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Someone has removed "Shortlist" from the shortlisted books for the Man Booker International Prize
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Antonomasia
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Apr 28, 2019 02:28AM
The Booker Prizes are always discussed in terms of Longlist and Shortlist, and it is very frustrating to see that this alteration has been made (which will of course take time to correct).
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Yes. I once even had the shortlisted books for every year separated as per the manual and someone merged them. I've given up on maintaining the Booker.
You can see on the librarian edits who has done it and flag if you wish.
Would it be possible to get some input from Rivka on this please? I did PM the other librarian but no reply so they evidently don't want to get into a discussion. I also don't think it's an appropriate matter to flag as either approach is technically correct. I don't want to end up in an edit war either. But if I input prize shortlists are people just going to come along and alter them to "nominee" with impunity even though that's not how anyone who follows prizes talks about shortlisted books when there's both a longlist and a shortlist?
What I would actually like to see are these changes to the manual, but that is unlikely to happen:- Where the prize has a longlist and shortlist these should be specified in the Category field.
(If a prize has both categories that's always how they are mentioned by award givers, in publishing, by followers etc. If someone said a novel was nominated for a prize one would assume either: the prize only has a shortlist, or the book was merely longlisted not shortlisted and they want to obfuscate that.)
- An end to the practice of keeping shortlists in separate award categories/pages.
(I have not moved these myself though - that is way too much work. And it's also mostly big US prizes it seems to be done for, and I rarely work on those.
If people want to look at books nominated for and awarded a prize, they want to see them in one place - and they should be able to do that on GR, not having to go to Wikipedia or the prize website assuming it has the data.)
(There would be no compulsion to change existing data, as that would be a silly amount of work in many cases, but these would be applied going forward.)
That's all very nice, but we can't keep people from putting Winner in the award name, as in "Winner of the Gobbledygook Award" when there is already a Gobbledygook Award. Sometimes they put Shortlist in the name of the award and so that it looks like it is a winner. And many think Finalists aren't nominees, Finalist sometimes being in the award name too.
I agree if an award is showing (longlist) in the correct place, then having (shortlist) is only logical. I'm also hoping the new librarians manual states that nominee=finalist on GR.
Shortlist has also been removed from books shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize.Where do you find the list of nominees for the two Booker Prizes? I thought they were not published.
What do you do with books which are called in by the judges, as they are not nominees in the usual sense?
Yes, I noticed that around the same time, Val. In GR usage in this context "nominee" means a shortlisted book.
Lists of *submitted* books are not published for the Booker, no - although sometimes a few titles can be gleaned from photos of stacks of books tweeted by judges.
Val's post is a good example of why the usage "nominee" is confusing for people who are used to the media talking about shortlisted books. (And in case anyone is suspicious because I mod a group where she posts, she and I haven't talked about this before at all.)
Thanks Anto. No, we have not talked about it, but I thought that if anyone knew how to get a full list of books submitted / authors nominated for the MBI, it would be you.
See the 2019 MBI thread in M&G for a reply!
Antonomasia wrote: "In GR usage in this context "nominee" means a shortlisted book."This is not correct. Nominee is any book which is not a winner. Some awards have finalists, not shortlists. Others have Hnorable Mention or Honor books. For the Booker and others, it is both longlisted and shortlisted titles.
We try to include a link to the award website, or wikipedia if there is no award website on the GR award page. More information and specifics can usually be found there. I don't GR intended complete information to be available here.
The word Nominee on its own (as opposed to e.g. Nominee for Longlist) usually appears on the Award listing where a prize only has one stage, or it is a shortlist not otherwise specified. I was answering in that vein in order to clarify what is meant by Nominee in the GR listing where it does not have a further description. It was an answer to a specific post in the context of the word Shortlist being removed from listings, rather than a general definition. I rarely deal with US prizes where Honor etc comes up, but am hearing all the time about numerous smaller prizes, often in the UK, where the terms shortlist and longlist are frequently used.
Mod
If an award has a middle tier such as an honor medal or a shortlist and is an award notable enough that other nominees are also listed, the award can be listed as two awards, one for the winner and the longlisted nominees and another for the shortlist.
The application to the Man Booker Prize has always seemed clear to me.
rivka wrote: "The application to the Man Booker Prize has always seemed clear to me. "Quite. And when I spent the better part of 2 months last year separating them, someone merged them.
Thanks for posting on the thread, Rivka. What I was especially looking for is confirmation or otherwise of this:I'm pretty sure that I've seen it said in the past that it is okay to call the books either shortlisted or nominee (with no extra designation) for shortlisted books, where there is a designated shortlist
On similar topics where there are two correct ways of doing things, although I can't be certain it was this one, I've also seen it said that it's not best practice to go round undoing others' work in bulk.
Antonomasia wrote: "On similar topics where there are two correct ways of doing things, although I can't be certain it was this one, I've also seen it said that it's not best practice to go round undoing others' work in bulk."I think that was with series numbering (people adding commas before the series number, and vice versa).
I'd like clarification on this too. I get requests from authors wanting shortlist added to their award. If I add this info I would like it to stay.
