Harry Potter discussion
James Potter
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James and Lily, or Lily and Severus?
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Mary
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Dec 16, 2022 01:40AM
James and lily ❤️
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i was like snape and lily and then i thought-OH HARRY
James and Lily with no doubt. I WOULD say Lily and Severus, but Severus called her a mud blood—NO WAY they deserve to be a couple.
After all this time....
ALWAYS
ALWAYS
James was a bully and Lily sided with snape agenct James and called James an old toe rage so I say Snape
You are all going to hate me, but I feel like both suck. True, Severus Snape sucks far more, what with him being willing to let Voldemort kill James and Harry so long as he spared Lily, and bullying his students, and being a former wizard nazi. That being said, James is still pretty darn stinky. We are not SHOWN that James changed, we are merely told he did by HIS TWO BEST FRIENDS. Are we really supposed to take their highly biased account as a fact? especially when one nearly got a guy killed and still treated it as a silly prank years later? Did he stop being a douche, or did he simply go down on the Douche-o-meter? He still bullied Snape behind Lily's back after all...
Also, are we gonna forget that Lily was holding in a smile while James taunted Snape? like geez, you truly are a good friend Lily, and yes Snape was also pretty darn bad, but two bads don't make one good.
♬✌︎ ʟɪʟʏ ᴏғ ᴀʀᴛᴇᴍɪs ᴄᴀʙɪɴ ✌︎ wrote: "Annette is right, both suck :)"Preach!
Lily and James solely because Harry’s a king and I would prefer if he existed
Honestly, Lily Evans could have done better than both of them.James Potter was a bully who tormented another student 4 on 1 because he just didn't like him. He sexually assaulted said student by pantsing him in public, and that's without considering the rest of the things he did. His pranks were cruel and he was arguably just as obsessed with Lily as Snape was if you look at how much he didn't take no for an answer.
Severus Snape was also a bully with an obsession for Lily Evans. He acted like he owned her because he was her friend first and when she made a choice, he couldn't accept it. He was able to easily call her a mudblood (and even if it slipped out because he was ashamed, the fact he used that word so easily suggests he was already thinking of her that way), and when he was faced with her SON, he chose to bully that son instead of being the bigger person and seeing the child for who he was: a child. Not only that, but he only cared if Lily was saved, not her family, and you don't do that with someone you care for.
Snape and Lily all the way! I just love Snape’s character and it literally shattered my heart in his last scene, wanting to see Lily’s eyes just one more time. Who can’t like the guy?? Clearly he loved lily and I always thought James was a big headed idiot who bullies people without reason. He never experienced anything sad in his childhood but Snape had a harsh home life, no friends and he lost lily to James. At the end of the day, I guess it’s up to Lily to decide, but I still don’t think Snape deserved to die alone. ✌️
Lindsey wrote: "Snape and Lily all the way! I just love Snape’s character and it literally shattered my heart in his last scene, wanting to see Lily’s eyes just one more time. Who can’t like the guy?? Clearly he l..."I completely disagree that Snape having a bad home life or a harsh childhood entitled him to Lily's friendship or even her love. Ignoring that Snape too was a bully and that he also gave as good as he got (which is mentioned by several people in the series), his home life and his past and his childhood do not entitle him to anyone's time or love or anything. Snape died alone because he chose bitterness over trying to be a better person.
what the heck kind of question is that????!!!!!!! lily and james!!!!!!
Can someone tell me a reason James and Lily was a good couple.
1. James was a jerk. He did 𝙤𝙣𝙚 good deed before he died. That 𝙤𝙣𝙚 good deed doesn’t make up for the fact that he was mostly a jerk. I don’t understand Lily liking him.2. Snape was a jerk to. To be fair to him, having Lily choosing James (who had bullied him for like years) must have been a bit of a shock. That’s no excuse for calling Lily a mudblood. He was controlling. His thought process was “Lily’s mine, I found her first.” That type of attitude is not good.
3. Let’s be honest, both were a little obsessed. Most people choose to ignore that.
4. We barely see any of Lily. She’s described as good and all that, but we barely see it.
5. Supposedly James changed. We don’t see it. We just choose to be good little readers and believe it.
♥♬✌︎⇢ ʟɪʟʏ, ʏᴏᴜʀ ғᴜᴛᴜʀᴇ ᴘʀᴀᴇᴛᴏʀ ⇠✌︎♬♥ wrote: "Can someone tell me a reason James and Lily was a good couple."I suppose that james was a jerk but snape was a murderer!
Yes, I know that I understand that. I didn’t say I preferred Snape + Lily (tbh Lily could have done way better.).
♥♬✌︎⇢ ʟɪʟʏ, ʏᴏᴜʀ ғᴜᴛᴜʀᴇ ᴘʀᴀᴇᴛᴏʀ ⇠✌︎♬♥ wrote: "Yes, I know that I understand that. I didn’t say I preferred Snape + Lily (tbh Lily could have done way better.)."lily and james were happy together though.
True, I’m just stating my opinion. In the end I guess it’s just Lily’s chose.
♥♬✌︎⇢ ʟɪʟʏ, ʏᴏᴜʀ ғᴜᴛᴜʀᴇ ᴘʀᴀᴇᴛᴏʀ ⇠✌︎♬♥ wrote: "True, I’m just stating my opinion. In the end I guess it’s just Lily’s chose."I agree (:
♥♬✌︎⇢ ʟɪʟʏ, ʏᴏᴜʀ ғᴜᴛᴜʀᴇ ᴘʀᴀᴇᴛᴏʀ ⇠✌︎♬♥ wrote: "1. James was a jerk. He did 𝙤𝙣𝙚 good deed before he died. That 𝙤𝙣𝙚 good deed doesn’t make up for the fact that he was mostly a jerk. I don’t understand Lily liking him.2. Snape was a jerk to. To ..."
Preach! I think that I could have gotten around James and Lily if only JK. Rowling had just chosen to show us how James changed. It did not need to be much, just a fragment of someone's memory (someone that is not Sirius, or Remus though, because of course they would remember him fondly, he was their friend) perhaps you could show in the Prince's tale how James really did looked remorseful for treating Snape so badly and even apologized to him. Instead of what we got, in which, yeah, James COULD have been saving Snape because it was the right thing to do, or he could have been saving him so that his two best friends didn't end up in Azkaban.
I personally think it should have been Snape and Lily, cause they have the same patronus' which means they are soumates, also I find James and Lily's personality not very compatible
Luna wrote: "I personally think it should have been Snape and Lily, cause they have the same patronus' which means they are soumates, also I find James and Lily's personality not very compatible"Actually, in the lore of Harry Potter that does not mean they are compatible (though Snape's patronus changed after Lily's death to match hers). That Lily has a doe and James had a stag actually suggests they are compatible because their patronuses are compatible.
But your last point is most pertinent as Lily and Snape's personalities were not very compatible either in the end.
Meg wrote: "Luna wrote: "I personally think it should have been Snape and Lily, cause they have the same patronus' which means they are soumates, also I find James and Lily's personality not very compatible"..."
Yeah, similar patronuses just mean you are in love. Basically, Snape was the happiest when around Lily so his patronus took the same shape as hers.
Annette wrote: "Meg wrote: "Luna wrote: "I personally think it should have been Snape and Lily, cause they have the same patronus' which means they are soumates, also I find James and Lily's personality not very c..."No, that's not what they mean. Similar patroni can mean any number of things but, typically, they mean you are similar in personality OR that you see that person as a protector. It can change if you are in love with someone (e.g., Tonks), but it is not indicative of a returned relationship. Snape sharing Lily's patronus does not mean they are compatible or that he loved her, nor does it mean they are soulmates which is what I was disagreeing with in your original statement for the most part.
It is established canon that COMPATIBLE not THE SAME patronus is indicative of soulmates, and it's why Hermione and Ron's patroni caused a lot of issue when JKR revealed what they were.
Okay thanks for the information I did not know that, so that is why these were my reasons, I stand by my point that it should be Snape and Lily, cause they also have been friends since they were little.
Meg wrote: "Annette wrote: "Meg wrote: "Luna wrote: "I personally think it should have been Snape and Lily, cause they have the same patronus' which means they are soumates, also I find James and Lily's person..."Well, just because you are in love does not mean you are compatible or that you should be in a relationship. I was not saying that, I am just saying that if you have the same Patronus it means the same as loving someone. At least when doing it consciously, say Thonks and Remus or Lily and Snape. With Harry, I just think it was a coincidence, as he and James were simply similar.
The Patronus changes shape based on your true character and specifically what makes you happy.This is my interpretation:
Harry's is a stag because he draws upon memories of his parents when he first conjured the Patronus.
Lily's Patronus is a doe, because she is happy as James' partner in life.
Lupin's Patronus is a wolf, because (I imagine) he may have recalled his friendship with the other Marauder's as an early feeling of happiness. With the wolfsbane potion, he still became a wolf each month but he maintained his conscious mind. Likely he first felt safe with that vulnerability when his friends became Animagi to accompany him during the full moon each month. That may contribute to his happy memory.
Tonks' changes from a rabbit to a wolf because she finds joy in being Remus' partner, and she loves him and accepts his vulnerable side (i.e. werewolf).
As for Ron and Hermione, they both had strong characters when we first met them and maybe they were more mature than we give them credit. Falling in love does not mean they had to surrender their original source of intense joy; I just see both of them as being independent people who are also happy together. (Come on, Cursed Child: Hermione would not have become a miserable spinster without Ron! She's better than that!)
Dumbledore's Patronus is a phoenix, likely reflective of his family bonds. After all, the Dumbledores were much closer before Ariana's death, so he may be recalling his youth when he conjures the spell.
Snape's Patronus is a doe like Lily's because he recalls his joy for her when he conjures it. I don't think he ever saw himself as Lily's partner, and I don't think it is not canon that he was *in love* with Lily, simply that he loved her.
I see his love for her to be much like Dumbledore's love for Harry. Dumbledore loved and cared for Harry and wanted to protect him, much as Snape wanted for Lily.
Lily herself symbolizes Snape's happy memory, not the thought of being her partner.
Julia wrote: "The Patronus changes shape based on your true character and specifically what makes you happy.This is my interpretation:
Harry's is a stag because he draws upon memories of his parents when he f..."
I think it is pretty confirmed that he *In love* with Lily. Pretty sure even Pottermore confirmed it.
I think it was Harry's interpretation that Snape was in love with Lily, Dumbledore merely said he "loved her." I'll check the book.
Pottermore says his hobby is "Being devoted to Lily Potter." It's interesting to put it as a hobby. 😅It also says: "In the context of this and as Snape’s story unravels, we understand the pure depth of the love he has for Lily. A love that had him spying on one of the most dangerous and deadly Dark wizards that ever lived. From the moment we see him going to Dumbledore ¬– ‘Don’t kill me!’ – we understand better the high stakes Snape has been gambling with. We understand that from the moment he goes to Dumbledore until the moment of his death he has been living in fear for his life. And it’s all for love. All for Lily. Snape shows us that love is stronger than fear, and that is something overwhelmingly beautiful."
It never says "in love."
Actually, Pottermore does confirm it see this article https://www.wizardingworld.com/featur...
In this article, it talks about how, if Snape had never been *in love* with Lily, the wizarding world would have significantly changed.
Fair enough. I wonder if J.K. Rowling wrote either of these sections?
I just re-read the end of Deathly Hallows and all references to Lily say Snape "loved" her, not necessarily was in love. The closest statement of him being in love actually comes from Voldemort who recalls that Snape desired Lily, and he told Snape that there were "other women, and of purer blood" after she died. So of all the characters who speak of Snape's love for Lily, only Voldemort recounts Snape as wanting to be Lily's partner. Although Voldemort understands nothing of love, so I imagine he believed Snape wanted a physical relationship with Lily. Coming from Voldemort, I can't give much credibility to his perspective of the situation.Here's where I stand: Snape had a childhood love for Lily, as most people have crushes on childhood friends in the real world. I think he continued to love her, but we don't see much of him being "in love" with her as he got older. You can still love a childhood crush, even if you grow up and only see each other as friends. Love is more complicated than simply being "in love and wanting to be partners." I think it evolved for Snape when being her partner was no longer an option. I'm not saying he wasn't in love with her, I'm just saying the book does not word it exactly that way. Therefore his happiness (source of Patronus) came from the thought of Lily, not from the thought of her loving him back and being his partner.
More than anything, I've just become curious as to what the book actually says on the topic, and I wonder if the wording changes for these quotes in other translations.
Anyways, back to the question at hand...
I think I'm Team James because he does seem to mature as he gets older.Both boys were bullies as children, but James lived more within the light than Snape. He cared immensely about his friends, pushing himself to become an Animagus for Remus' sake. He was cruel to Snape, but he never hurt the people close to him. He invited Sirius to live with his family, and I think this would have been a moment when he grew up a bit.
I think Snape and Lily. I think he would have shaped up if she loved him
Julia wrote: "I just re-read the end of Deathly Hallows and all references to Lily say Snape "loved" her, not necessarily was in love. The closest statement of him being in love actually comes from Voldemort who..."The article was not written by JK. Rowling herself, but I highly doubt she would approve of such a claim had it not been official. There is also this bit on Wikipedia:
"Rowling was less forthcoming about Snape than she was for other characters, because his true loyalties and motivations were not revealed until the final book. However, she hinted numerous times at Snape's important role, suggesting that people should "keep their eye on Snape". In 1999, answering a question regarding Snape's love life and the redemptive pattern of his character, Rowling expressed her surprise at the foresight. Rowling also disclosed that after the publication of Prisoner of Azkaban, there was one female fan who guessed Snape loved Lily Potter, making Rowling wonder how she had given herself away."
Here is the quote from the interview:
Lydon: Er - one of our connec- ... one of our internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to fall in love?
JKR: Yeah? Who on earth would want Snape in love with them, that is a very horrible idea. Erm ...
Lydon: But you'd get an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape
JKR: It is, isn't it ... I got ... There's so much I wish I could say to you, and I can't because it'd ruin ... I promise you ... whoever asked that question, can I just say to you that I'm - I'm slightly stunned that you've said that - erm - and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read book 7. And that's all I'm going to say.
You can see the source for it here:
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1...
This mentions "in love" making it clear JK. Rowling says the character of the relationship is romantic, at least on Snape's side, though there is no implication Lily felt the same about Snape.
Here is what J.K Rowling had to say on the matter:
I remember a woman saying to me: “I think Snape loves Lily”. I was “Oh my God what the hell did I give away ?”. But so people, people got stuff very unnervingly right. Often. Yeah.”
For the source of that see: https://the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/4...
I guess that their relationship is kinda similar to that of Homura and Madoka, is it explicitly confirmed that Homura is in love with Madoka? not really. Is it so darn implied that even a blind man could see it...yes.
Faith (member of the tortured poets department) wrote: "I think Snape and Lily. I think he would have shaped up if she loved him"I don't think that is how love works... love is a very wonderful thing, but unlike in fairytales, it cannot turn frogs into princes. A person has to change for themselves.
I don't give much credibility to anything but the books anymore. As soon as Rowling explained that wizards used to "do their business" on the hallway floors before bathrooms were invented, my scope of "canon" became very limited. :PLong story short, Snape was in love with Lily. But his true source of happiness came from the thought of her, even if he wasn't her partner, hence the doe Patronus.
Julia wrote: "I don't give much credibility to anything but the books anymore. As soon as Rowling explained that wizards used to "do their business" on the hallway floors before bathrooms were invented, my scope..."Fair enough. However, this interview was given in 1999, which means that Deathly Hallows, The Half-Blood Prince, The Order of the Phoenix, and The Goblet of Fire had not yet been published or even written. J.K Rowling was still in the middle of writing the Harry Potter books. So it seems she always (pun not intended) thought Snape was *In Love* with Lily.
Yes, I agree! This debate just started because I was trying to clear up the meaning of his Patronus.
