SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
Group Reads Discussions 2019
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"The Once And Future King" First Impressions *No Spoilers*
I read this a year ago and just loved it. The mix of humor and melancholy, the reflection on how childhood lingers, the playing with time, the ways it reflects the time of its writing (WWII). I'm really looking forward to hearing people's thoughts.
I read it (listen to it) slowly for the second time. This time I know what I can await. The first time the silliness irked me a lot.
The beginning seems familiar (the MC's situation vs someone else) but I like the humor.
I didn’t know what to expect going into this. It’s a book I’ve heard about my entire life and just never picked up, thinking it was a serious, historical recounting of the Arthurian legend (which did not appeal to me). I was pleasantly surprised by the dry humor and light-heartedness. It totally sucked me right away. I did have a question: the audiobook version I’m listening to has the second part as “The Witch in the Wood”, but when I look at the list of books in the omnibus, it lists “The Queen of Air and Darkness.” Are these completely separate versions?
Mod
I listened to the audiobook recently, and while a few minor things might be different, all of the major plot points and significant prose seems to be identical. It appears that Sword in the Stone (and Book of Merlyn) were the only two "books" impacted by the condensation into the omnibus. Other than that it was mostly incidentals that seem to be missing. I have no idea why he renamed it when he consolidated the book into one!
Thanks Allison! Good to know I’m not missing anything major. I’ll definitely go back and read the chapters you noted that are different in Sword.
I'm not very far in but I'm really enjoying it so far.I've started reading this only previously seeing the Disney film so my expectations were somewhat open minded.
I've loved the story so far and the detail that is in the book. Some of the language I'm not so keen on however but I guess it's due to when it was written.
I read the first book, The Sword in the Stone. The bildungsroman is a wonderfully original version of Arthur’s—or, should I say Wart’s—education—or, as Sir Ector says, eddication. The characters are fun, the plot adventurous. The explanation of Merlyn’s eccentricity and insight is brilliant. I enjoyed how the development of character was tied to the relationship of human nature and the natural world. Wart’s family life was often humorous and seemed always real.
I named a cat Wart after this book. This book well do well in the Time Traveler Challenge as the individual books are from 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1958
Mod
I have read this book several times and it remains one of my two favorite versions of the Arthurian legend (the other being The Mists of Avalon. ). But it has been years since I last read it. I own the audio book so I think I will listen to it this time around.
Had a crush on King Arthur as a child (which included wanting to be Arthur...) and I've been meaning to read this book for ages, dunno why I never got around to it, life is too distracting. Finally started last night and the style is completely not what I expected- tbh I expected it to be boring like some childhood classics I've tried to revisit in English for the first time- I'm enjoying it a lot, and ready for an adventure :)
CBRetriever wrote: "I named a cat Wart after this book. This book well do well in the Time Traveler Challenge as the individual books are from 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1958"wait, I thought you told us we could count individual books within a collection or compilation or omnibus? They were published as separate books:
The Sword in the Stone
The Queen of Air and Darkness
The Ill-Made Knight
The Candle in the Wind
The Kindle Version of The Once and Future King definitely includes 4 separate books as near as I can tell. I've read The Sword in the Stone but I've never read the other three.
Mod
I’m seriously thinking of reading this. I have it on my iPad and found the audiobook earlier today. I might have to listen to it though. I have an eye infection this week and is seriously hindering my reading. I’ve always loved King Arthur and Merlin. One of my favs was always Mary Stewart’s series starting with The Crystal Cave. And I’ve always wanted to call my house/farm Avalon. A favourite movie was Excalibur.
I’m only two chapters in but I’m finding it utterly delightful. I had no idea it would display silliness in its pages; I guess I assumed it would be Stately or something. But then again, I shouldn’t be surprised by its wit, since Allison clearly appreciates wit and she loves this book so much. I’m very glad to be reading it.
Mod
But I should also say, I've resolved myself to the fact that not all of you will, so you can say "this is too silly" and you won't hurt my feelings or incur my modly wrath, I promise!
I personally love how White takes small, simple things, and infuses it with enough personality that in the space of a joke, or one sentence of description we can get to know so much about our characters, the world and White's viewpoint.
This is my first time reading this and I'm really enjoying it so far. The Arthur mythology is why I fell in love with fantasy at a young age. It is nice to revisit Arthur now as an adult.I feel the playful tone matches the characters and situations. I'm curious if the tone becomes more serious as Wart matures.
I'm enjoying this, but I think I would be enjoying it even more if I had read it as a kid. I actually like my King Arthur a little more serious (a la Mary Stewart or Nikolai Tolstoy), so this was an adjustment.That said, I'm a sucker for this kind of dry humour and I appreciate the jabs hidden behind the silliness.
Alexis wrote: "I'm enjoying this, but I think I would be enjoying it even more if I had read it as a kid. I actually like my King Arthur a little more serious (a la Mary Stewart or Nikolai Tolstoy), so this was a..."It gets more serious once Wart grows up. There is always some humor to it but it becomes more of an adult novel eventually.
Mod
Perhaps, in addition to Arthur’s increasing maturity, the narrative of The Once and Future King becomes more serious because of historical events that altered people’s world view. The Sword and the Stone was published in 1938, a year before the beginning of World War II and The Queen of Air and Darkness was published in 1939, the year the war began—on September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. The Ill-Made Knight was published in 1940, during WWII and The Candle in the Wind was published, in the omnibus, in 1958, thirteen years after the war ended.
Excellent point. That never occurred to me.
Don wrote: "Perhaps, in addition to Arthur’s increasing maturity, the narrative of The Once and Future King becomes more serious because of historical events that altered people’s world view. The Sword and the..."This merging of eras within White's take on historical fiction was one of my favorite parts of the novel...
Some further interesting tidbits from White's wikipedia entry:
In February 1939, White moved to Doolistown in County Meath, Ireland, where he lived out the Second World War as a de facto conscientious objector. In Ireland, he wrote most of what would later become The Once and Future King; two sequels to The Sword in the Stone were published during this time: The Witch in the Wood (later cut and rewritten as The Queen of Air and Darkness) in 1939, and The Ill-Made Knight in 1940. The version of The Sword in the Stone included in The Once and Future King differs in several respects from the earlier version. It is darker, and some critics prefer the earlier version. The war had a profound effect on these tales of King Arthur, which include commentaries on war and human nature in the form of a heroic narrative.
Mod
There's so much in this book that alters as the world and White did. It's sort of a meta-bildungsroman.
Allison wrote: "Listening to Candle in the Wind and feeling myself fall all to pieces again. It's like one long scream, a hurt kid yelling "why?" at a world that they don't understand but know is not fair."Oh my, yes to all of this. I’m halfway through and this perfectly sums up my feelings.
Having read The Sword in the Stone (1938) and reading The Queen of Air and Darkness (1939), I’m startled by the contrast already glaring between the first two books. In the former, humor is used mostly humanize characters, in the later it is used increasingly to cope with unexpected violence and proposed aggression; consequently, the humor becomes darker.I'm enjoying the current reading of The Once and Future King even more than I expected, not only because I'm building a new understanding of the cumulative work based on past readings of the composite volumes of the omnibus and other Arthurian texts, but also because of the richness of perspectives that a collaborative reading experience provides.
I'm a philistine ^^'. Again I'm spacing out all the time while listening to it. I find it so hard to concentrate on the stories.
Mod
Don, I'm so glad this is adding to your experience :)
I just loved this book when I read it so much that I don't dare open it again for fear it will disappoint. I can't say all that I loved about it before we can share spoilers, but it is my favourite Arthur and Merlin novel.
Mod
Continuing to read The Queen of Air and Darkness, I’m delighted, despite the cynicism prompted by WWII, the narrative continues to entertain and promote the humor of human folly as the means of self awareness.
Don wrote: "Continuing to read The Queen of Air and Darkness, I’m delighted, despite the cynicism prompted by WWII, the narrative continues to entertain and promote the humor of human folly as the means of sel..."Agreed! That's definitely the book's strongest suit.
I read this earlier this year, but I thought I would chime in here too. My knowledge of Arthur and company is mostly from "Camelot" and other stories set during his adult years. So, the first section was really a new experience for me, with the lessons from Merlin and growing up in the castle.
Currently reading the third installment, The Ill-Made Knight (1940), published during WWII. What started as a nostalgic look back to simpler times has become a new, occasionally terrifying vision of medieval society—as Yeats proclaimed, “all things run / On that unfashionable gyre again.” From celebrating the magic and wonder of a more imaginative epoch, the saga moves toward darker aspects of earlier times, including vicious tribal feuding and rampant decapitations. Something has changed in the modern era—meaning the novels’ twentieth-century social and political context.
I love this book. It's a wonderfully humanistic retelling of the Arthurian legend. I actually didn't realize that it had anything to do with the Disney movie, which I had loved as a kid, until I was well into the book. I probably would have read it sooner if I'd known.
The Disney movie is based on this book?!I thought the Bermuda thing and Archimedes were familiar 😅
it's based on the first book if i remember correctly
I’ve been wanting to read this one for a while! Once I finish a few I’m reading now I’ll jump on board.
Mod
Mod
First impression is that this book is far more YA than I remembered.
CBRetriever, I think The Once and Future King is one of those unique classics that has appeal for all ages. I enjoy reading it as much at 58 as I did as a teenager. The reading experience is different because I’m different—I’ve lived and read more—and the world is different—culturally, politically, socially, spiritually—but for me at least it’s as rewarding a read as ever.
this is my second time through too
So I'm in Chapter 9 of the first book (page 89, 13% of the total) and I'm struggling. I can see why some like it, but for me the descriptions are laid on too thick and there's too little happening. The magic isn't very interesting. The jokes are occasionally funny but so far it hasn't been worth slogging through.Does the book get better? Should I stick with it? Or does the tone in the beginning remain much the same, and I'm better off abandoning it now?
Mod
Each book’s tone is increasingly more somber. There are bits of silliness after book one, but they are rarer and rarer as it continues.
Indeed. I too found part one to be exceedingly goofy, but it gets much more obviously profound towards the end.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
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The Sword in the Stone (other topics)
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Is it what you thought it would be?
Please leave all specifics regarding plot points, character growth/actions, or other details for the spoiler thread open on the 7th.
A few content warnings outside of the standard Arthurian stuff: (view spoiler)[In Witch In The Wood/Queen of Air and Darkness, there are graphic depictions of animal torture and child abuse. Child abuse, casual misogyny and the one time use of the n-word do occur throughout other books. (hide spoiler)]
A further note--if you are listening to the audiobooks, they are not quite the same as the print omnibus. I heartily recommend reading at least Sword in the Stone with your eyes, or at least chapters 13-18, which contain scenes not found in the audio version. The rest of the audiobooks should be fairly similar to the print text.
Book of Merlyn is not required as it is not part of the omnibus.