Memoir Authors discussion
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Lost Decency, the Untold Afghan Story
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memoirs must be a certain length?
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Thanks for sharing, completely agree
Yes, so unfortunate. The first publisher provided so much pain vs joy in getting my book out.
It should be as long as you need it to be. I have never noticed that Proust and other great ones ever let themselves be limited in that way.Anna Karenina is for much of its text a lightly fictionalised personal memoir, full of the density of real experience. My own book is completely that. I have small sympathy with those who complain of the length of either.
I've read memoirs should be no more than 90,000 words. Like yours, my memoir at one point was well over 100,000. Worried about losing detail, I still bit the bullet and started trimming. I'm down to 91,000 and it is SO much better! Make every sentence count and get rid of those that don't move the story forward. That's my advice.
Great, many thanks for the feedback. Regards
Atta
Congratulations Atta- Your book sounds lovely. I have two books of memoirs, both half the length of your book I think. In the end, trust yourself.
Many thanks, looking forward to reading your books too.Have a great day
Atta
Hi, just began my autobiography because I have had a very fascinating life. What on-line classes would you suggest that I take? Should I put part of my story on my fb page?Laurie Eaton
I learned a lot from Sandra Beckward and Steve Harrison's online courses. I also heard the National Memoir Writer's Association has some solid online courses too. No, I would not promote much by posting on FB unless you are published or right before launch.
Hope this helps
Best of luck
Atta
Atta wrote: "Thirty years after having to leave Afghanistan, my native land, I felt inclined to write about what was once known as the darling tourist destination of Asia. After many years of establishing my ca..."Hi Atta...
I just self-published a memoir about the three years I lived off-grid in a wilderness cabin I built on 20 acres of Idaho riverfront. It's about 80,000 words.
I just simply feel a book should be as long as it takes to tell the story in a way readers want to experience. Setting up word counts, length limits, has always seemed forced to me.
I am now reading a Peter Matthiessen novel called, Shadow Country, and though I love his writing it is a slowish story and has been hard for me to keep at it for its length.
I've written a couple screenplays and they have always said, 120 pages, that is it! Two hours of screen time. But movies come out at nearly any length up to four hours these days, and then there are serials, and people watch them, and people read series that go on for many many books... and love them.
Are memoirs different? I don't know... but if a story is good, written well, why is 100,000 or 150,000 words too many? If it tells a story and the readers say, I loved it, then I recon it is the right length. Will try to read your book, it sounds fascinating... Congratulations!
Thanks very much Patrick for the response and sharing your thoughts. That is exactly how I felt too No wonder quite a few wished there were more details.Best regards
Atta
Hi Laurie- You can put your story on your facebook page, or a blog if you want. What are your intentions? Do you want to publish it? Congratulations on the goal!
It's probably the attention-span of the general reading population that publishers have in mind when they put word-limits on a book.As both a reader and a writer, I hesitate to start reading a published biography if it's overly long. Unless it's someone well-known such as a national politician. Even then, I have to really like a person and they have to have a lot of substantive content in their book for me to "stay with" a long book.
As a writer, I've been forced over the years to learn to condense my own writing. The benefit that I've come to appreciate "after the fact" is that my writing has gradually become more focused as a result.
I think memoir should be not more than 250 pages with a lot of free space on the pages so the reader's eyes can feel rested. I like the way Glass Castle is written.
Most memoirs I have read are around 225-250 pages. My memoir Looking for a Kiss is 216 pages. A memoir is not an autobiography; a memoir is focused and has a specific container.
I think a memoir should be as long as it needs to be to tell the story of a particular time frame. It's not like fiction, where we can change everything to meet whatever guidelines we'd like; it is what it is, and should be told as such. That said, I'll read a lengthy memoir only if the author doesn't stray from the main storyline too much, or become overly wordy in their reflections and descriptions. If I find myself routinely skipping entire paragraphs to get back to the "real" story, then I don't usually finish the book.
Living in our spooky surroundings in 1935 had my mother scared. In addition to Mom, Dad, and my sister Judy there was one other person on the hill, our next door neighbor, Mrs. Wagner. Everyone else on the hill was dead. If Dad went out for the evening and we were all snug in our beds, we felt reasonably safe. But if we heard a sound outside our door, or if an auto stopped at the curb, my mother would lie down with her children, making my heart feel as if it were beating in my throat.
I tried editing comment above but I don't know how. What is there is a very small piece of what I said. I'm not an expert on computers. I'll try again.
Approaching my 83rd birthday I will have to concede that most people would think of me as old. However, writing about my youth has kept me young. Before and soon after self-publishing my memoirs I didn’t believe they would be all the rage of the age. Not thinking my life story should sell a million copies, ten thousand seemed reasonable. At the rate I’m going, it looks like I’ll wind up with 150. Not so terribly bad considering that on average 90% of authors are lucky if they sell 300. Why do I have so few readers? Poor marketing on my part even though I contacted more than 200 in the media and elsewhere. Of that many about 15% responded and I was given three interviews on radio and one on television. They were enjoyable discussions and were filled with laughter. Others reviewed my work in newspapers and magazines. These efforts at first left me feeling optimistic, but little came of it. I have had little exposure and also don’t know the right people. Having my own website might help, but even that would need exposure. Lacking whatever it takes leaves potential readers missing out on what reviewers have perceived to be a good read.
I recently hired a PR for $4,000. That didn’t help. Not one soft cover book or KDP Select sold and that is true for the past ten months.
Is my life story out of date? Perhaps, but what’s so in today? Sex, violence, torturous romances, throw in a few vampires and an occasional zombie. That’s fine I guess, but its fiction. The night of the living dead is real and belongs to this child before he reached the age of four. It was during the height of the Great Depression that he lived on a steep hill next to a crematory and a cemetery. The people who roamed the hill by day were mainly beggars, hobos, men who walked with a dragging gait and occasional Gypsies. Mourners were seen often. Some cried and once in a while you heard a frightening scream.
Living in our spooky surroundings in 1935 had my mother scared. In addition to Mom, Dad, and my sister Judy there was one other person on the hill, our next door neighbor, Mrs. Wagner. Everyone else on the hill was dead. If Dad went out for the evening and we were all snug in our beds, we felt reasonably safe. But if we heard a sound outside our door, or if an auto stopped at the curb, my mother would lie down with her children, making my heart feel as if it were beating in my throat.
From the cemetery you might hear bugles blowing and rifle shots at funerals which were honoring fallen World War I veterans. There were no real monsters, vampires or zombies on the loose. That didn’t happen until I was nine and living in Ridgewood, New York. Rumors spread throughout four adjoining towns that there were characters wandering about killing children. In 1943 we kids were on the lookout for the Creeper, the Weeper and the Sleeper.
Danger was lurking at every turn. One of my teachers whipped my back with a pointer leaving me with red welts. When I reached home that day my sister said, “You look like a zebra.” Another teacher attempted to pour what she said was a caustic liquid on my tongue. At the last second she changed her mind leaving my tongue intact. Our gang’s leading hangout was the railroad yards. We hopped freight cars for rides here and there. I was derring-do, an entertainer and show-off. Looking back I could also say an idiot. I’d think nothing of jumping off a bridge to a flat car passing beneath it, or hang high from a tree branch by my toes. Death was not a wish of mine, but flirting with it was fun. And the best part of my young life was falling in love with eight girls.
Events that I ran into were often weird like finding a dead baby in a fire we boys created the evening before. At seventeen I captured a rare species of spider which gave me my fifteen minutes of fame. Still, when I was six years old and about to register in a new school, I had to wait in the girls lavatory for my mother and sister to relieve themselves. A nun caught me there and that resulted in my having to begin school all over. A loss of one year. In the future, I was left back twice. Eventually, I tried improving my situation by walking out of school forever. That didn’t work. In the next school they had me repeat the same grade. Still I graduated grammar school, but at the not so tender age of sixteen years and three months.
In the early 1950’s I joined some veterans of World War II in protest against the Communist sympathizers in Union Square Park. Cops and robbers make the scene and there is a week spent in jail. If only my memoirs had the proper exposure, I believe I’d have a winner. Perhaps a best seller.
Do you think my problem is an age thing or as some have said, “Your memoirs are too personal and honest.” True. There is no embellishing truths and according to reviewers, they read like a novel and you feel you are right there with me. I don’t get it. Any suggestions?
Robert wrote: "Approaching my 83rd birthday I will have to concede that most people would think of me as old. However, writing about my youth has kept me young. Before and soon after self-publishing my memoirs I ..."Hello Robert,
I empathize with your frustrations. You have more exposure than most non-celebrity writers, of that you can be proud. It seems to me you are caught in the system where “dark” memoirs are flooding the market, where “wholesome” stories are outmoded, and in a market where everyone is writing a book these days. If it is any consolation, from what you have written here, my guess is that you book not selling is not your fault. Many of us memoir writers are facing similar struggles. I like what one author said – we write because we have to write. Don’t give up, keep writing. Look for those opportunities to share your story. Notice that I said “share your story” not “promote your book.” There is a difference. --PatM
Hi Pat,I appreciate what you say. At first I shared my stories on Facebook and a few local newspapers thinking I was promoting my book. I didn't see much at all in sales. Still, you're probably right. Here's a funny one. During Mother's Day the previous year I had not promoting my book in mind when on my page I sent a greeting to all mothers and women who unfortunately had no children by sharing two stories. It was the only time I did not intend to promote my book and I received one response from a guy who said, "That's shameless plugging."
I mainly shared my stories on Facebook. Those who read them clicked like but no discussions on what they read. I was surprised. Thanks again Pat and if you can let me know a little more about sharing my stories. I might not be doing it right.
Robert wrote: "Hi Pat,I appreciate what you say. At first I shared my stories on Facebook and a few local newspapers thinking I was promoting my book. I didn't see much at all in sales. Still, you're probably ri..."
Robert, do you end your stories on FB by asking your readers a question?
Well.. Robert, this in my 2 cents.Four years ago I published my first memoir called "It's Not My Mountain Anymore. I think it was/is popular because the title speaks to everyone. My experience with Facebook--it is chiefly for entertainment and has been a poor place for sales compared to the time I spent and still do...lol.
If you have pictures that reflect your books contents and perhaps put a short quote under it along with order info. it might help.
It is a hard market. Just remember, if we never sell a copy it was worth the time to write down, because somebody, someday will want to know.
Blessings your way!
www.itsnotmymountainanymore.com
Barbara wrote: "Well.. Robert, this in my 2 cents.Four years ago I published my first memoir called "It's Not My Mountain Anymore. I think it was/is popular because the title speaks to everyone. My experience w..."
Barbara, I love the title of your book.
Thank you very much Pat. I think I mentioned that I was derring-do. I wasn't afraid of much in my young life. Regarding my book a few people have said that I am reticent. That's true. Sort of not in my personality. But a negative. You're right about Facebook not being a place for sales. I don't have many pictures of my youth except for living next to a crematory. You're very encouraging Pat. We should all be like you. Final thought. Any suggestions where I could share my stories.
Thank you Pat, means much.Robert-- you don't have to post old pictures. Just something that matches your content. Flowers? Trees? Streams? Eggs? Anything to capture FB attention for a few seconds.
Hi, I did mine shorter … 38,100 or so :)(Wordpress): https://maureentwomey.wordpress.com/2...
Ann Z.: “Brooke. Tuesdays with Morrie was only 192 pages. It was such an easy read. What are your thoughts about that”
Brooke Warner: “I think shorter books are trending, and that it’s an example of how a shorter book can do really well and be commercial. Other examples: Annie Lammott’s Help, Thanks, Wow and Anna Quindlen’s A Short Guide to a Happy Life (only 64 pages!)”
M.Twomey: As well as the famous (haa) author, Maureen Twomey!
;)
Brooke Warner: https://www.facebook.com/warnercoachi...
When I first completed my memoirs they reached 1,000 pages. I didn't look for advice but turned my one book into three. The trilogy is one life. The first two are self-published. 368 pages,305 pages and the final book will be about 275 pages. Most of the stories are short. one quarter of a page to a page and a half. Then some three to five pages so I don't think a lot of pages is that frightening. Only friends and relatives are eager to read the third book. What is tough for me is that few people have read the first two making it hard to put the third out. I have a 96 year old woman waiting for the third as well as a 94 year old woman. Vol. 1 published August 2012. Vol. 2 August 2013. Time flew. Now I guess they're considered old. Only people who have read my books have not complained about the length. The others don't even know my books exist.
If it is okay to show my titles.I Had Jelly on MY Nose and A Hole in MY Breeches
http://amzn.to/1PH4Nxs
Sister Superior's Thumb, the Pope's Ring and the End of Childhood
http://bit.ly/sistersuperior
See Amazon reviews. Thanks.
This is something I have been frustrated about. I've been working on a memoir and at resent, I have 37K-something words. Many tell me that's too short unless you re self-publishing (I don't know if I should do that and don't think I will). Every memoir I have read or am planning to read have been 60K or more, some as many as 90K to 110K. (I checked the umber of words on this site: readinglength.com). One person I know from college says if I traditional publish, I have have 90K to give editors "wiggle-room" to edit.
Jamie wrote: "This is something I have been frustrated about. I've been working on a memoir and at resent, I have 37K-something words. Many tell me that's too short unless you re self-publishing (I don't know if..."
I think it all depends on the message you want to deliver. If you can reach that goal in 40K or so, than great. For myself, I didn't feel that mine was complete until around 91K - I self-published. A memoir is very personal, so I think you alone have to be the judge. All the best!
I think it all depends on the message you want to deliver. If you can reach that goal in 40K or so, than great. For myself, I didn't feel that mine was complete until around 91K - I self-published. A memoir is very personal, so I think you alone have to be the judge. All the best!
I have published one memoir through a traditional publisher and the word count only mattered in regards to the final cost of publishing. My point is the length really isn't the issue, it's what you are trying to convey that will determine it's length. Mine was around 40K and the second one in the publishing process now is 50K...It's completely up to your discretion.
Good Luck....
Memoirs are no different to other books. It takes as many words as it does to tell a tale. As with any book, readers would not appreciate the author simply stuffing things in just to make the book longer. Whether traditional publishers insist upon a minimum length I have no idea; all my books have been self-published. Surely the determining factor must be whether they consider readers would be interested in the book. Remember short stories, which are popular with many in these hectic days, are frequently between 2,000 - 10,000 words.
In writing my memoir, I also took on the path of self-publishing by taking various courses, which helped me develop a project that became a labor of love, crafted carefully and authentically. I had been apprehensive and frankly shy about talking about myself as I wanted to focus on the plight of Afghanistan. After considering creating another historical opinion piece, I decided it would be better to write from first-hand experience. This approach engaged my natural storytelling abilities and enabled me to communicate with a sense of pride and passion for the innocence of a country caught in turmoil.
The decision to write in first person was certainly one of the best decisions I have made in life. I became more and more interested in writing, asking questions of my mother and sisters to validate certain events. This helped me further appreciate the joy of writing authentically about my roots, the family I dearly loved who lived an honest and decent life in what once was our dear Afghanistan.
Then came the request I never anticipated. The first manuscript was 135,000 words in length, and my editors advised me that memoirs were typically much shorter. As a first time writer I was stumped as to what to say or do next. I tried to convince them to keep my writing details intact but was told that I must shorten it or consider publishing two books.
I realized that I did not have time and resources to consider a second book and reluctantly started to trim my writing. I felt sick to my stomach as I tried to take a way so many valuable details and at times just thought of giving up. But I had already set a goal for myself with my family and did not want to let them down.
It was all worth it because my book Lost Decency - The Untold Afghan Story once published, ultimately became a finalist for IBPA’s first year Benjamin Franklin Award.
Readers contacted me and expressed a desire to learn more details about certain stories contained in the book. I have noticed quite a few powerful memoirs that contain more than 100,000 words.
I would appreciate hearing your viewpoints on the appropriate length of a good memoir. Also, what kind of stories would compel you to invest more time reading a lengthier work?
Gratefully,
Atta