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message 51: by Ron (new)

Ron Jr. | 5 comments Awesome information. I'm very new to writing. Just published my first through KDP. It was a fun experience and I'm about to start book two. I was researching ppc and this does help. I may give Amazon marketing a try. It seems they do the targeting for you which is essential. I knew it would be hard to market myself but didn't realize it was this tough. I guess my question is, will I definitely see an uptick in sales if I try the amazon ads? My sales aren't amazing at this point. Just face book and twitter pushing it. Its weird, everyone seems to be buying the paperback opposed to the kindle version of it. I released it on July 30th and sold about 40 books so I'm assuming I can only go up with some ads.


message 52: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Bates (sarahbates) | 83 comments If you released on July 30 and have sold 40 books since August 1, you're doing better than most authors. Get going with author events in your town. Sometimes a local library will host an author, but you have to help do the PR to get the audience there. There might be a bookstore in your area that specializes in your genre ask them to host you. There's a sci-fi bookstore where I live, but that's not my genre. They book lots of authors who write sci-fi. Author events in places where your readers hang out are successful. Bars? Pubs? If you used a setting in the book your hometown folks recognize, find out if you can have an event there. I've done that and it works. Selling books is much more than buying an ad sent shotgun when a rifle round works best. Good luck.


message 53: by Ron (new)

Ron Jr. | 5 comments Hey Sarah, thanks for the information. I was going to look into book fares and such. The local library maybe a good option as well. I am trying a promotion service. For 7 days the promote it on their Twitter and Facebook pages as well as their main blog site. It was $35 so we will see. They seem to have decent reviews and a lot of followers. I’ll be sure to report back the results.


message 54: by Jack (last edited Aug 03, 2019 03:51AM) (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Good luck, and keep us in the loop!
Marketing makes the difference, but while you're waiting for that first one to take off, write another. Repeat. More books is the ultimate goal.
It's not easy to advertise just one book. You may well lose money, which is why I suggest that your budget on Amazon be limited to $5 per day. But pay attention to my suggestions; tweak where necessary, and if necessary, rework your ad once a week or even more often.
But with advertising, if someone sees your Amazon ad and goes to your Amazon page, they'll often look to see what else you've done. Even if they decide not to buy the book that brought them there, they may buy one of your others!
One more hint: business cards.
I toured the VLA yesterday and since I'm a hard-SF guy, I chatted with an astrophysicist and at greater length with a guy who runs a planetarium in Mystic, Connecticut. And of course, I passed out cards. They link to my author's site (http://jacklknapp.com), and the site in turn displays my most recent books. It also links to my blogs, which are another way to get your name and your book in front of potential readers.
A final note (for today, at least!): start a mailing list. As you develop fans for your work (you will; there's a reader for every book!), add them to the list. Don't inundate them with sales mails; no more than one per month is my recommendation. And don't necessarily limit your topics to your own work; if another author impresses you, mention their book! The people you're writing to are readers, after all, and they're trying to wade through the weeds on Amazon to get to the gold mines.
Share your experiences here. More information, successes or failures, analysis, tips, whatever. We're either where you are or we've been there.


message 55: by Ron (new)

Ron Jr. | 5 comments Jack,
Awesome advice. I’m getting ready to start my second book in the Duke Dempsey series. I’m very excited. I kinda had a learn by fire with my first book. Had to republish multiple times due to cover issues and editing issues. Things I guess you learn the hard way. Thanks again for information

Ron


message 56: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
You're welcome!
About republishing: Amazon makes it easy. I 'republished' Darwin's World yesterday, not the manuscript or cover, but the blurb and categories. Like you, I'm tweaking to make it better, more likely to cause a visitor to buy.
Kind of a never-ending process for Indies! Traditional publishers have teams of people who can make sure everything is 'professional' before a book is launched. And even they aren't perfect, which is why it often takes a year from manuscript acceptance to publishing.


message 57: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Well, phooey!
Just got the final print editions of my books. All 16, pretty impressive if I do say so meself! :D
Unfortunately...
The ones I prepped for print using Vellum (which is fairly expensive) have page numbers, the ones where I submitted the manuscript using a .docx format (which KDP now accepts) DON'T have page numbers. So I'll resubmit those after assigning page numbers and converting to pdf format. Most likely, I'll use Vellum, since I own a copy. But I also spotted an instance where Vellum labeled a page as 'Unidentified', probably my author's bio.
Live and learn.


message 58: by Richard (new)

Richard (smashed-rat-on-press) | 34 comments Speaking as a reader... I get the Bookbub daily e-mail with a handful of my preferred genres and I obtain/buy quite a few books from there, mostly indies. Mostly free or cheap books that are first-of-series. As a reader I'm leery of paying anything over a dollar or two for any book by any author whose work I've never read before, be that indie or big publisher.

Via Bookbub I've found a fair number of new-to-me indie authors whose books I have enjoyed, and I've found a few whose work I now keep buying at full price.

As a reader these days, given the enormous glut of books available, I just won't pay "traditional" prices for any book by an unknown-to-me author. New authors who are trying to sell books for $5-10 without using freebie promos are kidding themselves in this cut-throat environment. Yes, it's sad. But that's the world we live in...


message 59: by D. (new)

D. Thrush | 315 comments Thanks for that feedback, Richard. I agree, as a reader, I feel the same.


message 60: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
For authors, free books are a race-to-the-bottom.
I literally have so many books that I downloaded for free that I'm not interested in paying full price. Even the free-to-me Kindle Unlimited books are often returned unread, when something more interesting comes along. That, too, is part of the publishing/reading world we live in.
The other side of the coin, if I'm reading I'm not writing. And right now, I'm having the most productive period I've had since I first started writing fiction, back in 2013.
How productive? 5000 words plus in a day.
It means I spend most of a full day pounding the keyboard. What makes it all possible is my new system of organizing my work.
I use an Excel spreadsheet. First, very narrow, column is for listing chapter numbers. The second, somewhat wider, lists the name of the characters who are interacting. The third sprawls across a wide screen, the widest I could find at a reasonable cost. I considered using several screens, but my desk is too full of other stuff; the wide screen is a compromise. But in that wide row I summarize what's going to happen.
It's kind of a combination of the writer's notebook and an organizer. Research information goes on the bottom, where I can find it but it won't interfere with productivity. I can cut/copy-paste, delete, and move things around as needed.
The final thing I do after completing a chapter (2500 words works best for me) is to plan the next chapter. I can revise that on the fly, but that dreaded blank screen? I can immediately begin typing, because I've ready planned what I'll do.
As a result, in just three weeks, I've written 53,000 words on the way to a 65,000 word novel.
But I don't have time to read while I'm writing, and I don't miss reading. Despite the planning, the book often decides where it wants to go. That's the seat-of-the-pants part of my style, and it's why writing is fun, not drudgery. Why, at an age when most have long stopped, I'm still writing.


message 61: by Ron (new)

Ron Jr. | 5 comments Well that sounds amazing. Keep it up!


message 62: by J. (new)

J. (jdrew) | 308 comments Mod
Hey Jack,
I too have used a similar spreadsheet to lay out the chapters in a book I'm working on. I also like the fact that it's easy to change something or rearrange chapters when the story I thought I was telling goes off the rails and takes off on its own. Impressive surge for you, keep it up.


message 63: by Julie (new)

Julie Brown (julieb657) | 2 comments Jack - thank you for this informative and well-written post/advice!


message 64: by Sarah (new)

Sarah Bates (sarahbates) | 83 comments Thanks for the organizing help. I'm working on a novel with six POV characters who interact each in his or her own chapter. Keeping track of where and when plot-wise has been tough. I'm going to try your method.


message 65: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Writers helping writers; it is, after all, THE Writer's Group!


message 66: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
If you want to publish on Amazon, we can help. If you're looking for a traditional publisher, not so much.


message 67: by lethe (new)

lethe Pablo wrote: "Please can some oe from Goodreads help me..."

Pablo, staff is no longer monitoring this group. If you want help, you need to contact them directly (click 'About us' found at the bottom of every page to find the contact information).

You could also flag the rating, but Goodreads allows users to rate books before they have been published. GR have stated so repeatedly and it is also in their FAQ (I can't link to it, because I'm on my old iPad and cannot access the Help pages from it).

(Glad to see the mods have not completely abandoned this group, btw :/ )


message 68: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
We haven't; but it appears that there's little interest in the group now.


message 69: by lethe (new)

lethe Jack wrote: "We haven't; but it appears that there's little interest in the group now."

There was a spammer last month. Fortunately her account was deleted in the meantime.

Many authors still think that the group is monitored by staff. Maybe you could archive the "Ask Goodreads" folder, since it seems to cause confusion.


message 70: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
No idea how to do that!
It's to be expected, since we're 'cheap help'! :D


message 71: by Dana (last edited Dec 06, 2019 03:39PM) (new)

Dana Alexander | 10 comments :D Well, thank you for the help you do provide, Jack!


message 72: by lethe (new)

lethe Jack wrote: "No idea how to do that!
It's to be expected, since we're 'cheap help'! :D"


You could at least rename the folder and add a sticky post that staff no longer monitors this group?


message 73: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
We did rename the group; doesn't seem to have helped, does it?
As for a 'sticky post', if no one bothers to read the group's messages it won't matter.


message 74: by lethe (new)

lethe I meant rename the folder that is now called 'Ask Goodreads'.


message 75: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
I still haven't located that folder! And I've just spent about five minutes looking!


message 76: by Faith (new)

Faith Jack wrote: "I still haven't located that folder! And I've just spent about five minutes looking!"


https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...


message 77: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Notice that Goodreads admins no longer follow discussions in the group posted this morning.


message 78: by Lorna (new)

Lorna Wilson (blackbutterflylorna) | 20 comments Hi Jack and J.
Looking forward to great discussions. Preference for Group Name: Authors' Discussion Group.


message 79: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Thanks, Lorna!
Do you think that changing the name would make a difference?


message 80: by lethe (new)

lethe Jack wrote: "Do you think that changing the name would make a difference?"

Personally, I don't think changing the group name would make a difference. It was changed after staff left. But the folder is still called 'Ask Goodreads': https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group... , and that is the one causing confusion.

Also, the title of the notice you put up doesn't make clear what it is about. Calling it, f.e., 'Please read: This group no longer monitored by staff', and making it a sticky would help.


message 81: by Paul (new)

Paul Roman | 7 comments Emily wrote: "… Goodreads Help, our new, faster experience for finding answers to member questions …
What is the RSS URL of my Goodreads blog for linking to the Amazon Authors' Page?



message 82: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
That one I can't help you with. Sorry.


message 83: by Richard (new)

Richard (smashed-rat-on-press) | 34 comments @Paul(?): the RSS URL of my Goodreads blog

First, find the main page of your blog, which is linked from your profile page. In the upper right corner of the blog page should be a blurb about the blog, your icon, a link to your profile... And a little orange icon that says "RSS". That icon links to the RSS feed of your blog. It is the same as a link to your blog, with the string "?format=rss" tacked onto the end.


message 84: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Thanks, Richard!


message 85: by Paul (new)

Paul Roman | 7 comments Richard wrote: "@Paul(?): the RSS URL of my Goodreads blog

First, find the main page of your blog, which is linked from your profile page. In the upper right corner of the blog page should be a blurb about the bl..."


Richard wrote: "@Paul(?): the RSS URL of my Goodreads blog

First, find the main page of your blog, which is linked from your profile page. In the upper right corner of the blog page should be a blurb about the bl..."

This is at the head of long text that appears when I click on RSS:

Paul Roman's Blog https://www.goodreads.com/ en-US Sat, 07 Mar 2020 18:06:04 -0800 60 Paul Roman's Blog https://www.goodreads.com/ 144 41 https://www.goodreads.com/images/layo...

None of it worked as my RSS URL.
Please help.


message 86: by Richard (new)

Richard (smashed-rat-on-press) | 34 comments @Paul: long text that appears when I click on RSS

Probably the text that's in the RSS feed... Probably you haven't set a default program that opens RSS feeds.

I'd advise copying the link (right click) that's on the author's blog home page and then past that link, or subscribe, into a feed reader. E.g., https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

I just used a feed reader to subscribe to that link and it works fine. Ten articles got imported in the reader.


message 87: by ريمة (new)

ريمة (omferas) | 105 comments Ron wrote: "Awesome information. I'm very new to writing. Just published my first through KDP. It was a fun experience and I'm about to start book two. I was researching ppc and this does help. I may give Amaz..."

If we asked: How do we sell a lot of books? What is the best way?


message 88: by Jack (last edited Mar 10, 2020 11:08AM) (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Simple answer: advertise.
A friend has done very well with Facebook Ads, but I never have. I've always lost money. I tried advertising on BookBub's pay-per-click ads, got no clicks and so the ad cost me nothing.
Some advertise through email advertisers like Ereader News Today. I did that for a few years, but my 'market' there ended up saturated so the ads stopped paying off. But if you only have one or two books, this is the cheapest way to advertise that I'm aware of.
I'm currently spending a considerable amount of money on Amazon Ads. They're working for me because I have three series and a pair of stand-alone history novels, all on Kindle Unlimited. Sales don't break even, but when the KU borrows are considered, the ads work. If someone buys or borrows the first book in a series, I hope that they'll buy the others and that appears to be happening.
But it's work, so don't expect to put up an ad and get rich. I check mine daily and tweak them every few weeks, trying to get the most return on my investment.
About pay-per-click ads: if you're getting almost no clicks, rewrite the ad. If you're getting clicks but almost no buys, rewrite the book's blurb.


message 89: by Carmen (new)

Carmen 'Punkin' Davenport | 1 comments Hey Guys,

My name is Carmen Davenport. New Author of a Self-Published book called Nosey Nia: The Big Book (Children's Book). This is all so new so I am here to learn. I published on Amazon and that's about as far as I've gotten, no marketing except on social media. I actually stumbled upon creating an Author account on Goodreads so I'm browsing. :)

My biggest challenge in getting it started was choosing categories that work and understanding why that's even important. Now, I'm trying to find all exposure avenues so don't mind me, I'll be reading all posts and responses to gather information. Sorry, I can't be of any help to anyone.

Signed,

Starving Author...get it? Okay, a little corny but hey I tried :)


message 90: by Jack (last edited Apr 29, 2020 06:19AM) (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
I've posted a few things on my blog at JackLKnappAuthor.com (I think that's the correct one; if not, let me know) and I'm about to post an entry about advertising on Amazon.
Good luck with social media ads; I've lost money every time. But my Amazon Ads work.
One tip for categories; Amazon allows two major categories, such as Fiction: Children's, but when you get into the sub-categories, you can fill those 7 blocks with more than one attractor; just separate them with a comma, e.g. Adventure, Discovery, etc.
Right now, I'm winging it, less than a cup of coffee this morning! Amazon's KDP page might have other names. If you can't figure out my meaning, let me know; I'll help.
But don't agonize over your first book; start writing another. I'm currently working on novel #21, the 4th western that will link the other three into a de-facto series, my fourth.
If you want to know more about me and see whether my experience relates to you, look me up on Amazon under Jack L Knapp.


message 91: by J. (new)

J. (jdrew) | 308 comments Mod
Hi Jack,
I can't find the blog post about Amazon ads. Is there someplace else to look?
Jim


message 92: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
I posted it on March 10th.
An update: for a while, I was burning through about $500 a week on Amazon Ads, but I was also getting good results. I've since tweaked the ads so that now I'm paying roughly $1000/month.
Income just received from Amazon and ACX, the audio outlet: $3933.58. Subtract ~$2000, not great, but acceptable.
Next month, much better, in part because my audio producers have done a lot of advertising of the audio books. May accounts payable from Amazon and ACX, ~$5800. In part that results from publishing more books and releasing more audiobooks, but it's also the result of really working at advertising. That $500/month I mentioned was the price of education.
First, have a quality product. If your books are 3.0 stars or less, you're spinning your wheels. You also need an attractive, SIMPLE cover that concentrates on the title and author's name; the pic is background and most are far too busy to show anything meaningful in a thumbnail view.
Second, write a blurb that will convince a potential customer to buy your book.
Third, write an ad that will send them to your Amazon site.
Simple rule: if you're not getting clicks, rework your ad.
If you're getting a lot of clicks but few buys, rework your blurb.
There are all sorts of blurbs that tell you how to select good targeting words, but the best ones are the names of authors who write books similar to yours.
Then tweak your ad daily until you get it right.
For some targeting words, increase your bid, but never more than about half of your royalty; 25% is far better, and even that might be too much. If your bid X the number of clicks is more than your royalty, you're losing money. Doesn't matter if you aren't getting clicks or your book isn't going up in Amazon's rankings; the bottom line is the only thing that counts. You're in this to make money or you're doing it for vanity, and I make money from my writings.
Exceptions: if it's the first book in a series like my New Frontiers Series, with 6 novels, I can bid higher because the coattail effect will sell the other books.
Another exception: if your book is on Kindle Select, e.g. available for borrowing, borrows don't count as far as Amazon Ads are concerned. A good resource to track sales AND borrows is Amazon's Royalties Estimator, free from Amazon.
Another good source of information: your Author Central account, also free. You can track book rankings and also audio rankings if you have audio editions. If you do, then your ACX account gives you direct information.
But I can explain that one in another post if anyone is interested.


message 93: by J. (new)

J. (jdrew) | 308 comments Mod
Jack, thanks. I am going to get serious about Amazon ads once I get my next book out - almost there. But I am going to spend the time to figure out what and how to use those ads.
All the best.


message 94: by Janet (new)

Janet Souter | 9 comments In your opening paragraph for the post on April 29, you said:
"for a while, I was burning through about $500 a week on Amazon Ads,.."
Then later you said, "That $500/month I mentioned was the price of education."
So did you spend $500 a week or a month? Anyway, all in all, good info. Thanks


message 95: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth Crounse | 2 comments This discussion on ads was very helpful to me. I am a babe in the woods with all of this. I wrote my first adult book this summer, and sold about 150 print books, 150 paid ebooks, and gave away 200 free ebooks. Mostly friends, families, and their circles. Now I m lucky to sell two or three a month. I have tried Goodread giveaways and sold one book. I have done facebook ads. Now, based on the above, i ll try Amazon ads. This is much more difficult than i expected!


message 96: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
If you're on Facebook, find my page and ask questions. If not, use my jlknapp505 (at symbol) msn.com.
Amazon Ads can be very effective, but they can also cost you more than you earn! I made a tracking spreadsheet to keep track of my expenses and earnings, and as a result I am doing a lot better. I'll share it, plus my observations on advertising, if you send me an email. No charge, of course, ever. To you, or any other author.
I'm on track to spend less than $100 this month, but of course my earnings are also down. There's a balance I'm trying to achieve, maximum income for minimum ad expense.
Meanwhile, write more books. Consider formatting your ebook for print (I can help). Consider finding someone who will create an audio edition in return for sharing royalties. That's what I do, and I consider it a no-brainer.
Ads should send people to your Amazon site; but it's the book blurb that actually sells your book, or convinces the viewer to borrow it. Are your books available on Kindle Unlimited? Borrows and Audio editions make up more than half of my income!


message 97: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth Crounse | 2 comments I would love the spreadsheet. email is bethhudson15@gmail.com. I actually have an ebook and print. I am debating doing an audio book. I m having trouble finding a reader but have one more person to approach. Will take into consideration your comments on a blurb. I think mine is weak. Thanks!


message 98: by Jack (last edited Nov 24, 2020 04:15AM) (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
Sent.
I currently have two narrators I work with. I was happy with Tom, but he's semi-retired now and quite selective about the projects he undertakes. I found another who's good, but slow, by deciding the qualities I wanted and then making a list of people offering their services through ACX. I listened to samples of their work, wrote to them one at a time, asking if they were interested in working with me, until I found one.
Some want a lot of money to narrate your work. They are guaranteed a profit, you are NOT! That's why I only work with the ones who share the income. THEY have skin in the game, meaning that if they don't advertise they don't get paid. If they do advertise, and if the audiobook is successful, both get paid equally. In the long run, for a very successful book, you would make more by paying the narrator and keeping all the income. But that's ONLY if the book is successful. For a book that's only moderately successful, or if you don't have a lot of risk capital to invest, royalty share is the way to go.
For me, it's more income for almost no additional work. What's not to like?
Writing and publishing, to me, is a business. I treat it like one, which is why I have spreadsheets and records in case the IRS ever audits me. Ad expenses are deductible, so are office expenses, as are memberships in professional organizations (the Science Fiction Writers of America, Western Writers of America, the Author's Guild) and I also include Mensa because of the influence on my SF novel sales. Travel expenses are deductible, but my travel dropped to zero starting in April. You can guess why.
I started writing fiction in 2013, published my first books on Amazon in 2014, and have been writing ever since.
Income in 2014, ~1000. I did almost no advertising.
In 2015, I began experimenting with ads. Income, ~7000. Some ads worked well, some didn't.
In January of 2016, a book I released late in December of 2015 took off. Amazon, for reasons I can't explain, started advertising it at no cost to me. My income soared, several months bringing in $6000 and one topping $7000. That one book made me a mid-lister, and I've had a dependable monthly income ever since.
I expect that to continue.
Not too shabby for a guy who started a writing career at age 73! :D


message 99: by M.E. (new)

M.E. Hembroff (mhembroff) | 6 comments i just found this group. I was wondering if anyone can join. I am an author of five books and am working on others. I can also be reached at mehembroff@hotmail.ca


message 100: by Jack (new)

Jack Knapp | 778 comments Mod
You're welcome to join, and invite any friends who are authors or at least interested in writing fiction.
It's been dormant for some time, but not by design. I'm here, I'm ready to help if you need advice.
I've published 22 novels on Amazon and I'm currently working on two more. After that, I may call it a career. I'm 81 and the words don't come as easy as they once did!


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