I've created a poll!

[Beth-In-UK]

Speaking of fashion, and Lucy Worsley dressing up, TV is crying out for a really good History of Fashion series...

I would love to see the 'inside' of clothes....how they were made, and how they did up, etc, and what the underwear was like.

There was a short series a while back in the UK by someone who was a fashion historian (v stylish in a strange kind of way!), who had various 'seamstresses' (not sure what the slightly posher word would be?) in a little studio make various items of clothing seen in historical portraits. I remember she did a coat, I think, of Charles II, and then Dido Belle's informal frock and then the 'milkmaid' gown of Marie Antoinette.

They were fascinating programmes, and really showed how those garments were constructed physically, and how they were worn, and also the implications of the social history they contained (eg, why MA dressed as a milkmaid, etc)

I hope they do another series, though it was a bit specialised maybe for mass popularity.

[Doris]

Beth-In-UK wrote: "Speaking of fashion, and Lucy Worsley dressing up, TV is crying out for a really good History of Fashion series..."

Future Learn has a MOOC on the History of Royal Fashion: https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/r... The focus is more narrow than you're hoping for, but I enjoyed it.

[Beth-In-UK]

Thank you! I'll take a look. :)

[Jenny]

Beth-In-UK wrote: "...I've read that the 'boy-ish fashion' style of the twenties was as a kind of pitiful consolation for the loss of all the husbands those women would never have, slaughtered in the Great War..."

I don't think that can be right - lines were straightening and skirts were shortening even before the war.

Just as the slim silhouettes of the Regency were a reaction to the exaggeratedly curvy looks of the C18th, followed in their turn by a reaction back to nipped-in waists and wide skirts of the Victorians and the Edwardian S-bend with vast bosoms and bustles, the straight lines and hobble skirts of the 1910s were a reaction against those.
I see the even shorter hair and skirts of the 20s - along with brazenly-worn make-up and smoking - as acts of liberation and defiance among young women, many of whom were doing 'men's work' during the war and who were not going to go back to the constraints of being ladylike.
I remember seeing an old cartoon of the time, showing a shocked elderly Edwardian lady sitting bolt upright among a group of 'bright young things' who were made-up to the nines, waving cigarette holders and draped any old how over the surrounding furniture, displaying yards of leg and laughing themselves into stitches. The caption was "Oh, Auntie, do go on telling us about deportment!"

[Jenny]

Beth-In-UK wrote: "I would love to see the 'inside' of clothes....how they were made, and how they did up, etc, and what the underwear was like.."

There's an excellent series on YouTube! eg this one

[Beth-In-UK]

Jenny, I've finally made that link you provided - what a find! Thank you so much. I can see it's going to be addictive, so have restricted myself so far only to the Georgian and Regency clips.

My biggest issue, and I suspect it's one a lot of modern women share, is the 'bra' issue!!! I would have loathed stays that simply 'squashed me' rather than 'lifted me'. That 'early bra' though in the Regency clip was intriguing, and I think would have suited me best.

The big problem, of course, in Regency styles, is that you HAD to be slim (well, true of all eras really), but a fat woman would have found it really, really horrid to wear such narrow clothes.

[Susan in NC]

Beth-In-UK wrote: "Jenny, I've finally made that link you provided - what a find! Thank you so much. I can see it's going to be addictive, so have restricted myself so far only to the Georgian and Regency clips.

My ..."

Yes! Reminds me of how the sleeveless, long, tubelike white sheath wedding dress was so popular forever here (May still be, I don’t know, I don’t really know any young women looking for wedding dresses, haven’t been to any weddings). For years, in the newspaper and clips of celebrity weddings, every bride was poured into this second skin of white tubing, whether she had the figure for it or not - some of them with big, broad shoulders and backs and arms, and I felt so bad that rather than blindly following the fashion, they didn’t look for a flattering dress that might work with their figure! I think in 10-20 years time, they will look back at their photos and cringe...

[Beth-In-UK]

I suspect brides have 'distorted vision' so to speak, and genuinely see their reflections in rose tint! Well, why not?!

A friend of mine married in the 1980s and very cleverly chose a boned dress - I think Fergie (Prince Andrew's wife) had made them popular again. It gave her a fabulous figure!

Only thing, she married in January, and told me she was wearing thermal undies!!!! (We don't heat churches much in this country!!!!!)

The whole 'fat' thing is tricky -I can't look at the Rubenesque paintings, or anything of that era, as they just look SOOOO well, 'much'!! I think that's why the Botticelli paintings like Primavera are so appealing to us now, because the females are all delightfuly slim. But it's very contingent on what society approves of in any particular era.

I seem to remember that the Victorians really praised 'sloping shoulders' which to us could look a bit like bad posture!

[Susan in NC]

“Distorted vision” - good point!

[Beth-In-UK]

Well, I feel if there is any time in one's life when one is entitled to rose tinted glasses to distort your vision (and slim your figure!) then it has to be your wedding day!!!! :)

And, truth be told, I think it is the bride's happiness that makes her radiant....and therefore beautiful.

But then I'm someone who has never yet not cried at a wedding!!!! Gets me, every time. :) (And, hey, why not - hopefully it means the start of a happy, happy marriage and life together.) (And even if not, they hope it will be so, and that has to be something to celebrate.)

That said, 'bridezillas' are a total pain!

[Beth-In-UK]

I suspect Tiffany will be a bridezilla.............!!!!!

[Susan in NC]

Beth-In-UK wrote: "Well, I feel if there is any time in one's life when one is entitled to rose tinted glasses to distort your vision (and slim your figure!) then it has to be your wedding day!!!! :)

And, truth be t..."

Yes, and Tiffany as Bridezilla - absolutely!

[Beth-In-UK]

Imagine what her bridesmaids will have to put up with! Nightmare!

[Margaret]

I suspect their historical period will save them some angst. A lot of the wedding customs normally weaponized by bridezillas date from the Victorian period or later.

[Beth-In-UK]

'Weaponized' - ha ha, says it all about bridezillas! This isn't about showing off, it's about WAR!!!!!! :) :) :)

Speaking of historical weddings, dear Lucy Worsley a while back (which was repeated quite recently) did a v. good programme on Queen Vic's wedding. Yup, she dressed up as Queen Vic (how could she resist?!), but it was for all that v. informative about how the wedding was organised, the gowns, the uniforms, the guest list, the wedding breakfast etc etc. Worth watching if anyone gets the chance.