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June/July 2019 - Gone With the Wind - Part 1 Discussion (thru 06/12/19)
Hi, I am Avie from Kenya. This is my first ever group read and I hope this will help me read more classics.
Hi - I'm Daphne, a 55-year old New Yorker but an original Michigander. I always list Gone with the Wind as one of my favorite novels but I have not read the book in years. I am excited to take the opportunity over a couple of months to reread it with the group. It will be interesting to see how my views of the book have changed over the years. I am really looking forward to it.
Hi everyone! I'm Kathryn and am an English major. I have never read Gone with the Wind and am very excited to be reading along with everyone!
Mod
Margaret Munnerlyn Mitchell (November 8, 1900 - August 16, 1949) was an American author and journalist. One novel by Mitchell was published during her lifetime, the American Civil War-era novel, Gone with the Wind, for which she won the National Book Award for Most Distinguished Novel of 1936 and the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1937. In more recent years, a collection of Mitchell's girlhood writings and a novella she wrote as a teenager, Lost Laysen, have been published. A collection of articles written by Mitchell for The Atlanta Journal was republished in book form.
Bio from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Hi, everyone. I am so looking forward to hearing other folk's reactions to GWTW. I am a new member but I am not new to this book. I first read GWTW when I was in seventh or eighth grade, back in the late sixties. I loved it. It became one of my three favorites, along with To Kill A Mockingbird and A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Recently, I listened to the audio book and I enjoyed it too but I think it is best to read it the first go round. I am a little apprehensive as to how others will view book because some of the language and character portrayals may be racist to modern sensibilities. For me Margaret Mitchell is unmatched in the ability to create characters that stay with you for life, like people you knew long ago.
Hi guys and gals! I’m Becky 43 currently from Upstate NY ( grew up in Chicago).
As a child I was obsessed with this movie and read the book the first time in maybe 7th or 8th grade. I re-read when the sequel was released, but have not read as an adult, so am looking forward to it.
As a setting, the mid to late 1800’s through the early 1900’s has always been a favorite of mine in novels. I especially enjoy books set just-pre, during, and post the civil war. ( hmmm really though I could have ended that sentence after “I especially enjoy books” hahaha).
While, as stated, this movie was a childhood favorite, I love being able to get into Scarlet’s head, I feel like the book is more forgiving to some of the harshness of her onscreen character. ( although, it has been way too long for me to remember the specifics). I do admire the authors ability to immerse us in the setting and look forward to taking this journey again with you all.
Hi all, I am Connie from New Brunswick Canada. I am 64 years old and have never read this book but only last week picked it up at local charity book sale. I joined this group ages ago, life got busy and totally forgot about it until yesterday. Was thrilled to see this as this months read so it has been moved to the top of my large and ever growing TBR pile.Have only read the first chapter but am in enthralled by her powers of description immediately brought back the beautiful cinematography of the movie.
I to was amazed at her inner thought descriptions of Scarlett. It is much more developed than the film, but the film is wonderful! Tom
As I started reading, I am struck by the fact that Scarlett is only 16 and the Tarylton twins are 19. So young! I love the descriptions of the landscape an knowing the backstory of Scarlett’s parents.
Mitchell seems, to me, to write from the general to the specific, as in the the entire bbq segment. Superb writing!
There is no better book group moderator than a English teacher! Thank you!
Thanks Tom, but I'm actually having to turn off the 'English teacher' role ;-) Initially, I had plans to add more writing threads for more engagement in the way I would if I were doing this in the classroom. (Asking for passages, connections, questions, etc.) I just don't want to scare anyone off by adding too many 'expectations.'
I'm a little envious of anyone reading this book for the first time, such a ride despite some distressing language and attitudes, but knowing the plot does mean I pay more attention to little things. This is at least the 5th time I've read this book but I've never noticed this before."I don't like Mamma Jincy's fortunes. You know she said I was going to marry a gentleman with jet-black hair and a long mustache."
Sylvia, Yes. It’s only Goodreads. No term papers required. Thanks! Tom
Hi! I’m Paige, I’m a college student at Saint Joseph’s University in Philadelphia originally from New Jersey. My mom (Beth) turned me on to Goodreads because I’m lifeguarding this summer and spend my down time reading. She told me about how she was reading “Gone with the Wind” and I wanted to join because I’ve read it twice! It’s one of my favorites.
I will say as a 20-year-old, I love this book because Scarlett’s teenage feelings are recently relatable to me, but her experience is extraordinary. I remember my boy problems being a part of my most pressing problems at sixteen, and even four years later I can see how dramatic my emotions were. When you’re young, it’s hard to see how much life and potential and growing you have ahead of you. I also will also admit I have green eyes and she inspired me to wear more green to bring them out!
Anyone else kinda liking Scarlett so far? If I lived in that world, I would have probably been much more like her myself."It was a man's world, and she (Ellen) accepted it as such. The man owned the property, and the woman managed it. The man took the credit for the management, and the woman praised his cleverness. The man roared like a bull when a splinter was n his finger, and the woman muffled the moans of childbirth, lest she disturb him. Men were rough of speech and often drunk. Women ignored the lapses of speech and put the drunkards to be without bitter words. Men were rude and outspoken, women were always kind, gracious and forgiving (75)."
Hi I actually JUST finished this, HOWEVER, I want to follow the thread as I don't have big readers in my family so never get a chance to process through what I am reading or have read with anyone but my own brain. :)
Paige wrote: "Hi! I’m Paige, I’m a college student at Saint Joseph’s University in Philadelphia originally from New Jersey. My mom (Beth) turned me on to Goodreads because I’m lifeguarding this summer and spen..."
I'm also reading the book with my college student daughter. A great mother/daughter summer activity!
Sylvia wrote: "Anyone else kinda liking Scarlett so far? If I lived in that world, I would have probably been much more like her myself."It was a man's world, and she (Ellen) accepted it as such. The man owned ..."
There is a lot I like about her in that she faces the world squarely and although she tries to superficially meet the social standards of the time, she is not afraid to pursue what she wants openly and unapologetically. I pity her for her lack of insight into the character of other people. I will stop here because I don't know how much you have read so far. I don't want to go on because it would spoil the story for you.
Sylvia wrote: "Anyone else kinda liking Scarlett so far? "While I do empathise with the whole drama princess stuff, I'm not sure I like Scarlett very much at this stage. But then I almost certainly wouldn't have liked myself at 16 either.
Richard wrote: "Hi, I'm Richard, a 54 years old French-Canadian reader...I am hesitant about reading this book, frankly because it is:
1. Historical novel (not much into them)
2. Set in the US (I might feel dis..."
Richard wrote: "Hi, I'm Richard, a 54 years old French-Canadian reader...
I am hesitant about reading this book, frankly because it is:
1. Historical novel (not much into them)
2. Set in the US (I might feel dis..."
If you don't care for historical novels, then this may not be the book for you but I strongly recommended giving it at least a couple of chapters. Margaret Mitchell was a great storyteller. It is shame that she only lived to write the one book. The character of Scarlett O'Hara is one of the most memorable fictional characters of all time in my opinion. This is basically the story of the impact of the American Civil War on a southern belle, and how that war changes her and the world around her. Easy to read and the story hooks most readers by the 3rd or 4th chapter.
Angela wrote: "it is a book which grips you and its just one you can not put down. I have history with this book. My grandmother was Margaret Mitchell's bFF. My grandfather was a journalist at the same newspaper ..."That is so cool. I've never met anyone who had any experience with Margaret Mitchell. I agree that it is a book that grips you. My mother took me to see the movie when I was 12 or 13 and I liked it but didn't think it lived up to the hype about it. So I decided to read the book and I did. I think I devoured it in three or four days. I read it many times after that. It along with To Kill A Mockingbird and A Tree Grows in Brooklyn became my favorite books of all time (at least at that point in my life.) An interesting thing I found out about Margaret Mitchell is that she was good friends with another woman author, who also won the Pulitzer, Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings. I am a huge fan of Rawlings too.
Judy wrote: "Angela wrote: "it is a book which grips you and its just one you can not put down. I have history with this book. My grandmother was Margaret Mitchell's bFF. My grandfather was a journalist at the ..."That's hilarious! Three days, whew that's really quick but I totally get it bc it's a really engaging book! I was so surprised - usually old books are a little bit harder to get through but it got me hooked, man. I read through the first two parts in a week, it was so interesting! (Though this is my first time reading it so maybe the second go-round will take me longer.)
Jazzy wrote: "Actually the most popular book world wide for over 50 years is The Qur'an"huh, I didn't know that...is that like a statistic of how many have sold or something? I didn't know religious books counted for popularity, but I always thought the Bible had the most sold copies, followed by Agatha Christie.
Mod
I thought the same thing, Beth. I assume it has more to do securing ownership of property. These people were always thinking multiple generations ahead.
Daniel and Beth observed that Scarlet was 16 and the twins were 19.I met my wife at 16. She was 19 when we married, I was 20. Yesterday was our 48th anniversary.
Mod
I met my wife at 16. She was 19 when we married, I was 20. Yesterday was our 48th anniversary."
Congratulations 🎊 Enjoy Reading, 📙
Paul wrote: "Daniel and Beth observed that Scarlet was 16 and the twins were 19.I met my wife at 16. She was 19 when we married, I was 20. Yesterday was our 48th anniversary."
Congrats!
Mod
I understand the severity of the first offense, but I do not understand what is "unpardonable" about a guy selling his slaves to slave traders. Can someone explain this to me?
Obviously, I do not condone any of this, but I would like to do know for the sake of the story.
Just starting the book today and this sentence really stood out - "war was men's business, not ladies', and they took her attitude as evidence of her femininity." Really exemplifies "The Cult Of True Womanhood" standards women were expected to live up to e.g purity, piety, submissiveness and domesticity.
Mod
I understand the severity of the fir..."
Their slaves where their property and considered part of who they where as land owners. It would be considered offsensive to your social standing to sell what is loyal to you to someone below your social class. Enjoy Reading, 📗
Finished Part 1 last night. I didn't mean to read so fast but the book just pulled me in.I love the writing. Mitchell's description is so vivid. Can't say I'm loving Scarlett although I sympathize with her as a woman born before her time. I don't really care for any other characters either - maybe Melanie Wilkes a little.
Mar, I’m about to start part two. I am amazed at the historical info she provides. For example, the history of Atlanta. It is shocking about the attitude to slavery. I am liking the novel! Tom
Hello Everyone, I am currently on chapter three of Gone with the Wind, and although I am enjoying the book so far, I think it is essential to educate ourselves on all parties affected in this novel. I am having some difficulties reading some of the racist languages in this book and thought it might be helpful to share some important key terms and definitions that may answer some questions others may have and help us all become well-informed readers. I will be reading this book from a feminist perspective; however, I have studied African American history/literature and will be keeping that perspective in mind as well.
Chattel slavery – This particular form of slavery existed in the Western hemisphere (Europe, North America, the Caribbean, and South America) from the early 1500s to the mid-1860s. Chattel means property; therefore, enslaved Africans were not considered human beings. They were only seen as the property of their owners. Although various systems of servitude date back to ancient times, chattel slavery is the most dehumanizing form of slavery that has ever existed. Visit the following web page to see images of the torture devices used to subjugate and dehumanize Africans during the chattel slavery era:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Slave...
Colonization – Colonization is the process of bringing a foreign settler population into a country to dominate and oppress the native population of that country. European settlers colonized the nations of Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Caribbean from the 1500s to the 1900s.
Dehumanization – This is the process of denying a group of people’s humanity by portraying them as sub-human, animal-like, or evil. Dehumanization also occurs when a people’s culture and historical contributions are erased, so that they may be perceived as uncivilized and savage. Historically, people of African descent have been dehumanized by the legacy of chattel slavery, and by modern-day racist stereotypes and practices.
Emancipation – is the process of being freed from slavery. In 1863 President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which granted freedom to enslaved Africans in the United States.
Negro – In the late 1490s and 1500s Spanish slavers coined this term to describe Africans and Native Americans who were slaves or indentured servants. From the 1700s to the 1950s, however, the term became exclusively associated with people of African descent. During the Civil Rights and Black Power Movements, many activists, including Malcolm X, rejected the term because of its historical connection to African subjugation during chattel slavery. The term, “Negro,” is no longer used to refer to Black people.
people of color – This term is used to describe racial and ethnic minorities in the United States, i.e., African Americans, Arab Americans, Asian Americans, Caribbean-Americans, Latin Americans, Muslim Americans, and Native Americans.
Reconstruction – Reconstruction describes the fourteen years, immediately following the Civil War (between 1863 and 1877) when the federal government intervened to rebuild the South. During Reconstruction, several significant constitutional amendments were passed to grant citizenship rights to newly freed slaves. The thirteenth amendment (1865) made chattel slavery illegal; the fourteenth amendment (1868) provided equal protection under the law to African Americans; the fifteenth amendment (1870) granted African American men the right to vote. However, these amendments made social and political progress for African Americans nothing more than an illusion because several restrictive measures were put in place to prevent African Americans from exercising their citizenship rights. The Black Codes, the grandfather clause, literacy tests, poll taxes, and the sharecropping system. These restrictive measures, which were implemented from the late 1860s to the 1960s, legalized institutional racism within American society. In addition to these social, political, and economic restrictions, the Ku Klux Klan was formed in 1865 when they began committing countless acts of lynching and anti-black violence in the South and, later, throughout the country.
Scientific racism – White supremacist beliefs are based on the principles of scientific racism, a false Western ideology that divides races into “superior” (European) and “inferior” (African, Asian American, Latin American, Native American, etc.) racial groups. Scientific racism was used to justify chattel slavery and imperialism from the 1500s to the 1900s since prominent Western philosophers, like David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Thomas Jefferson, and Georg Hegel, wrote influential texts that falsely depicted people of color as racially inferior to Europeans and European-Americans. These Western thinkers also labeled people of color as incapable of governing themselves; therefore, European countries created empires in Africa, Asia, and Latin America through imperial and colonial rule, to oppress the native populations and exploit the natural resources in these regions.
The Western image of Africa – Several prominent eighteenth- and nineteenth-century European and American philosophers (David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Georg Hegel, and Thomas Jefferson) created a false Western image of Africa to justify chattel slavery and promote the myth of white/European racial superiority and Black/African inferiority. These thinkers’ laid the foundation for anti-black racism by denying ancient Africa’s pivotal role in the development of Western civilization, and by transforming the African into the sub-human Negro slave. This false and destructive image of Africa and Africans continues to dehumanize Black people because it promotes the false notion of African savagery, inferiority, and ahistoricality (the absence of history).
Mod
I understand the seve..."
La Tonya wrote: "Daniel wrote: ""Old Angus had never munumitted a single slave and had never committed the unpardonable social breach of selling some of his negroes to passing slave traders"
I understand the seve..."
Thank you for clearing that up!
I was 13 when I first read GWTW almost 50 years ago. At that time I guess I took it at face value. Reading it again now I feel very differently about it, and I have a strange idea. I have done a little online research and I have not found anyone else who proposes my idea so I am probably wrong. But...In Faulkner's Absalom, Absalom!, Quentin Compson's roommate asks him, "Why do you hate the South?"
What if GWTW is Margaret Mitchell's answer to that question? Her descriptions of Southern manhood are not really all that flattering, and Mitchell herself seems much more a Melanie Wilkes than a Scarlett. She had a husband who was called effeminate as Ashley was.
Anyway, it's just a thought.
Mod
Mod
I like how the author tells you early on who really runs Tara👩💪
Mod
Mary wrote: "I was 13 when I first read GWTW almost 50 years ago. At that time I guess I took it at face value. Reading it again now I feel very differently about it, and I have a strange idea. I have done a li..."My father knew Miss Peggy and her husband Mr March and so I asked him what kind of man Mr March was and he did not think he was effiminate. If you really want to know about Margaret Mitchell. THere are some really good biographies. She based Rhett on a former suiter somewhat but not fully.
Mary wrote: "I was 13 when I first read GWTW almost 50 years ago. At that time I guess I took it at face value. Reading it again now I feel very differently about it, and I have a strange idea. I have done a li..."You have stated that Ms Mitchell stated that she was a Melanie. I think she strived to be a Melanie yet was so much closer to the extrovert Scarlett. Miss Peggy was known as a flirt and she has written that she thought that Melanie was the ideal Southern woman and she wrote the book based on Melanie being the heroine yet the character of Scarlett just grew and grew. By the way during the writing of the book Scarlett was known by another name. Pansy HAHAHA
I understand that many of the readers on here are upset with the writing of slavery and the thoughts of the whites in the book. REMEMBER this was written from around 1921-1933 because Ms. Mitchell took over 10 years to write this book. Actually every single chapter has 2-4 different variations which she kept in manilla envelopes. My father said that since they were poor during the depression that she had those manilla envelopes stacked with tea towels on them. He and his older brother would sit on them while she told stories about the Civil War.
Daniel wrote: "Another interesting point thus far in the story: Everyone had someone to look down on to legitimize their own existence. For example, the wealthy living on the coast compared to the people living i..."this phenomenon happens even today. Look at how the white poor of today actually treat the people of color and all immigrants. Remember that even Scarlett with her Irish Ancestry actually is considered lower in status
Angela wrote: "You have stated that Ms Mitchell stated that she was a Melanie. I think she strived to be a Melanie yet was so much closer to the extrovert Scarlett. Miss Peggy was known as a flirt and she has written that she thought that Melanie was the ideal Southern woman and she wrote the book based on Melanie being the heroine yet the character of Scarlett just grew and grew. By the way during the writing of the book Scarlett was known by another name. Pansy HAHAHA"I don't think I said that Ms. Mitchell called herself a Melanie, that was purely my take. Interesting that she wanted to be a Melanie. Anyway she certainly did not share Scarlett's disdain of book learning.
I did know about Scarlett's original name being Pansy. Funny.
Mod
Daniel wrote: ""Old Angus had never munumitted a single slave and had never committed the unpardonable social breach of selling some of his negroes to passing slave traders" I understand the severity of the fir..."
It was probably considered inhumane to sell slaves to slave traders. It is maybe hard for us to think that plantation owners would have a code of honor in the treatment of slaves but I think that some may have had one. I have read the Slave Narratives from Alabama. During the great Depression the WPA or CCC sent out journalists to interview former slaves who were rapidly dying off. Most of the narratives I read did not recount brutal treatment by the slave owners to the slaves. The former slaves were probably reluctant to totally reveal their experiences. There were a few former slaves who talked about being beaten but they were in the minority. But an almost universal comment that was made was the separation of slaves from their mothers at very young ages. You read repeatedly "that was the last time I saw my mother" . Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi were the deep south states and had huge plantations for cotton growing. A lot of slaves in the slave narratives I read were sold from Virginia or the Carolinas "down river" to Alabama. I think Mitchell is saying that no decent plantation owner would sell a slave and separate them from their families. I don't believe that was actually true in practice. Some slave owners were probably more humane than others but I'm not sure that this amounted to them not selling slaves to slave traders when they were desperate for cash.
"Ellen's life was not easy, nor was it happy, but she did not expect life to be easy, and, if it was not happy, that was woman's lot. It was a man's world, and she accepted it as such. The man owned the property, and the woman managed it. The man took the credit for the management, and the woman praised his cleverness, The man roared like a bull when a splinter was in his finger, and the woman muffled moans of childbirth, lest she disturb him. Men were rough of speech and often drunk. Women ignored the lapses of speech and put the drunkards to bed without bitter words. Men were rude and outspoken, women were always kind, gracious and forgiving" (Chapter 3). Mitchell is doing a great job of capturing women's oppression through Ellen's character and reinforcing societal norms/female expectation through Scarlett. Gerald, being bothered at having to console his daughter during a time of crisis/heartbreak and resenting her for not going to Ellen with her problems, speaks volumes.
What do people think about how enslaved African-Americans are being represented and portrayed in this story?
Angela wrote: "I understand that many of the readers on here are upset with the writing of slavery and the thoughts of the whites in the book. REMEMBER this was written from around 1921-1933 because Ms. Mitchell ..."This is my first time reading this book, and it is a classic for a reason. Mitchell's writing and narration style are beautiful, however, in 2019 I don't think we can excuse or justify problematic themes, behavior or language used in this book due to when it was written or what this story captures which is ultimately the attitudes of white Americans in the South pre/post civil war. Discussing these things should not take away from the enjoyment or beauty of the book but instead make us all more educated and informed readers. Happy Reading!
Mod
I love reading these tidbits about your history with GWTW 😃It must feel odd to have a personal familial connection to such a popular book.
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@twice_baked We can do it mate!