Catcher in the Rye - Chapters 1-9

[Alana]

Please discuss chapters 1-9 here.

[Cosmic]

"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the first place, that stuff bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece if I told anything pretty personal about them."


Usually the first sentence in a book is one of the most important. What does this sentence tell you? Don't read my spoiler till you really think about it.

(view spoiler)[

David Copperfield
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/766/76...

This is the beginning of David Copperfield:

"Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show. To begin my life with the beginning of my life, I record that I was born (as I have been informed and believe) on a Friday, at twelve o'clock at night. It was remarked that the clock began to strike, and I began to cry, simultaneously."

Salinger tells you upfront that this is not the purpose of The Catcher in the Rye

But many study the Catcher like they are suppose to analyse Holden. I don't think this is the true intent of the author. I believe he had something else in mind.

One thing that we know about Salinger is that he served in WW2.

Salinger was assigned to a counter-intelligence division, for which he used his proficiency in French and German to interrogate prisoners of war.[34] In April 1945 he entered a liberated concentration camp, probably one of Dachau's sub-camps.[34] Salinger earned the rank of Staff Sergeant[35] and served in five campaigns.[36] Salinger's experiences in the war affected him emotionally. He was hospitalized for a few weeks for combat stress reaction after Germany was defeated,[37][38] and he later told his daughter: "You never really get the smell of burning flesh out of your nose entirely, no matter how long you live."[34]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._...

Salinger had an interest in espionage and spying.
I propose that he used this knowledge and his skill as a writer to write a book that was more than a story about teenage angst. I hope that you will be inspired to discover what hidden meanings are embedded in The Catcher in the Rye.

Since Salinger advice to Maynard was, "Sooner or later you need to soberly consider whether what you write is serving any purpose but to serve your own ego."Joyce MaynardAt Home in the World

I believe that I can show you that Salinger wanted to serve humanity by exposing what he knew about war and power. He did this through intertextuality.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intert...

"Intertextuality is the shaping of a text's meaning by another text. Intertextual figures include: allusion, quotation, calque, plagiarism, translation, pastiche and parody.[1][2][3] An example of intertextuality is an author’s borrowing and transformation of a prior text or to a reader’s referencing of one text in reading another."

It can have many meanings. It doesn't have to be as concrete as a symbol or a word.

We find a hint at this in our Protagonist name.
HOLDEN CAULFIELD

HOLDEN

In 1908 it moved into the automotive field, before becoming a subsidiary of the United States-based General Motors (GM) in 1931. After becoming a subsidiary of GM, the company was named General Motors-Holden's Ltd,

The Great Depression led to a substantial downturn in production by Holden, from 34,000 units annually in 1930 to just 1,651 units one year later.[11] In 1931 General Motors purchased Holden Motor Body Builders and merged it with General Motors (Australia) Pty Ltd to form General Motors-Holden's Ltd (GM-H).[12]

However, World War II delayed car production with efforts shifted to the construction of vehicle bodies, field guns, aircraft and engines.[15] Before the war ended, the Australian Government took steps to encourage an Australian automotive industry.[18] Both GM and Ford provided studies to the Australian Government outlining the production of the first Australian-designed car. Ford's proposal was the government's first choice, but required substantial financial assistance. GM's study was ultimately chosen because of its low level of government intervention.[19]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Hol...

Some people may say that I am making this up. Perhaps, but let's look at the second part of Holden's name:

Caul-field

http://www.scrabblefinder.com/ends-wi...
The top scramble word that ends in field is "battlefield".

Caul is described for us in the fourth paragraph in the book mentioned in the first sentence of The Catcher in the Rye

"I was born with a caul, which was advertised for sale, in the newspapers, at the low price of fifteen guineas. Whether sea-going people were short of money about that time, or were short of faith and preferred cork jackets, I don't know; all I know is, that there was but one solitary bidding, and that was from an attorney connected with the bill-broking business, who offered two pounds in cash, and the balance in sherry, but declined to be guaranteed from drowning on any higher bargain. Consequently the advertisement was withdrawn at a dead loss—for as to sherry, my poor dear mother's own sherry was in the market then—and ten years afterwards, the caul was put up in a raffle down in our part of the country, to fifty members at half-a-crown a head, the winner to spend five shillings. I was present myself, and I remember to have felt quite uncomfortable and confused, at a part of myself being disposed of in that way. The caul was won, I recollect, by an old lady with a hand-basket, who, very reluctantly, produced from it the stipulated five shillings, all in halfpence, and twopence halfpenny short—as it took an immense time and a great waste of arithmetic, to endeavour without any effect to prove to her. It is a fact which will be long remembered as remarkable down there, that she was never drowned, but died triumphantly in bed, at ninety-two."

A caul or cowl (Latin: Caput galeatum, literally, "helmeted head") is a piece of membrane that can cover a newborn's head and face.[1] Birth with a caul is rare, occurring in fewer than 1 in 80,000 births. The caul is harmless and is immediately removed by the physician or midwife upon delivery of the child.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caul

We hold in our hands a book called The Catcher In The Rye. The protagonist is going to lead us on this trip revealing to us something that is hidden. If we possess what is hidden it may be a charm that can save us from "drowning"...or going over the cliff...or some other unforeseen hidden danger. (hide spoiler)]

[Cosmic]

Page 1 ."I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around last Christmas just before I got pretty run-down and had to come out here and take it easy."

(view spoiler)[
Christmas 1941 was when Japan attacked pearl harbor and Hitler declared war with the US.

I think this refers to a movie called
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ILVSI... (hide spoiler)]

[Alana]

Some great starter questions and thoughts, Cosmic! I will be starting this one this weekend, I unfortunately got a little (a lot?) behind in my reading this month.

[Jennifer]

I really need to re-read this book. Haven't read it since HS.

[Cosmic]

Jennifer wrote: "I really need to re-read this book. Haven't read it since HS."

Just like Salinger's person was a recluse so was his meaning and passion hidden in this book. I am always bothered by things when I think I lost them. In the Catcher I thought I hadn't gotten the meaning to the ducks. Like losing something in the house I had to find the meaning and this led me on the quest of understanding the Catcher. If you read the book carefully you will see that he is not talking about all the ducks or all the ducks in Central Park. A map or wiki is a tremendous help.

[Cosmic]

My brother and all.
Page 1
(view spoiler)[

On the first page of the Catcher in the Rye we are introduced to three people in Holden's family. His mother and father, whom he says if he ever said anything about them they would have "about two hemorrhages a piece.

He also introduces us to his brother D.B., who he says is his "brother and all". Now I am maintaining that Holden represents a stock in the stock market. That stock is GM, because GM bought the Holden plant in 1930 when they were in financial trouble and then used that factory to start making war related items.

D.B. in this allegorical sense would be....
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=db

He made his money after writing a book of SHORT stories.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_...

The one that Holden like best was called The Secret GOLD-fish. This was also the title of the book.

Secret means:
1 a : kept from knowledge or view : hidden
b : marked by the habit of discretion : closemouthed
c : working with hidden aims or methods : undercover (a secret agent)
d : not acknowledged : unavowed (a secret bride)
e : conducted in secret (secret trial)
2 : remote from human frequentation or notice : secluded
3 : revealed only to the initiated : esoteric
4 : designed to elude observation or detection (a secret panel)
5 : containing information whose unauthorized disclosure could endanger national security — compare confidential, top secret

Goldfish symbolizes: http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld...
According to Feng Shui, a fish represents wealth and prosperity because the actual word in Chinese for fish, in Pinyin: yú, 魚, also translates to “abundance” 裕 Pinyin: yù.

"I mean that's all I told D.B. about, and he's my brother and all. He's in Hollywood. That isn't too far from this crumby place, and he comes over and visits me practically every week end. He's going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe. He just got a Jaguar. One of those little English jobs that can do around two hundred miles an hour. It cost him damn near four thousand bucks. He's got a lot of dough, now. He didn't use to. He used to be just a regular writer, when he was home. He wrote this terrific book of short stories, The Secret Goldfish, in case you never heard of him. The best one in it was "The Secret Goldfish." It was about this little kid that wouldn't let anybody look at his goldfish because he'd bought it with his own money. It killed me. Now he's out in Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even mention them to me. "


D.B. drives a Jaguar. A jaguar is at the top of the food chain.
One of those English jobs. Hmmmm very interesting watch this film about Diana:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=l...

Not sure if this is related...it could be if Diana was induced to go into labor.
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vide...
Anyway....If Holden is a stock on the stock exchange then Hollywood and the Stock Exchange are very close to each other.

"Now D.B. is out in Hollywood being a prostitute and all."

In The Seven Pillars of Wisdom we have a definition of a prostitute: (This is a normal thing that Salinger did. He created allusions that were referenced in other works...)

"What now looks wanton or sadistic seemed in the field inevitable, or just unimportant routine.
"Blood was always on our hands we were licensed to it. Wounding and killing seemed ephemeral pains, so very brief and sore was life with us. With the sorrow of living so great, the sorrow of punishment had to be pitiless. We lived for the day and died for it. When there was reason and desire to punish we wrote our lesson with gun or whip immediately in the sullen flesh of the sufferer, and the case was beyond appeal. The desert did not afford the refined slow penalties of court and gaols(prison).
"Pray God that men reading the story will not, for the love of the glamour of strangeness, go out prostitute themselves and their talents in serving another race.
"A man who gives himself to be a possession of aliens leads a Yahoo life, having battered his soul to a brute master. He is not of them. He may stand against them, persuade himself of a mission, bait and twist them into something which they of their own accord, would not have been. Then he is exploiting his old environment to press them out of theirs. Or after my model, he may imitate them so well that they spuriously imitate him back again. Then he is giving away his own environment: pretending to theirs and pretences are hollow, worthless things. In neither case does he do a thing of himself, nor a thing so clean as to be his own (without thought of converse), letting them take what action or reaction they please from the silent example."
This reminds me of
The Century Of The Self. Here is a link to the trailer. The series is a BBC documentary that is five hours long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_YLy6...
Here is a review of it:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-ce... (hide spoiler)]

[Alana]

Cosmic wrote: ""If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had..."

So I finally cracked this one open today and read that first sentence, and my honest thought was "Wow, this is going to be a young adult novel where the author just complains about everything the entire time and actually makes Divergent or the Hunger Games look interesting." Which is not a compliment. What I've heard from other groups is that if you read it as a teen, the book really speaks to you, but if you read it as an adult, not so much. Your thoughts? I'm curious how I feel as I go on, but after the first sentence, I'm already inclined not to continue! :(

[Trudy]

I read it a few months ago and didn't like it. I am halfway through with getting my kids through their teen years. I didn't find it enjoyable to read the angsty inner thoughts of a teen as I cope with the real thing.

[Cosmic]

Alana wrote: "Cosmic wrote: ""If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all ..."

Trudy wrote: "I read it a few months ago and didn't like it. I am halfway through with getting my kids through their teen years. I didn't find it enjoyable to read the angsty inner thoughts of a teen as I cope w..."

Well I think that Salinger has written a book with a kind of built in sifter. It is kinda like he wants to turn off people that are not open minded. I really didn't like the Catcher the first time I read it. But I found a teenager that did. Now I was first recommended to read this book because I hated school. I hated school so much that I had always planned to homeschool my children since before having them and I ended up UNSCHOOLING them. So it wasn't this that bother me about the book.

The swearing and God name in vain bothered me greatly! But I figured that he was trying to push one group away and attract another group. But the group that couldn't handle the swear words probably couldn't be honest at the hypocrisy that he was trying to crack open.

I believe the book to be cleverly cloaked as "teenage angst" but really it is an allegory about War. Because I have found so many references and because it was a subject that Salinger should have felt passionate about.

He had a traumatic experience in WW2...look up Salinger on Wikipedia.

Now if you read everything from that point of view you will find, as I did an allegory in the story The Catcher In The Rye.

But why write a teenager angst story on top of the allegory. For the same reasons a lot of children allegories are written with adult themes. Because what they had to say was not popular. And you have to remember that the PR or propaganda machines were running on both sides of the Atlantic. An important part of war is to build an army of volunteers. Salinger did not volunteer...but many did.

So my advice is to read it once to see all the different themes and see if they really fit your idea of a classic. Then to ask yourself why or why not? And then to ask yourself what were the ducks about? What was the carousel about? And the movies/star and book referenced in the book? If you can't understand what they had to do with the storyline then you haven't understood Salinger's meaning for writing the book.

Also look at when he mentions Romeo and Juliet and ask yourself why does he love that character over say Romeo or Juliet? Or why Eustacia Vye in The Return of The Native?

There is a lot to learn in this book and many will not want to digest it. So be it. It is your loss. But I valued the education that Salinger got over the one that my parents could afford and believed that he had a different world view...an elite one.

It is for the research that I have done on my own that has made this book become real.

Another book that is an allegory that has adult themes but in a children type setting....is Bambi

This was also a banned book. When Holden talks about his hunting hat I think he is alluding to Bambi. The whole book is an allusion or an allegory to reveal Salinger's view of war.

He says that "he is illiterate but he reads a lot." Well you may read a lot and not know how to read and may remain illiterate. Another words there are different levels of reading. You may pick the first or second level...but to be literate in reading the Catcher you will have to choose the third as outlined inHow to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading

As far as reading this during the time that you are raising teenagers. That is when I read it. I think raising teenagers is more about you growing up and realizing that you have to give them space. You have raised them for the most part. They are who they are going to be. You can simply facilitate but you can't control or you will lose control. They are a person. It is like I told one lady. When your child began to walk you thought great I don't have to carry them. But then you learned it wasn't so great because they weren't going to go where you told them to.

You need to read Bambi...maybe before the Catcher then come back to it...if you found the Catcher that distasteful. It really took about four read throughs in a row till I didn't even hear the swear words or the Lord's name in vain...but then I could hear what he was saying.

Perhaps this is the way it also was with my children and it helped me hear them as well.

[Alana]

I'm finally to chapter 3 and found the opening sentence very interesting: "I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life."

So, from page 16 (at least in my copy), he's already telling us that, while this is his story, he's not someone to be believed. He's a compulsive liar (which of course he could be lying about, lol). I'll have that in the back of my head as I continue in the story.

And then he goes on to list all of these books an authors. Made me think of The Perks of Being a Wallflower and The Silver Linings Playbook, neither of which I cared for all that much, mostly because of the similar angsty-feel to them. Makes me wonder how much both of those books ripped off this one, or if they are different enough to justify a whole new book.