On the Hugo fan related categories

[Silvana]

Just in case anyone has not noticed, there is a new, well another, Twitter discourse caused by an essay about how John Scalzi broke the fan related Hugo nominees.

The rant on Scalzi was amusing (though some parts of the essay clearly not) but I could not help but thinking about the fan categories themselves. What constitutes a fan? Should pro authors or artists not apply to this category?

Some summary of the whole thing:
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.c...

I liked it when he said that we need to think instead of "what kinds of things the fan categories SHOULD reward and think about how FUNCTIONALLY they can be defined in our new more inter-connected world."

Thoughts?

[Antti]

I haven't really paid any attention to the fan categories, nor really understood them.

I guess the distinction between "pro" and "fan writer" was clearer in the pre-Internet days, but today the division is not so clear. If a writer has a well-paying Patreon, are they a "pro" or not? If not, why not? What if a writer is self-published and becomes hugely popular on Amazon? Pro or not?

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Thanks Silvana for the info. Like Antti, I haven't really paid attention to the fan categories. Who done what for a fandom is always a contentious topic among living - it is my easier to acclaim a live-long support of the fandom by a deceased.

fan vs. pro, I'd add that a lot of pro now get a huge proportion of their income via Patreon. Just look at Kameron Hurley - after all, she is H/N nominee no less: https://www.kameronhurley.com/why-do-...

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

i guess I don't know what Patreon is? Is there a link?

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "i guess I don't know what Patreon is? Is there a link?"

It is a site, where you can support an author with money: https://www.patreon.com/

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

thx

[Silvana]

The official definition: :"The Hugo Award for Best Fan Writer is the Hugo Award given each year for writers of works related to science fiction or fantasy which appeared in low- or non-paying publications such as semiprozines or fanzines or in generally available electronic media during the previous calendar year."

If you're a well known author, does it mean you are no longer a fan? and your writing in your non-paid/sponsored blog could not be considered as a fan work?

Have to admit though, that they do have some advantages when it comes to popularity, including with the Worldcon voters.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Thanks, Silvana for the definition. I guess the very approach has to be updated. Up to 1990s there were fanzines and semi-prozines, which were actually printed. With advance of internet the lines become blurry. For example, as you noted, blogs by professional writers or support on Patreon, where some work on per story basis (see here https://www.patreon.com/seananmcguire)

[Silvana]

Yeah... If it were up to me, Patreon posts don't count as fan work.

Speaking of Patreon, long rant here (view spoiler)[ I appreciate authors who give something back like Seanan or Kameron (I was her patron for a year) even for the lowest patronage level, as you really felt the actual benefit and not just supporting them. Unlike Jemisin who just gave you cat pics if you could only contribute 1 buck a month. But there are others who are worse than her too, making Patreon as their gofundme but with no added benefit which don't have to include money but like a Q&A or something. (hide spoiler)]

Sorry for going off on a tangent, let's go back to the Hugo fan categories :D

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

@Silvana, your rant is not thatb long and I guess quite tangent - after all, we as part of the fandom all can have own definitions of
- what is a fan/pro divide ?
- what should be stimulated in the fandom by rewards? As a ridiculous example, should we award Vox Day of Rabid Puppies for the fact that he united the fandom (or its significant part) against him?

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Personally, I never participate in fandom, except a few times on the internet after Firefly was cancelled. When the movie came out I got all excited about the guitar piece at the end, and someone in some browncoat group was kind enough to send me an MP3 so I could figure it out. After I put the guitar tab out on the internet, that was just about the extent of it. I don't know why I'm not interested.

I don't even care to know about the actors or the writers except to keep track of the ones I like so I know when something new is coming out. I don't know why I'm not interested.

I wouldn't even know about the Puppies if you guys hadn't told me. Every summer a friend/acquaintance and his wife have a party where there are a lot of fan people, I guess it must be the great conversations because I have had some at the party.

I really don't understand why people get active in fandom. Do we have active fans here? Maybe you guys can explain it to me.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Speaking of something to be a fan of, though, has anyone seen "Good Omens" on Amazon (not Netflix!) Really good.

[Silvana]

I am active in some of the local fandom communities, and through one of them that I happen to manage, connected to the global fandom for that particular topic. I am not actively involved in any of the global general SFF thing but I try to keep on track on current issues (by following some authors/bloggers at Twitter, listen to podcasts, or active in GR) since I want to be at least aware of the current narrative as books for me are beyond reading and have their own ecosystem.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I do find that I can discover great books here just by being in the community of readers that is Goodreads. Really happy to be here.

[pareidolia]

Kateblue wrote: "Speaking of something to be a fan of, though, has anyone seen "Good Omens" on Amazon (not Netflix!) Really good."

Yes, I really liked it. Very funny, very heart-warming, and Michael Sheen and David Tennant are a joy to watch.

I'm not really active in fandom either. I read the occasional fan-fic and have written a few fics myself. I think the biggest thing I've done was to help some friends set up a Star Trek fan-zine back at school - although I haven't watched a single episode of Trek in my whole life.
I actually try to stay away from fandom and fandom "discourse" and just enjoy the things I like in peace.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Yes, my husband has organized and/or been active in "clubs" for hobbyists, and we have both been in some professional organizations over the years. Often, each of us has found the experience frustrating. Internal "politics," mostly." Whether an organization of hobbyists or of people who are supposed to be professionals, we've sometimes been left with the impression that some people have nothing else in their lives than staying in control of some organization.

Maybe it's good I have never been in fandom. But I have to say all the people in this group are the greatest.

[Ed]

Over on io9 they just had a nice, somewhat long, article on fandom, including discussions of toxic fandom, and the Hugo nomination of "Archive of our own" (AO3).

https://io9.gizmodo.com/when-fandom-i...

AO3 is a place for "fan fiction". Nothing wrong with fan fiction, but I just don't have time for it. There is enough other stuff being produced to keep me busy.

Years ago when dinosaurs roamed the internet, I was active in a fan group for a musical group. I had fun, and I made some real-life fans from that. Even became acquainted with the band members, though that always feels weird to me. I just want to hear their music, not be their friends.

I support two comics writers on Patreon. That went well for a while, but they have both almost completely stopped their updates and I'm thinking of stopping it.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I am glad to hear from all of you that you had some positive life experiences with fandom. If I ever care enough about anything, maybe I will give it a try!

Except I guess just by being here, I am being a fan of good F&SF. But as I have said before, all the people in this group are the greatest.

I bookmarked the fandom page you cited, Ed. No time to read it now as I am really sucked in to Seveneves. It's hard for me to believe it's by the same guy as wrote The Diamond Age: Or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, which, as some of you may recall, I didn't like much at all.