Caramelo - Part 3 & Whole Book (May 2019)

[Marc]

Use this thread to discuss Part 3 and the book as a whole.

[Hugh]

I have now finished the book, and enjoyed it overall. I still think the 80% estimate for the amount of Spanish translated immediately is too high (admittedly there were words that were translated and then freely used later, and I recognised a few of these). I didn't feel my lack of Spanish stopped me enjoying it, and I certainly learned a lot more about Mexican history. My review

[Bretnie]

What are people's thoughts on the title, Caramelo? The word came up a lot in different contexts, which I enjoyed.

[Lily]

Hugh wrote: "I have now finished the book, and enjoyed it overall. I still think the 80% estimate for the amount of Spanish translated immediately is too high (admittedly there were words that were translated a..."

Hugh -- do you see any culture clash(es) being well explored here?

Specifically, I am thinking of clashes with cultures wherein the authority figures (whether paternal or maternal) at least attempt to punish if they perceive the "truth" is being replaced by "lies", whether "healthy lies" or not. But, other cultural clashes as well, even simply such as confusions caused across language differences.

(My mind jumps back to the days when I read Monica McGoldrick's Ethnicity... and came face-to-face with my own Scandinavian-German-British legacies. Now I find my very family circle widening to include Latino and India Indian influences, let alone the country in which I live. I still have to deal with Cisneros. I am curious as to what my reactions will be. )

[Bretnie]

Or where the truth paints a harsh image of their family...

[Hugh]

Cisneros presents truth in a variety of ways. The father is seen lying for social gain, and explains this away as healthy lies, whereas the grandmother seems keener to forget the less savoury elements of her past. I didn't feel conflicts were the drivers here.

[Marc]

What are people's thoughts on the title, Caramelo? The word came up a lot in different contexts, which I enjoyed."
Great question, Bretnie! I tried to dogear the passages where the word was used and I still need to go back through them all, but I liked how the word and color are woven throughout the story from skin color (first mentioned as our dear narrator marvels at Candelaria's skin in Part I) to the grandmother's prized rebozo. It seems like both a marker and celebration of culture and difference; whereas, darker skin usually equals lower status/mistreatment/etc., Cisneros seems to celebrate and elevate the color through Lala.

Prior to reading, the title, for me personally, evoked the notion of caramel, which I associate with sweetness, dessert, and a kind of light-to-dark coppery brown color. It always seems like something that is swirled or coupled with other things to make them better. But also something sticky--next to impossible to separate/remove once experienced.

Your thoughts, Bretnie, and other readers?

[Marc]

Lily, There were some modest generational clashes (elders admonishing their children, mothers expecting the fierce filial loyalty they were accustomed to in the past, etc.), but nothing major culturally here. As Hugh and Bretnie mentioned, the lies in this story are about either telling a good story (in Lala's case) or about focussing/embellishing the happy/good memories (in Awful Grandmother's case). Lying is sort of embraced as a central part of being human, surviving, and finding happiness/joy. Along the way, you certainly get some cultural/historical revisions (often in footnotes) where the Mexican versions of history is presented in juxtaposition to the American versions.

[Bretnie]

Marc, I had the same image of caramel with the title going in, and I think she uses Caramelo in that way somewhere in the novel, right? But using it as a way to describe skin color was interesting. I hadn't realized how much darkness can be a point of judgment in Mexican culture.

And dang my memory, is Caramelo someone's name also?

[Lily]

Marc wrote: "...nothing major culturally here...."

I have barely started reading, but I am finding the so-negative nicknames jarring. They may not be specifically about a particular ethnic culture, but even already they do speak "culture" issues to me.

But I shall try to be patient and see if a literary, story-telling view is more appropriate than cultural differentiation.

[Mark]

Um, how about the nicknames in The Sopranos? Uncle Junior and Big Pussy? In real life, a crewmate on a tall ship was known as Spike, for the marlinspike he dropped from aloft into the deck.

[Bretnie]

One thing that I struggled with by the end of the book was the many changes in themes and what I felt the book was ultimately about. I'm not sure why I struggled with it - maybe just because it was a long book?

I really enjoyed the big-picture story of this Mexican American family, just being on the periphery of the family and the narrator's experience growing up in this interesting life and culture. But was it really her story? Then it becomes the grandmother's story. Then focuses on her parents at the end.

I don't know if I have a question, just a feeling that it dragged at the end when I started to lose focus on where the story was ultimately going.

Maybe my question is, with the big family reunion for the anniversary party at the end, how does that tie the rest of the book together? I think I read the end in too much of a rush to let the meaning really sink in.

[Mark]

Bretnie

The title, for me, was a teasing hint of the subject of the book - a teasing look at many ways of "being brown" for Mexican Americans.

The end was fun, but a little disappointing; it felt like Cisneros wanted something fun to wrap up with so she could finish the job. I would have liked her to bring it up to her present; why would she say it was getting written?

[Elaine]

I found the tone at the beginning of Part 3 interesting. This was no longer the childish enthusiasm or unquestioning idealism of the first two parts, but things began to get real. At one point, it felt somewhat ominous. But them things took another turn and the wild whirlwind kicked up again. The ending did very much feel like a telenovela. While I enjoyed parts of this novel, overall I was somewhat disappointed. I also gave it 3 stars.

[Kathleen]

I'm nearing the end, and really enjoying this.

I have two thoughts on the title. One is jus that it refers to caramels, which are taffy-like, and like taffy, she is stretching the truth into a story here.

The other thought is also related to storytelling. The shawl, the rebozo, is caramel colored. When we say a caramel rebozo, we are invoking something "like" the color of the rebozo, a caramel. The color name conveys the essence in the same way the story--even if not all true--conveys the essence of what happened within this family.

[Bretnie]

Thanks for that perspective Kathleen! I like your interpretations of the title!

[Marc]

Curious how everyone felt about the structure of the book. Did the short chapters help the book feel any shorter or longer? Did they break up the flow of the story or add to it for you as readers?

[Bretnie]

Marc wrote: "Curious how everyone felt about the structure of the book. Did the short chapters help the book feel any shorter or longer? Did they break up the flow of the story or add to it for you as readers?"

The chapters definitely kept me reading faster. With longer chapters, I'm more likely to put the book down when I get to the end of a chapter, but with uber-short chapters like this one and the interesting format, it kept me wanting to read "just one more chapter."

[Elaine]

Yes, I agree. The short chapters certainly helped maintain the momentum of the book.

[Hugh]

No problem with the short chapters, if anything the longer chapters with footnotes were more of a problem, at least for the reading flow...

[Mark]

I liked the short chapters, each with a clear focus. In a similar way, the title made many appearances in the story, from candy, to rebozo, to skin color.

I'll be reading more of her work...

[Marc]

I also thought the short chapters worked really well. It's probably been more than 10 years between my first reading of this book and this recent re-read. I have to agree with many of you that the third section feels somehow less focussed or complete than the other two. That didn't diminish my enjoyment of the read or tarnish the celebratory feel of the writing; it simply didn't feel as strong or complete as the other two sections, but if her intent was to present it as another beginning, a kind of continuation of the next generation's story to come, I suppose that sort of makes sense.

Nothing else she's written has been anywhere as close to the length of this book. I believe it may have started out as short stories, but I'm having trouble tracking down where I came up with that notion.

[Kathleen]

I generally love short chapters--they really suit my available reading time. I think they were appropriate for this book, because it was kind of a collection of vignettes rather than a linear plot.

I actually had more trouble with the second section. It was more focused, but it seemed to drag and confuse me at times. The first and third felt more like Lala's impressions--childish and then with some maturity, and I really enjoyed both.

[Marc]

Short chapters do make for nice stopping points while reading!

There was a lot going on in the second part, so I think it's pretty easy to get confused in terms of characters and timeline.