The Pickwick Club discussion
This topic is about
Dombey and Son
Dombey and Son
>
Dombey and Son: Reading Schedule and General Thoughts
Here's the schedule in American dating for those who find it easier to follow. (Starting date of week only).I like to print out the schedule and use it for a bookmark. But having to consult that European schedule format every week makes my eyes cross.
9/11/14: Chapters 01 - 04
9/18/14: Chapters 05 - 07
9/25/14: Chapters 08 - 10
10/2/14: Chapters 11 - 13
10/9/14: Chapters 14 - 16
10/16/14: Chapters 17 - 19
10/23/14: Chapters 20 - 22
10/30/14: Chapters 23 - 25
11/6/14: Chapters 26 - 28
11/13/16: Chapters 29 - 31
11/20/13: Chapters 32 - 34
11/27/14: Chapters 35 - 38
12/4/14: Chapters 39 - 41
12/11/14: Chapters 42 - 45
12/18/14: Chapters 46 - 48
12/25/14: Chapters 49 - 51
1/1/15: Chapters 52 - 54
1/8/15: Chapters 55 - 57
1/15/15: Chapters 58 - 59
1/22/15: Chapters 60 - 62
Everyman wrote: "I like to print out the schedule and use it for a bookmark. But having to consult that European schedule format every week makes my eyes cross."Thank you! I also print it out and use it as a bookmark.
Everyman wrote: "Here's the schedule in American dating for those who find it easier to follow. "Yes, why do you do M/D/Y thing that across the pond???!!
Especially to annoy N American Pickwickians (because I know you can take it ;-)) :
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NoUGuH6R4uk...
Pip wrote: "Especially to annoy N American Pickwickians (because I know you can take it ;-))"Ha ha! That's a great cartoon. Yep, totally doesn't make sense, but when you've grown up with writing it as M/D/Y for your entire life, it's difficult to look at it in a different format.
Although the measurements are a different story. Being a scientist, I'm used to the metric system, it just makes sense!! So much easier to simply move a decimal point.
Pip wrote: "Yes, why do you do M/D/Y thing that across the pond???!!"Because we looked at the way you over there had done it for centuries and realized there was a better way.
Linda wrote: "Pip wrote: "Especially to annoy N American Pickwickians (because I know you can take it ;-))"Ha ha! That's a great cartoon. Yep, totally doesn't make sense, but when you've grown up with writin..."
You're relatively lucky, Linda. I grew up with metric at school and imperial at home. I have never been able to estimate lengths, dimensions, weights, you name it!
Everyman wrote: "Pip wrote: "Yes, why do you do M/D/Y thing that across the pond???!!"Because we looked at the way you over there had done it for centuries and realized there was a better way."
Hey, Mister! I'm all for innovation and improvements and there are certainly many things your ancestors have done better than mine. I just can't see why M/D/Y is better. One good explanation, and I'm happy to accept defeat. Apart from metric, I was also taught to be a good loser ;-)
On a more relevant note, I'm looking forward to following the discussion for Dombey. I read it last year with another group, and it's become one of my favourite Dickenses. I'm sure everyone will enjoy it :-)
Pip wrote: "On a more relevant note, I'm looking forward to following the discussion for Dombey."I just ordered my copy today!!
Also, back to the measurements. I'm not saying I don't get confused, having grown up with the confusing measurements. I'm always forgetting if it's 8 or 16 ounces per pound, or how many pints per quart, whatever. But I do tend to remember some of my conversions - 2.2 kg per lb, 2.5 cm per inch, etc.
Pip wrote: "I just can't see why M/D/Y is better. One good explanation, and I'm happy to accept defeat."The power of primacy. The most important thing in any communication should be the first thing.
Think about what is most important most times when you are considering dates. In most cases, you know what year you're talking about. But then, what's more important to orient yourself -- the month, or the day?
When you look ahead at the reading schedule, when you want to know when section 8 starts, which is more important to you to know first -- that it's the 30th of some month, or that it is in October. I say it's best to know first that you're talking about October, and then to drill down to which day in October.
Or is you're about to make a doctor's appointment which requires a considerable lead time. You know it will be sometime within the next year, so you don't need to know the year. But how helpful is it if the receptionist says "well, I have some 30th days of a month," or "well, I have some days in October"? Do you start by saying "well, some 30th is good for me, which months are available?" Or do you say "October is good for me, which days are available"? Obviously, that it will be in October is more important, and then you can drill down to which day in October. So October is the more important piece of information in the date, so that's what you start with. That's the power of primacy.
Hmmm... Some good arguments, but I'm not convinced you couldn't use the power of primacy to argue for D/M/Y too. I don't want to hijack this thread, so, temporary truce? We can take it up again elsewhere :-))Oh, and by the way, you said "Or is you're about to make a doctor's appointment which requires a considerable lead time. You know it will be sometime within the next year, so you don't need to know the year." You've obviously never had dealings with the British NHS.....
Does the edition matter? I already have the Penguin edition, bought last year and haven't cracked it yet. This seems like a good opportunity to do so...
No, Jo, the edition does not really matter at all. In my edition, the different instalments are marked, but if that is not the case in yours, you can simply print the reading schedule and will always be up to date ;-)
Pip wrote: "Hmmm... Some good arguments, but I'm not convinced you couldn't use the power of primacy to argue for D/M/Y too. "You're welching. You said "One good explanation, and I'm happy to accept defeat."
Now you admit I have more than one good argument, but you haven't conceded defeat.
Fulfill your promise. Man up. Accept defeat happily! Then, as you said, the topic can be comfortably closed without further hijacking this thread.
I can't believe that for once, just once remember, I totally agree with Everyman, on the month, day thing that is. No, it can't be total agreement, I refuse to totally agree with him or Tristram for that matter so I'll go back and find something to disagree over.
Kim wrote: "I can't believe that for once, just once remember, I totally agree with Everyman, ..."That's scary. What did I do wrong?
Also, another option for reading Dombey is Mousehold Words. You can subscribe to receive one serial part in your email every week, and read it in your favorite e-reader app or on the web site if you prefer. The service is free and it doesn't keep or sell your email address.
I shall probably not be joining this read as I read it just before I joined The Pickwick Club, a few months ago. I intend to follow the comments though to refresh my memory!
Everyman wrote: "Pip wrote: "Hmmm... Some good arguments, but I'm not convinced you couldn't use the power of primacy to argue for D/M/Y too. "You're welching. You said "One good explanation, and I'm happy to ac..."
I surrender since I expressed myself poorly. However, I admitted you gave some good sub-arguments all within the main power of primacy argument, but as the main argument doesn't convince me, I can't accept defeat on the M/D/Y thing.
Basque, now, does Y/M/D. But that's largely due to Basque word order, adjectives/possessives coming before nouns. So they say "Of the year 2014, of the month of September, the day number six". Or Bimila hamalauko irailaren seia".
Still in a logical order from largest to smallest, though...
Thanks for the Basque word order, Pip. Truly fascinating! And being Irish I'm strictly D/M/Y :)
The reason I like Everyman's schedule so much more than Tristram's schedule, of course has nothing to do with the two people making the lists for I like them quite equally, however Tristram's schedule has 16 numbers on each line and there are 20 lines. I'm not sure how many numbers that ends up with because I have no interest in adding them up, however Everyman's schedule only has 9 numbers on each line. There are still 20 lines so that is still a lot of numbers for a person who hates math almost as much as bugs and mice, but it's better than Tristram's. :-}
Following your argument about the best way of writing the date was quite interesting for me because I had the impression that all the rational arguments were on Everyman's side, and yet I would never ever stop using the European system because it is more aesthetic as a system in that it starts from the smallest unit - the day - to proceed via the next biggest unit - the month - to the biggest unit - the year. As far as I'm concerned, that is a very soothing thing, just like a Bach concerto. Why on earth should we put the middle unit at the beginning, then have the smallest and finally the largest unit? Where is the harmony in there?When you have a figure such as 157, you do not say fifty-seven and a hundred, do you? [Okay, we in Germany say seven-and-fifty, so that's a bad example.]
So I appeal to the lovers of beauty and form over utility to give the cheers for D/M/Y.
Hip hip hoooray!
Hip hip ...
..................well, it was worth a try.
The Basque system is very useful, too, and logical. I always use it - without previously knowing it was Basque - as the first part of the names for my computer files, because this way they are neatly kept in chronological order.
Thanks for the support, Tristram! Plus, I'd forgotten the Excel Argument for Y/M/D ;-)I'm sure Mr Paul Dombey Sr would have used D/M/Y for its neatness - though whether that's a positive endorsement or not, we shall soon see....
Sorry, another thought on this date question: in N America, do you tend to say "The seventh of September" or "September the seventh"? Perhaps it's simply a question of translating spoken use to the written form?
Hip Hip Hooray, Tristram!! Even, Hip Hip Hip Hooooooooooray! Like your argument: I'm forever a DMY person!!!
Yay! I'd like to join this read. It'll be my first Dickens read with the group and I'm looking forward to it. I'll be rereading Ulysses during the same time but at a pretty slow pace (and it's a reread) that I don't think this will slow me down too much.
I'm pretty ambidextrous about the date thing so I should be able to keep up with the schedule. :D
Pip wrote: Thanks for the support, Tristram! Plus, I'd forgotten the Excel Argument for Y/M/D ;-)"WARNING: MATH AHEAD. KIM, TAKE A DETOUR.
When I started teaching computer programming back in the 1970s (it was a brief period and I have long since lost any skill in programming), dates were always written YYYYMMDD (or to save space more often YYMMDD with the 19 assumed because back then nobody though any of our programming would survive into the 20th century).
So today is 20140907. Why? Obviously, it made it a snap to sort dates into order. Any other order would make it necessary to break the date field apart and reassemble it.
Me likes it , Everyman!
Will there be another thread open to post for discussions regarding only the book, or is here okay? Thanks!
Don't worry, Ami - we've got way, way side-tracked here. The group leaders will eventually set up threads for discussion of each section of the book. This thread SHOULD be for any background info or general comments, I believe. I've been bad and hijacked the thread, though Everyman should have known better than to egg me on.... Have you started reading Dombey already?
Back on topic.As I mentioned previously, I read this for the first time last year with another group and loved it. I gave it five stars, which is very unusual for me. I will be very interested to hear later on what everyone else's ratings are, and why Hilary and Everyman gave three stars - for me, signifying a novel which was ok and enjoyable enough, but probably not worth a re-read. Dombey very definitely is.
Pip wrote: "Don't worry, Ami - we've got way, way side-tracked here. The group leaders will eventually set up threads for discussion of each section of the book. This thread SHOULD be for any background info o..."Oh, funny! Yes, I started yesterday! No worries, I was just wondering as far as protocol. Talk to all of you soon!
Looking forward to it :-)
day, month, year; month, day, year. Oh, my brain hurts.Being Canadian, I agree with everyone, eh.
LOL, Peter. We should probably apologize for something as well. :D
Peter, Petra, Pearte, Prater...... LOL!!!!!!!!But, hey, when the Irish agree with you.... You have to feel good ;-))
I am printing out the reading schedule "bookmark" in hopes that my book will be in the mailbox when I get home tonight.
Before I forget: As usual, I will post the thread to our weekly group read on Sundays. Anyone who finds me remiss in this duty is invited to post it for me instead of just waiting for it to happen ;-)Sunday is a good day because most of us will be deeply immersed in the week's reading portion by then.
Tristram wrote: "Before I forget: As usual, I will post the thread to our weekly group read on Sundays. Anyone who finds me remiss in this duty is invited to post it for me instead of just waiting for it to happen ..."As a first time reader with you guys, I need a little clarification. So for the first week's reading, Sept 11th on the schedule, which is a Thursday, the thread for that reading will be posted on the next Sunday, so Sept 14th?
Linda wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Before I forget: As usual, I will post the thread to our weekly group read on Sundays. Anyone who finds me remiss in this duty is invited to post it for me instead of just waiting ..."Yes, it will!
You are most welcome!
LOL! .....beyond annoying, for sure...
Lindsay wrote: "Q: is it just me or is Mrs Nickelby beyond annoying???"
It's definitely not just you.
;) Being new to this group, I need to ask, where do we post on the chapters for Dombey and Son. Is there a new thread, or is it here?Lene on vacation in Annapolis, lots of travel time and therefore way ahead in Dombey already.
Lene wrote: ";) Being new to this group, I need to ask, where do we post on the chapters for Dombey and Son. Is there a new thread, or is it here?Lene on vacation in Annapolis, lots of travel time and theref..."
The moderators will post a discussion thread for each week's reading section. If you look at any of the other book discussions you'll get a good idea how it works.
Tristram wrote: "No, Jo, the edition does not really matter at all . . . "I would disagree that the edition you read "does not really matter at all."
For example I downloaded a free Kindle edition of Dombey while waiting for delivery of my paperback. The Kindle edition was riddled with typos -- and perhaps content errors as well . . . I didn't bother to check. My Penguin edition came quickly and I switched over to that.
In my opinion, the best editions of Dickens are either the Penguin or the Oxford World's Classics. In fact, you can't go wrong with these editions no matter what author or book you are reading.
There are other good editions of all books, but I say if you can get the book you want in either Penguin or Oxford World's Classics then go ahead! They are Best of Breed.
So I just got my book yesterday, I have the Penguin edition. Just to warn anyone who hasn't read this book yet and has this edition, to NOT read the endnote given for the Preface. It gives away a major incident that happens and I was severely disappointed in having read it. I purposely did not read the introduction so I would not read any spoilers, but I assumed I would be safe in reading the Preface, written by C.D. for the 1858 "Cheap Edition", along with any endnotes. The actual preface was fine, it was the endnote that gave away the plot.So....I'm already starting this book with knowing what happens later on. :(
I shouldn't worry too much, Linda. SO much happens in this novel and what you read in the preface might not be the big deal you think it is.... :-)
according to our last poll, which had 11 participants, we are going to start reading Dombey and Son directly after we will have finished Martin Chuzzlewit. I do hanker for some of the Sketches, but maybe we will find some time for them next year.
Here is our Reading Schedule for Dombey then:
11/09/14 - 17/09/14: Chapters 01 - 04
18/09/14 - 24/09/14: Chapters 05 - 07
25/09/14 - 01/10/14: Chapters 08 - 10
02/10/14 - 08/10/14: Chapters 11 - 13
09/10/14 - 15/10/14: Chapters 14 - 16
16/10/14 - 22/10/14: Chapters 17 - 19
23/10/14 - 29/10/14: Chapters 20 - 22
30/10/14 - 05/11/14: Chapters 23 - 25
06/11/14 - 12/11/14: Chapters 26 - 28
13/11/14 - 19/11/14: Chapters 29 - 31
20/11/14 - 26/11/14: Chapters 32 - 34
27/11/14 - 03/12/14: Chapters 35 - 38
04/12/14 - 10/12/14: Chapters 39 - 41
11/12/14 - 17/12/14: Chapters 42 - 45
18/12/14 - 24/12/14: Chapters 46 - 48
25/12/14 - 31/12/14: Chapters 49 - 51
01/01/15 - 07/01/15: Chapters 52 - 54
08/01/15 - 14/01/15: Chapters 55 - 57
15/01/15 - 21/01/15: Chapters 58 - 59
22/01/15 - 28/01/15: Chapters 60 - 62
The weekly reading bits correspond to the instalments in which the novel was published; the last instalment was a double number, however, but I divided it into two weeks anyway.
As usual, if you spot any inconsistencies or mistakes in the reading schedule, please set me straight about them.
Personally, I'm looking forward to another major read with you - all the more so since Dombey and Son never was one of my most favourite Dickens novels, and I am curious if age and the experience of rereading the novel together with other Dickens aficionados will be able to change my mind about this book.