyer, did include the scene deliberately. There is a similar 'echo' at the end of Shards of Honour, with Cordelia's arrival at Vorkosigan's home, after everyone has tried to convince her that she doesn't really love him. He is drunk, however - again an acknowledged echo of the end of Venetia. (This I remember on a discussion board many years ago, in which Bujold participated.)

[Critterbee❇]

Ah! I am reading in the author's suggested reading order, following the time chronologically instead of publication-wise, and so encountered the scene as it happened in Barrayar first, rather than in later flashbacks. It is a great series, and I have only just begun (five titles in!)

The group read of Georgette Heyer: A Critical Retrospective might unearth even more connections between Heyer and the writers influenced by her.

But back to Ajax, I believe Richmond was pretty good at influencing those around him.

[Moloch]

I have just finished, and to tell you the truth I am a bit disappointed. Nothing much happens in all the book, and since much of the humor is for Hugo's way of talking, pretty much all of it went lost for me.

I did appreciate all the male characters, I've already said I liked Claud and I can say that Vincent also is so well portrayed. I don't have much to say about the female characters, that don't stand out much, except for Lady Aurelia: I didn't like Anthea for getting angry at Hugo for being... richer than she thought. Ok, maybe true to the time mentality, but still.

I liked a lot the little bits about the servants and the valets.

I don't know why but I was convinced this one was full of twists and turns and with a rich plot like "The Foundling", so this may be why I am a little dismayed.

[Margaret]

Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

I agree James Norton is lovely, but he's not big enough to be Hugo. Mind you, it's going to be difficult to find a lead actor who's six-foot-four, because men that big don't normally get cast as leads in the first place.

[Sandy]

Margaret wrote: "Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

I agree James Norton is lovely, but he's not big enough to b..."

Fill in the rest of the cast with short people,

[Maith]

Rosina wrote: "Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Rosina wrote: "My thought is that Anthea has always been second fiddle to her brother, with his feigned ill-health and his doting grandfather. She can't really rebel ..."

Yup! Major Bujold Fan here - and she dedicated a whole book to Heyer (A Civil Campaign) and has said that The Unknown Ajax is one of her favorite Heyers :)

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

There we go!

[Susan in NC]

Margaret wrote: "Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

I agree James Norton is lovely, but he's not big enough to b..."
Good point - I was thinking Liam Neeson for the height, and he can be funny, but the age is wrong.

[Susan in NC]

Sandy wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

I agree James Norton is lovely, but he's no..."
Lol!

[Jackie]

Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

There we go!"

he IS good looking :D

[Carolina]

Hello! I went to a trip so I had to stop reading, but I'm back with the book. Just finished chapter 13.

So these are my impressions:
(view spoiler)[ I feel like the book's rhythm is too slow, basically nothing happens. I like the arguments between Hugo, Vincent and Claud but the book focuses too much on these fashion disagreements instead of the love story.

I like that Hugo has such a good sense of humor and he lies to get away with whatever he has in mind, for example his inexistent fiance.

The almost engagement proposal at the end of chapter 13 was quite funny, but it does feel premature because there isn't much development in the romantic subplot - and Hugo is suddenly in love with Anthea because she smiled at him? I don't know, I would've liked it to be more slowburn but at the same with more plot to bring conflict to the couple.

I feel like "bickering couples" have an advantage here, because the moment they start shouting at each other, it seems like there's some repressed attraction between them, but when that's not the case and they get along, the readers need other clues about the characters' feelings.

I love the ghost stories, though :)

(hide spoiler)]

[Carolina]

Jackie wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

There we go!"

he IS good looking :D"

Indeed, he is!!!

When I read the book, I imagine someone like Adrian Grenier from Entourage playing Hugo... but bigger, with wider shoulders. I don't remember what kind of haircolor Hugo is supposed to have, but I rememember the book described him as having a tan skin, blue eyes, and curly hair... so that why I picture Adrian Grenier.

[Abigail]

Carolina, I'm surprised that you think the love came out of nowhere. I felt that every scene between the two of them showed some advance in their attraction and mutual understanding. He teases her, she sees through his teasing (except in their first conversation), and she accepts the attraction he's hiding behind his jokes by not telling him to stop. She protests when he calls her "lass" or "love," but then lets him keep doing it. She's happier in his company than in anyone else's. Heyer is usually subtle in presenting the attachment of her more mature couples; it's more a meeting of minds than physical passion. That's what I most enjoy about her romances, because for me, love is a cleaving of mind to mind.

[Susan in NC]

Carolina wrote: "Jackie wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "The lead actor in Grantchester would make a pretty lovely Hugo.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James..."

There we go!"

he IS good..."

Good one, thanks, Carolina! I had to google that actor, I wasn’t familiar with him, so I learned something today.😆

[Carolina]

Abigail wrote: "Carolina, I'm surprised that you think the love came out of nowhere. I felt that every scene between the two of them showed some advance in their attraction and mutual understanding. He teases her,..."

It's not that I think their love comes out of nowhere. You're right about those conversations - I loved every one of them! Specially what you said about Hugo calling her "love"- I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hoped we had more of those conversations in which they're subtly flirtring or that we could see their growing attraction through other situations besides Anthea showing him around. Also, sometimes it feels like Hugo has more "screentime" with Vincent, Claud and Richmond than Anthea.

But I'm enjoying the book, I am just always anxious to get to a scene about Hugo and Anthea.

[Abigail]

That makes sense—sorry I misunderstood what you were saying!

[Critterbee❇]

I loved the conversation that they had while riding with Richmond to see Rye.

[Jackie]

Hugo does have more screen time: this is his story, no doubt.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Carolina wrote: " I don't remember what kind of haircolor Hugo is supposed to have"

Hugo is a blonde. Ian Ziering (circa Beverley Hills 90210) has the right face for me, but I imagine he is way too small.

https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/41306521...

[Critterbee❇]

What about Chris Helmsworth? He is only 6'3" - but with heels and short co stars, he would really tower over everyone!



Also, hair can always be colored, although natural blondes do seem to have their own coloring, so it might not work for everyone to look natural.

Oh, or this guy - Eric Christian Olsen. I don't really know him, but he seems to be able to portray the genial, bovine act that Hugo puts on.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Is Hugo's actual height mentioned? I imagine he was "only"around 6ft 3". I think he would be perfect!

That other guy Olsen - I don't know about Hugo but he is really cute!

*disappears to do some research*

[Susan in NC]

Oh, perfect - I don’t know how tall the Olsen guy is, but Hemsworth would be perfect - size, looks, humor, warm personality.

[Abigail]

Some tasty options there! I seem to remember that Hugo is six foot four without his boots, and scaled to match.

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "Some tasty options there! I seem to remember that Hugo is six foot four without his boots, and scaled to match."

Sounds like Hemsworth, I think he’s a big guy.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I have an off the wall idea here.

Don't ask me why they were in Wellington, but some of the Canterbury All Blacks were in the gym my daughter patronises - including the Captain Keiran Reid. He is 1.94m which is roughly 6ft 4in. Engaging personality with a great smile.

As far as acting goes - he's done toothpaste (& other) ads - does that count?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport...

[Abigail]

I can see him in the role.

[Karlyne]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I have an off the wall idea here.

Don't ask me why they were in Wellington, but some of the Canterbury All Blacks were in the gym my daughter patronises - including the Captain Keiran Reid. He is ..."

Looks perfect to me. Call him quick!

[Critterbee❇]

That's Hugo! That is my mind's image of Hugo!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

The accent would sure need work - but maybe not being able to understand the Kiwi accent could substitute for the Yorkshire?😂

Needless to say,can't get any sense out of my daughter at all!

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "I can see him in the role."

Absolutely- great smile, looks like he’d have a sense of humor!

[Susan in NC]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "The accent would sure need work - but maybe not being able to understand the Kiwi accent could substitute for the Yorkshire?😂

Needless to say,can't get any sense out of my daughter at all!"

🤣

[Jan]

Ha ha ha. Loving all the eye candy. So far my fav for Hugo would be James Norton, if only he were tall enough.

[Jackie]

he's adorable, he'd make a good Hugo!

[Barb in Maryland]

Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "I can see him in the role."

Absolutely- great smile, looks like he’d have a sense of humor!"

Now there's a fine figure of a man. Carol, no wonder your daughter was rendered speechless! Nice smile, too. He either has a great mouth guard or a comprehensive dental plan. So many Rugby players (and ice hockey players!) seem to suffer dental mishaps, shall we say...