YA LGBT Books discussion
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Self-publishing YA books - can it work?
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I have self-pubbed adult gay romance, and one YA story collection under a pen name.In my experience, some things that are important include
-a really good cover, especially if you're not well-known
-a professional editor/proofreader; if there are errors in the sample you're gong to lose readers right there
-getting out word about the book... that's where I didn't make a lot of effort, truthfully. On the adult side, my self-pubs do well, because I'm known. The YA kind of languishes.
I look forward to hearing from other successful YA authors on this.
This is something I've wanted to learn about. I've been considering self publishing with Amazon Kindle. I've got the first two covered. It's getting the word out that I'm concerned about. I was wondering if anybody knew of good ways to get the word out?
I'm not a successful YA author and I'm still very new to this, but I self published my YA before I submitted it to a publisher, and tbh I had no idea what I was doing publicity wise. And though I have no immediate plans to self pub again I am interested in what others have to say about self publishing. For new authors I think getting the word out and your name recognised are all important. Talking to other authors, contacting review sites if you're unknown, getting popular blogs and reviewers to host you for an interview or a guest post. And then it's just a lot of luck.
The biggest difference I've found to sales (and this would be the same for self pub) is if popular author or reviewer reads and recommends your work, but that's not something you can plan for.
Suki^^
I've been considering self-publishing for two main reasons.First: I hate bureaucracies. Really, I like things simple and easy, and the more they depend just on me, the easier I think they are. I also live in Brazil, but my stories are intended for the US Market, and publishing over the seas is probably trickier with a publisher.
Second: I like the idea of publishing free books, or at least low cost ones, and I don't see much of it with publisher's books. I don't dream of getting rich by writing, I just want my stories to be accessible to the most people. I also don't want to make a career of my writing. I'm an IT professional and I like it. Writing for me is a pleasure and fun. So I want to keep it like that.
Of course, with a Publisher comes the perks of professional editing and all. I want my stories to be well written, finished and edited, and I don't plan (or can!) spend money on it - so I'll just have to work hard and hope some nice friends help me with this part (I'll probably come begging for beta readers at some point :P)
Good luck with it. I get a lot of fun out of my own self-pubs.
Having done both, I think there are very very big pros and cons to each strategy.TRADITIONAL
Pros: media attention, legitimacy, library sales, influence/impact, the money, editorial support, outside revenue streams like major speaking gigs, movie options, etc.
Cons: luck of the draw when it comes to editors, major houses still put LGBT in a "niche" category (and most readers do too), takes forever to be published, and it's often HARD to find the right agent or editor.
SELF-PUBLISHING
Pros: control, speed of publication, immediate access with fans, money (if things line up), actual *access* and opportunity if you're being rejected by agents/publishers.
Cons: cost up front, virtually impossible to get mainstream media coverage unless you're a smash hit (in which case you don't need it), very very difficult to have any sort of major cultural impact or influence, LOTS of work, very hard to establish your own "brand"
Honestly, if I were starting out, I would first try very very hard to be traditionally published, because I do think that makes it soooo much easier to develop a "brand" and accrue followers (and it opens other revenue streams as well). Once you have that platform, things get a lot easier, and you can experiment with self-publishing too.
But building that platform is always hard, hard work, and there doesn't seem to be any shortcuts. Either you're lucky enough to be traditionally published well, or you self-publish and build your platform through sheer grit and determination. (Or you do both as I've tried to do!)
Brent wrote: "Honestly, if I were starting out, I would first try very very hard to be traditionally published, because I do think that makes it soooo much easier to develop a "brand" and..."Wise advices here. You're amazing, btw. I just finished "Poison Oak" yesterday ;P
Iuri wrote: "Brent wrote: "Honestly, if I were starting out, I would first try very very hard to be traditionally published, because I do think that makes it soooo much easier to develop a "brand" and..."Wise..."Thanks, Luri! :-)
I've always gone the traditionally published route. When I started writing (only about four years ago) I had no idea of how to write, format, use proper punctuation...the list goes on. (I could and still can spell well enough, so there is that to consider). I also wrote mainstream (i.e. straight) books, so there was a larger market.Since writing a few F/F novels...and I'm really the odd person out here, as I'm a guy and also straight...don't Taze me!...I've found that, as Brent pointed out, the LGBT market is rather limited. While there are some straight people who don't mind reading M/M or lesfic--hell, if it's well written, I'll read anything except erotica or porno as I'm really not that interested--the majority don't. And among the LGBT set, not many are going to read LGBT works exclusively. So you have to factor that in as well.
As for self-pubbing, while I've not gone that route--yet--and while there's nothing inherently wrong with it, again, as Brent wisely points out, you have to have a fan base in the works, you have to do all the marketing yourself (and anyone who writes in any genre is in the same boat) and you can't really count on lightning striking in a bottle. Add in editing, cover art, formatting, and paying for publishing services if so desired, you're probably not going to be making much money.
If I were you, OP, I'd try very hard to get in with an LGBT outfit that's credible. My publisher (Regal Crest) is not overly large and does mainly lesfic although it does handle other types of LGBT literature, but to me, the covers are first-rate, I've worked with a terrific editor on my Lindsay/Jo trilogy and if I'm lucky I'll be able to work with her again on an adult-oriented F/F thriller, and the owner strikes me as a very conscientious and decent individual. I still have to do a lot of the advertising myself (mainly Facebook and some Tweeting), but I didn't have to worry about formatting or the covers and they've been very upfront with all this time.
Just my thoughts and I wish you well with your writing...
I self-published my YA novel after self-publishing three adult m/m shorter works under a different pen name. I do not believe I'm successful in the traditional sense of the word, but I knew going in that I wasn't likely to reach traditional "success" by going the self-publishing route. I have not engaged in particularly aggressive marketing beyond Goodreads, Twitter and my blog (and I hope those have not been too aggressive). I approached a couple of LGBTQ YA specific blogs regarding reviews, but I found that some of the blogs who specialize in LGBTQ YA limit themselves to mainstream presses and maybe some of the indie presses, but do not review self-published titles. I think that is definitely a large barrier to success.Also, I released my book in e-book format only. The e-book format may be popular with younger people, but self-published e-books are rarely picked up by libraries and young people don't necessarily have the means to purchase e-books on their own without their parents being able to monitor their purchases, which may stop a large percentage of the LGBTQ YA market from procuring the e-books. Not having a paperback book has stopped me from marketing more aggressively to local libraries, but previously I really didn't have time to do that. I hope to do that in the future.
While I personally would never pursue a relationship with any of the Big 5 publishing houses (or any of their many imprints,) I think in the future I may submit something to a genre-specific independent press to see if they have any interest. However, in the end I do love the control I have over my work when I self-publish. For example, when there is a call for e-book donations, as there is right now by #somethingGood (http://governingana.wordpress.com/201...) I can donate without having to get my publisher's permission. I can also give away unlimited numbers of free copies for review purposes or whatever other reasons I want. It's nice to have that option.
I don't know if I would recommend self-publishing in this genre to authors who are doing it to make a living and don't have a lot of time and resources to pursue marketing, but it's nice that this path is available for authors who have slightly different goals.
Having said all that, I sure wouldn't mind if lightening struck in my bottle and my book got picked up for Oprah's Book Club. Just being honest :)
This is a pretty good article on self-publishing (and how the "gold rush" is over). It seems to confuse self-publishing with publishing by an Amazon imprint at time (two very different things), but there are still some good quotes:http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/955...
Thanks for the link!Right now things are a bit in flux as well, while we find out what the true impact of Kindle Unlimited will be. Like Netflicks for movies, it offers subscription pricing for access to a big library, while requiring participating authors to self-pub/release exclusively through Kindle.
In the first couple of months, many authors have noticed modest to severe drops in royalties (I've seen authors claim anything from no change to 90% reduction) probably as readers check out what they can borrow, and hold off on impulse buying. This Amazon innovation may have an impact on where self-pub happens and how the income is generated. How much of an impact remains to be seen.
Brent wrote: "This is a pretty good article on self-publishing (and how the "gold rush" is over). It seems to confuse self-publishing with publishing by an Amazon imprint at time (two very different things), but..."That is a very good article (even with the KDP and Amazon in-house publishing imprint confusion). I think as in any business, authors who expect to make big bucks right out of the gate from self-publishing without doing any work are in for a rude surprise, but the same is true for authors with traditional publishing aspirations. These days publishers offer less and less editing and marketing support to anyone who is not already a proven "bestseller," and most authors can expect very small advances (if any) and low percentage in royalties in exchange for giving up way too many of their rights for way too long. And that's only if they can find an agent and then a publisher who will accept their work, which can take years or forever (after all, there is no guarantee that any book will get "chosen" by a traditional publisher,) all without any income. Self-publishing may not be lucrative at the start (in fact, it may require some up-front cash, which authors could pay out of pocket or raise through various on-line venues such as kick-starter,) but it is faster and it allows the authors to retain control over every aspect of their books, which means they can change things at any time (that extends to fixing errors, changing covers, blurbs, prices, etc.)
The bottom line is there is no "easy" button for successful publishing. There are trade-offs regardless of which path an author pursues. And, of course, there are hybrid authors who do both. The best thing an author can do is arm herself with information and make the decision that she feels is best for her given her circumstances.
Good comments by Brent, but I'd add a codicil to his "needing an agent" remark. Having an agent sounds great, but many of them aren't good, can't place the novels with the Big Six or even a mid-size publisher, and don't do the necessary legwork. That can mean, as he hinted, waiting for a long time...and maybe not finding someone to take on your novel.As for myself, I originally started digital, as I had no luck with agents, and my sister said, "You gotta start somewhere" and I was lucky. My first novel was published digitally about a year after I wrote it. I make no claims of being THE WRITING GOD or anything like that, and truth be known, my first novel was riddled with mistakes...but it's still selling, mainly because the story is a good one. Memo to me: go back in time and fix the editing! :)
With Twisted, the Lindsay/Jo trilogy, and the upcoming What She Saw, all of them went to Regal Crest with no agent. Granted, Regal Crest is a fairly small LGBT publisher, but they do a great job, IMHO in cover art, editing, and proofing. I'd work with them any day of the week.
And I totally agree with Brent's comment of there being no easy button to push or road to follow for publishing success. It takes time, effort, social networking and a lot of luck. And the time factor is a big one. Books can be overlooked at first and then a year later or so...whoa, why haven't I read this one? So keep at it.
It's all about expectations. There IS a market for LGBT YA in the Big Five publishers (unlike when I was trying to publish GEOGRAPHY CLUB in 1998, many editors actively seek out LGBT YA these days). And while advances can be low for a first novel ($10,000 is probably the minimum for a major publisher, with an agent doing the deal, but $50,000 isn't impossible, even for a first book). And if your first book sells or wins awards, that money increases rapidly. And being published by a major publisher brings a lot of other revenue streams: audio, foreign, speaking gigs, etc. It IS possible to make a living with these kinds of deals, even a pretty good one.That said, the competition is INTENSE, even for just getting an agent (which doesn't guarantee a deal anymore). So it's really important to be submitting your best possible work.
And if that first book DOESN'T sell? The Big Five are merciless. Your career may very well be over. And the unfair part is that a book not selling may have more to do with the publisher's mistakes than the authors. (But one can always change one's name!)
It must also be said: there are some stories that are just too fringe or "niche" for the Big Five. They're probably never going to find a home there. I think self-publishing is a GREAT option for those kinds of stories: a way for writer to directly find their intended audience. And as Jesse says, smaller publishers are another really good option. With e-books and social media, it is just so much easier to get the word out, and also to distribute one's books -- to get them directly where they need to go.
Jesse is also right that a good story will always find a home of some sort, whether it's indie, traditional, or small press. People WANT good books! They'll seek them out, and they'll spread the word.
I'm actually more optimistic about publishing and books that I've been in years.
And in terms of LGBT YA, we are SO MUCH BETTER OFF than we were ten years ago. It's night and day.
The funny thing is with the LGBT market, it's a lot more accessible to straight people than it was ten years ago. I say this as a straight guy who also writes lesfic which makes me sort of an oddity here. (I also write straight guy/girl stories). A lot of people I know who are straight--mainly women--have no problem reading about a F/F novel or M/M novel as long as its good. Tastes have changed somewhat, and that means a slightly higher readership for those who write LGBT novels.The advances numbers that Brent puts forth...I'm not so sure about that. I can see some of the big name writers (Rowling, King) getting five or even six-number advances, but up to fifty grand for a relative newcomer even with an agent? Who gets that? (If you know who did, point them my way!)
A couple of the gay presses pay up to 1000 dollars a shot--I think Harmony Ink does--but is that against total sales? I'm not sure. Whatever the case, if the book is good, get it out there and see what happens.
As an aside, as a straight guy I've taken some flack for writing lesfic. So in a way, I guess I'm learning a little about discrimination that the LGBT set faces from mainstream society, although what I've read and had said about me is nowhere near that level, not even close...but it is an eye-opener!
Wow, those advances are a pretty good reason to take a shot at the mainstream. In the adult M/M market, a book that sells 5000 copies (making perhaps $8K in royalties for the author) is considered a very good seller. And no advances. $10,000 is more than 80% of authors make on a novel altogether. Self pub is lower if anything, and I'd imagine that's the case with YA self pub too.So no wonder there's competition.
$50,000 is definitely *possible* for a first gay YA novel (I know for a fact it's happened recently), but yeah, Jesse, it would be very, very rare (it would require a book with strong bestseller and/or movie potential, and also a bidding war, which is basically what happened in the case I know about). My greater point is that traditional publishing is on the way out, but it's not dead yet. There's still gold in them thare hills. As I said before, if I were starting out, I'd at least give it a shot... (with the right kind of book anyway).
Brent, fair enough. I know Blue Is The Warmest Color was a bestselling graphic novel, but I'm not sure which gay YA novel you were referring to.As for traditional publishing being on its way out...doubtful. Even with all the infighting and rivalries and screwing of the authors and so on, it's still THE standard. I have seen nothing to indicate otherwise.
I do expect self-pubbing to increase in the following decade, but there are a lot of kinks that have to be ironed out. You have to think about editing, formatting, and cover art, to name just a few problems, in addition to distribution, if the work is done in paperback form. You also have to figure in a greater amount of slush (or drek, as I prefer it to be called), but this will probably give rise to new jobs within the industry. Still, I hardly expect it to supplant traditional publishing. JMO...
I have no idea about the specifics of publishing, but the library side of things is very interesting at the moment. Subscription services like Scribd and Kindle Unlimited are both intriguing and frightening; it raises questions like: if people are willing to pay that much for book lending, why have we not been charging? (and if the thought of libraries charging is not terrifying to you...) At the same time, Amazon giving the middle finger to the Big 5 is exciting because it could potentially bring book prices lower.But all that aside, what I really came here to say is that anyone who wants to do self publishing should really talk with you your local librarian. Figure out what it takes to get your book on the shelf at your local branch, and supply that if possible. Your library might even have a specific set of shelves just for local authors, and there is nothing better than free exclusive shelf space (except maybe that 50K advance).
That goes for digital publishing, too. The person in charge of curating your library's digital collections does have ways of including non-purchase titles into Overdive, Enki, 3M, etc. so you can get your book into the hands of local readers.
If your reader base grows locally, the library might purchase copies in the future to replace worn copies; could purchase additional copies for more branches and so on. Your local library is also a great place to find beta readers, host a book talk, and do some cheap publicity. So don't forget your library!
Rez wrote: "But all that aside, what I really came here to say is that anyone who wants to do self publishing should really talk with you your local librarian. Figure out what it takes to get your book on the shelf at your local branch, and supply that if possible. Your library might even have a specific set of shelves just for local authors, and there is nothing better than free exclusive shelf space (except maybe that 50K advance). ..."I love libraries. Thanks for reminding us that they are good for more than saving our sanity with free books :)
Self-pub seems to be harder for YA than adult or even New Adult. However, I'd have some success with YA, although it wasn't with LGBT YA. I think my biggest mistake was publishing everything I write under my name. I should've gone with a gender-neutral pen name for my LGBT works. My YA readers usually won't touch my LGBT stuff, and it's harder to market to LGBT readers (who prefer mainly LGBT works) because 4/5 of my pubbed works are hetero. I think it's harder now for new self-pub authors to find an audience. I've seen many bloggers shut down their review services to self-pub/indie authors because while there are self-pub gems, there are also a lot of crappy rocks. In all, it's really a matter of luck and trends.
I definitely think paperback is a must, just in case. Of all my 5 books, my one current LGBT work sells more in paperback than the other 4 non-LGBT YAs do put together. Plus, with YA, you are reaching a younger audience, and it's wrong to assume they're up with technology. They don't have the money for e-readers/tablets, and some parents won't purchase one for them for a number of reasons. I think it's always a good idea to have it in print.
Nikki,Funny you should mention using a different name. I've always used the same name--J.S. Frankel--and that is my real name--for both my hetero books as well as the Lindsay/Jo (lesbian) books. I'm not so famous and maybe I never will be, but I don't have a problem using my real name for anything. Not saying you do, just saying. If your readership is conservative or they have an anti-LGBTQ bias, well, they do, and there's nothing you can do about that. I would hope that people would be a little more open-minded, but sadly, many are not.
In my case, I've had pretty much the same ratio of straight to gay people buying my YA stuff, no matter which orientation the characters had. My wife thinks that's weird for some reason...me, I like to think that I've written something decent that appeals to people.
I would agree that it's harder for YA authors to self-pub and find success. Sure, there are exceptions, but the market right now is glutted. And most of the readers I would venture to say prefer the tried-and-true big name authors (i.e. Veronica Roth) And yes, this hearkens back to a point I made earlier and also what you wrote, a lot of self-pubbed stuff really isn't that good.
The bottom line is this: You have to write a good book first. No natter what genre, no matter what the audience, you have to pen something good. After that, yes, there's a lot of luck along with the networking.
Jesse, I just think I should've branded myself as an LGBT author with one name and published my other stuff under another name. I released 2 YA hetero novels and then my YA M/M. I think it threw some people off since they had branded me as one thing in their minds, so really it was an error on my part.
As far as writing LGBT goes, I sometimes worry about the stigma of a straight female writing homosexual guys. I think that's all in my head, though. I've had plenty of guys who identify as gay who've liked my books and plenty who haven't, as it always goes.
I agree with you completely about the marketplace and how readers sway toward the YA books by big names (books that usually end up as movies and an entire franchise). The one place I've had success in self-pub YA is with my boyband series, and I think I just happened to hit at the right time during the reign of Justin Bieber and One Direction.
Nikki, I can understand how it might have hurt your rep. But I think the error--if there is one--lies with the readers. You're writing a story, with characters, and some will be straight while others won't be. Just the way it is, and hopefully, the readers will take that into account. Lots won't, though, and that is also how it is. As a straight guy, I've also experienced some backlash from some lesbian readers who have stated that they won't read anything written by a guy. Not from many, but some. Still, I haven't changed my name and won't. What for? I don't write erotic novels or pornography. I refuse to, even though it's a viable market. I'm proud of who I am and stand by what I write, for better or worse.
As for the marketplace, if one could anticipate the future trends, they might make a fortune...sadly, I lack that insight. I only want to write good, topical (what I think is topical) stories that appeal to a broad range of people. In order to do that, I find it best to go through the traditional way of doing things.
I think you both have good points about stigma and the gendership of the author and characters. I will admit that I do occasionally make snap decisions about which books to buy based on the author's gender and the gender of the characters in the work. Lucky for me and people who's work I buy, I recognize that that unfortunate prejudice and override it with data and value evaluation.
But that's where it gets complicated.
For me me, I've always been a highly empathetic reader, so when I read a male author doing a female character or vice verse, I can often feel the disconnect. Even my all-time favorite author, his female characters bug me. So then it comes down to the writer's strength; can their plot and writing style carry me through the disconnect?
Other times the writer is so skilled, that it is not an issue at all; the characters feel so genuine that the disconnect doesn't exist (for seldom few writers in my experience).
So for publishing, I think using one's initials or a gender neutral nom de plume would be partially advantageous, if only to eliminate that initial snap reaction. Then it becomes up to the author to exhibit their talent.
As far as my personal experience goes breaking into the YA market when you are self-pub is very hard. You will have t stat promoting your work before it's released and try and obtain a fan following. Not only that, the cover better rock. YA needs covers that catch the eye and then, if you are unknown, you should try and give out your ebook for free or maybe $0.99. (I'm not that much into making money from my work so all of my works are always $0.99)...but if you want to make money, then try: Free...raise it to $0.99 (best if you start that once it has reached good ranking in YA books)..and then when you release your next book you can price it at $0.99 and then increase it from there.Like I said, you will need a devoted fan base before you can even try to increase prices of your book. Once a fan base is obtained you can be sure that those fans will definitely read your next books...it happened with me. The people who read my previous works also read and reviewed my new works as well http://www.barnesandnoble.com/c/a.j.-... ...my latest LGBT/YA mystery The Game Master of Somerville getting the most reviews and I think readers will read the previous works too and await new ones.
The 'big' money is with traditional publishers but that requires a lot of hard work...getting agents, a good deal, and all that. Even then publishers 'might' not be interested in your work if you are thinking of writing a 20+ book series, from an unknown.
Who knows maybe, just maybe, you might make such a name for yourself through self-pub that an agent might contact you...i've heard it happens with some authors.
Don't get 'rejection' from traditional publisher push you down. You can still share your work with the world through self-pub (this gives you a lot of power over your own work) and hopefully everything will work out for you in due time :)
Jesse wrote: "Nikki, I can understand how it might have hurt your rep. But I think the error--if there is one--lies with the readers. You're writing a story, with characters, and some will be straight while othe..."You're 100% correct about erotica & porno being what sells. I've had many author friends say, "We should just write erotica. It's the only way to make enough $ to be a full time author." But I'm also 100% w/you in the fact that I don't write it and will not write it. It's not my thing, and I'll just continue to write the stories that I think matter. If it matters to me, there's gotta be at least one other person out there who needs that book. :)
Also, A.J. is right about marketing. I've found my best success with my YAs has been in pre-publication promo. After querying 2 books, I much prefer self-pub because it works better for me, my routines, and my life outside of being an author. It's really in the marketing, but even then, some luck is required. I've seen books with zero marketing garner agent attention and I've seen books with all the promo in the world just not sell.
Nikki wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Nikki, I can understand how it might have hurt your rep. But I think the error--if there is one--lies with the readers. You're writing a story, with characters, and some will be strai..."I really can't understand the interest people have with reading erotica...some of covers i've seen really aren't that good and the story is just 20,000 to 30,000 words and it still sells like hot cakes with virtually no promotion what so ever...i have nothing against erotica writers...authors write what they want....but for some author (who likes to write YA, crime, etc) just to write erotica for the sake of making money? well to each their own but it's something I won't do....well, then again never say never so, who knows
A.J. wrote: "I really can't understand the interest people have with reading erotica...some of covers i've seen really aren't that good and the story is just 20,000 to 30,000 words and it still sells like hot cakes with virtually no promotion what so ever...i have nothing against erotica writers..."---
I don't get it, either, but to me it's like someone watching porn in the dark hours with the drapes drawn--forbidden fruit and all that.
No, I take that back, it's not like porn. Erotica titillates, while porn goes for the gut, so to speak. (Or other areas...) I've read erotica before and some of it was well written, even funny in some cases, so I won't get into who should write what. Not worth it. We all have to make a living...but even though I could do it, I wouldn't. It's just not me.
I think one of the biggest reasons erotica sells so well online is because there is a huge audience for it, and it's so easy to buy it via e-books. You don't have to walk into a bookstore or feel embarrassed/judged for your purchase. It's very personal and now it's easy to hide. With YA, even though a lot of adults read it, there is also a huge teen audience who don't have the $ to put into books. When they do have $ or gift cards, they usually buy in an actual bookstore or download the big names.
I'd have to agree with Nikki. I remember the days when so-called 'dirty' books were advertised in some magazines and the publishers said they'd be wrapped in brown paper so that the post office wouldn't find out. (Not that I ever bought any of those books, but I digress...)It IS much easier to simply point the cursor and click on your choice. No one knows, and no one has to. As she said, it's personal and easy to hide.
With the YA market, again, I'd have to agree with Nikki's statement when she says younger people don't have the cash to put into buying books. I recently did a giveaway on Facebook with one site and about ninety percent of the people who got my PDF copies of Catnip (straight YA) were under twenty. The others were women who said they were in their forties, and one man who said he was sixty. Go figure.
The thing is, younger people may not have the cash, so they jump at the chance for a freebie--and rightfully so. I'd do the same were I in their position. The hope is, of course, that they'll tell their friends who'll buy the books...but that's not a guarantee. Nothing is.
What are your folks' opinions on alternate revenue models?One idea I'm toying with is just giving away my first YA title for free, then doing something like a Patroen or IndieGoGo. That solves the demographic issue of teens-sans-cash, getting the work out to as many people as possible, but creates an issue of needing to generate bonus content for donors/backers.
Has anyone here tried something similar, or know of a YA author who has?
Nice outside-the-box ideas. No experience from me...
Nikki is right with her assessment...buying erotica is so easier...just click what you like and buy it...no one needs to know...and you can read it anywhere you want on your electronic devices without having to worry about ways to hide and actual book.Yeah, Ya readers just don't seem to have the money to buy books cos they are young...and even if they get the money, they will probably spend it on buying a 'well known' book form a well-known author rather than an unknown...freebies seem to help, but who knows if their friend will buy it if recommended
Hmmm...I haven't done the IndieGoGo thing Rez...it does sound intersting though...but then again have to worry about creating extra content for the backers and delivering it to them
I don't have any experience with IndieGoGo (or any similar sites), but a lot of my loyal readers are international, so I can't offer them the things I would if they were USA bc of shipping prices. It's incredibly pricey to send books overseas, so my international giveaways and such are always e-books or easy-to-mail swag. However, if you were doing digital content, that may be different, but I'm not sure how many people would really back it if they weren't getting something tangible from it. From the few I've seen being promoted through Twitter, the backers usually receive quite a bit of physical items.
In my case, I live in Japan, and yes, I have sent my paperbacks mainly to North America, but also to Australia, Israel, and a few to Great Britain. Is it pricey? You bet, but if I make a promise I carry it through. Has that translated into more sales? Maybe...no way to know. The best way is always word of mouth.In the future if I ever go indie, then I'd probably send digital copies out and not just ARCs. But right now, I have to concentrate on writing well.
Bringing things back to the original question, can self publishing work in the YA genre?I think it depends on what you mean by work. If you are expecting to make thousands of dollars and have an instant following from your first book, then probably not. My self published YA books have attracted readers, in the hundreds, but not in the thousands by any stretch. I make a small but regular side income from them, but I am a long way from making a living.
But that rarely happens for traditionally published authors either. 50,000 dollars advances might be possible, but I sure don't know any writer that's been offered that for a first novel. And since the average novel doesn't pay out it's advance, that advance is often the only money traditional authors ever see for their labors.
Either way, it's tough to make a lot from YA writing. It often takes a number of books on the market to start making a name for yourself.
My suggestions for marketing are:
1. Don't forget the fundamentals. Have your book edited. Get a good cover. Spend some time working on the blurb, etc. Those simple things do more than all the other promotions combine.
2. Don't worry about money or success, at least not at first. Be almost ruthlessly generous in giving out copies, to reviewers, to blog sites, to interested people, to genuine fans. Obscurity is a much bigger hurdle than
anything else. If your choice is to hold out for a paid sale or get a new fan by sending them a free copy, get the fan. The paid sales will come when that new fan starts bragging up your work to their friends.
3. Keep writing. A single book does not make a career. Then again, if your book tanks, that's good news. A book doesn't ruin a career either. Just keep writing. ;-)
Awesome advice Rachel!! When it comes to YA: Cover, editing, and blurb are a must...and yeah, keep writing...you will attract the fanbase you deserve in due time :)
Rachel wrote: "Bringing things back to the original question, can self publishing work in the YA genre?I think it depends on what you mean by work. If you are expecting to make thousands of dollars and have an ..."
I agree with everything Rachel has said here.
Having self-published by first book, then my first YA title (second book) I can say that, although not a NYT bestseller, my YA book did hit the number two spot on Amazon for young adult (all genre), number one in coming of age (again all genre), and was an ARe bestseller for over two weeks. For me (and an LGBT title) that was HUGE!
So you can have moderate success with a self-published early work.
My best piece of advice is to try, my second is to find an editor you trust, that guarantees their work (learned this one the hard way). A good cover goes without saying. But no matter what, keep writing. You might change styles, change genres, change story lengths, but as long as you keep learning, keep trying, keep persevering, eventually you will be rewarded.
And listen to others. I cannot stress this enough. Learn from mistakes, listen to anyone willing to share their advice, and take away from them what works or seems reasonable for you.
Set a goal. I have one, and whether I ever reach that goal or not doesn't matter as long as I keep moving towards it.
Rez wrote: "What are your folks' opinions on alternate revenue models?One idea I'm toying with is just giving away my first YA title for free, then doing something like a Patroen or IndieGoGo. That solves t..."
Writing takes a lot of work and I am always impressed with those who give away their hard work. I know authors it has worked for, building a solid readership for them or getting people vested in a series by giving away the first title. Whether you opt to do this or not, is solely up to you. I don't have any experience using either service you mentioned, but I know a lot of authors have published free titled on Amazon and done really well with future works because of that decision.
Can self-pub be successful in YA?
Can a new author expect to get readers for a self pub release?
Any suggestions on the process?
Any suggestions on marketing the book?
Is it important to have a paperback version as well as e-book?