"The Mere Wife" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[Travis]

Welcome to the group read for The Mere Wife. This started as a buddy read, so up through comment 87, spoilers are hidden behind tags. After that, spoilers will abound!

A related Beowulf thread can be found here.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Holy shit, that prologue was way beyond my expectations.

[Travis]

Allison wrote: "Holy shit, that prologue was way beyond my expectations."

Just finished. Oh. OH. OOOH.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Travis wrote: "Allison wrote: "Holy shit, that prologue was way beyond my expectations."

Just finished. Oh. OH. OOOH."

The book or the prologue?!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Either way I'm SO EXCITED for this book right now. I thought it would be kinda cute and genre-bendy but not at all like this. If it stays like this, I'm going to be in love.

[Travis]

Prologue only. And I agree so much with your comment.

I have it in print and audio, and I’m glad I went with print for the prologue. There is so much cause to linger and reread in those pages.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yes, I'm glad I have this in print. I'm spellbound!

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

You guys are killing me.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Sarah wrote: "You guys are killing me."

Sorry, Sarah, I'm gonna compound it and start spoiler tags.

But first, a few content warnings that I've found so far: pretty extreme and graphic war casualties and PTSD. And I think pretty soon something bad is gonna happen to kids, but I don't know yet how graphic it will be. Shields up, parent-friends!

Chapter 2

(view spoiler)[ I'm really astounded at how the author is keeping all the threads going at the same time. It's a pretty exact retelling so far from a different POV and both the women are so real and yet such a pastiche of the quintessential timeless characters in myth and fairy tale.

How much they foil each other--The wife of the inland sea and the woman whose role is just "wife." Dana being "pretty enough" to make it to a hostage video and Willa "pretty enough to marry a doctor." Willa contemplating how pianos are a symbol of war made into culture, and Dana seeing culture as another facet of war. I love how much I pity and empathize with each woman while we spend time with her, and how much I loathe them when I'm with the other. I'm so amazed that Headley was able to achieve that.

And then the prose! Another perfect melange of epic poetry meets modern day sensibilities. (hide spoiler)]

I hope it continues like this!

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "Sarah wrote: "You guys are killing me."

Sorry, Sarah, I'm gonna compound it and start spoiler tags.

But first, a few content warnings that I've found so far: pretty extreme and graphic war casual..."

Oh yeah by all means- continue! I can't wait to jump in.

And thank you for the heads up! If you get any more details let me know. If we start heading into The Lovely Bones territory, I will politely back away.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

That's fair, Sarah! I'll keep you posted.

[Travis]

Allison wrote: "Chapter 2."

(view spoiler)[I love all of these observations, Alison. You help me to see aspects of the parallel being drawn between these two characters I otherwise would have missed. Willa's observation about the piano also stood out to me. The earlier reference to the colonial history of its materials made the reference to it as "ghastly" at the chapter's end that much more effective--way more than a mother's comment on her son's poor playing. The intensity of the gender division here and the traditionalism of the roles performed (e.g. that she makes her husband a vodka martini at 5 every evening) seems at once anachronistic and contemporary in a chillingly effective way. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Chapter 2:

(view spoiler)[ Yes, the juxtaposition of the woman soldier and the perfect housewife should be glaringly dissimilar and yet they're meshing in a way that adds to that strange sense of suspended animation--a sort of literary device that turns the cliche "always the same story" into a fantastically macabre reality. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10

(view spoiler)[

First, I hadn't realized that there were sections in this book, and that they correspond with different interpretations of the word used to start stories in old Germanic languages! It is an interesting play on the storytelling tradition, are you getting anything out of it other than the nod to epic poems?

Next, I'm once again impressed by how real the "cages" in the minds of both Willa and Dana feel. Willa should be happy and yet she's constantly looking for flight or terror. Dana should be desperate and yet she seems at peace with the autonomy she's retained.

I'm trying to decide what it means in the story that Gren is a real monster and not just a half-brown boy, which is what I initially thought and was intrigued to see how far the bigotry storyline would go. But now that's shifted somewhat in my mind.

I'm nervous for when these stories intertwine!! I wonder if the earth/tunnel will have a part in that. (hide spoiler)]

So far, nothing new triggery.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

My copy came in, I’ll be starting tonight!

[Travis]

Sarah wrote: "My copy came in, I’ll be starting tonight!"

Yay! I'm only through chapter 4, but so far I think you're in for a real treat, and I can't wait to hear what you think of it.

[Travis]

Ch. 8:

(view spoiler)[Trayvon Martin is the ghost haunting this book and making me fear every time I turn the page, and this chapter's reference to "neighborhood watch" just amped that fear up several notches. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Well I know who I can trust when it comes to books. I only just read the prologue, but thats the best first line(s)/prologue I think I’ve ever read.

Plus I love that the dedication is to “Anonymous, for all the wonderful stories she wrote.”

This is the perfect antidote to the last book I read.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Sarah wrote: "Well I know who I can trust when it comes to books. I only just read the prologue, but thats the best first line(s)/prologue I think I’ve ever read.

Plus I love that the dedication is to “Anonymou..."

RIGHT?! I was really not prepared for that prologue. And I did love the dedication!

Travis, re: Ch 8 (view spoiler)[That's a great point. I was still thinking about Fallujah, but you're so so right that the suburban side of that is Trayvon Martin. Ugh. Heartbreaking. I mean, we know something bad is going to happen to at least Gren because that's how Beowulf goes, I just am anxious in all senses of the word for what that will look like. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

All your comments tempted me into starting reading tonight, and whoa. That prologue. This may be a slow read for me, but it seems like it's going to be worth it.

[Travis]

The coffee in this book!

The point where I first started thinking about Martin comes in chapter 3:

(view spoiler)["To me, he looks like my son. To everyone else? I don't know. A wonder? A danger? A boy? A boy with brown skin?" That line was chilling and, like you said Allison, heartbreaking. (hide spoiler)]

Then, in chapter 9, when Dana (view spoiler)[lies to Gren and maybe to herself that "I can keep him safe forever" I just about lost it. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Kaa wrote: "All your comments tempted me into starting reading tonight, and whoa. That prologue. This may be a slow read for me, but it seems like it's going to be worth it."

I'm so glad you're joining!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Kaa, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this!

Travis, that interpretation makes complete sense to me and adds a whole new level of tragedy/brilliance to this book.

Chapter 12
(view spoiler)[ OMG The Moms as an army/the Guard is just brilliant. I loved the shared consciousness, the battle-hardened feel without losing sight of the struggles of their privileged lives. I got such a strong vibe--they are The Fates, they are the Valkyries, they are angels who are too pristine and wise to be Human, but are adept in wielding the strings of humanity to their own ends.

Roger cheating is a revelation. I wasn't sure how Willa and Dana would confront each other--I'd initially thought Dylan was the second half of Grendel, but then thought...oh, maybe Willa becomes Beowulf. Now I'm back to my original idea, what with her discussion of becoming a monster in Chapter 11.

Also quick note on 11, the dead rabbit is such a perfect stab of fear for both Dana and Willa. Wow. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 13
(view spoiler)[ I shivered. The palpable fear from all sides--a mother looking for her son, a strange woman running into a house of socialites screaming the name of Dylan's imaginary friend. Warding her off with bits of food, speaking of the money they give to charity, just like offerings to placate demons.

And that last line of the chapter. I gasped! I have a strong feeling about what's going to happen and I know it's not good because we know the story of Beowulf but Headley is such a master I'm so worried about it! (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I just finished what I think is part one. I'm so in love with this story, not just as a retelling of Beowulf but as something that feels so relevant as a mother.

Re: Chapter 2: (view spoiler)["Yes, the juxtaposition of the woman soldier and the perfect housewife should be glaringly dissimilar and yet they're meshing in a way that adds to that strange sense of suspended animation"

This is so true and reminds me of a quote from a book I recently read: "There is a lesson to be learned here. We are all more alike than we think."

I agree completely. Two completely different lives/upbringings but the nature of their suffering brings them together somehow. Their voices/desires etc. are not being heard.

Also chapter two, the wicked little devil on my shoulder was shouting with glee as Willa dips her finger in the ice cream, tells her son to do the same, and puts it back. I know it's awful but it brought her to life on the page for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Sarah wrote: "I just finished what I think is part one. I'm so in love with this story, not just as a retelling of Beowulf but as something that feels so relevant as a mother.

Re: Chapter 2: "Yes, the juxtaposi..."

I loved that scene too. It gave me a wee bit of glee. On top of everything else, there's some amazing humor in novel. A reference to (view spoiler)[Werner Herzog (hide spoiler)] around chapter 15 had be laughing out loud at the gym.

Love all your comments, Allison, especially the ones about the totally brilliant and amazing chapter 12. I read your comments right before the novel referenced (view spoiler)[the chorus in a classical play (hide spoiler)] around chapter 14 and thought "Aha!".

Re chapter 15

(view spoiler)[I fully thought the cops were going to kill Gren in this scene and was really shocked to hear that they'd killed a bear instead. Not at all what I was expecting, but also such an amazing nuance and addition to everything the novel is doing with how crucial it is, for the people who live in this gated community, to hold one's self apart: apart from the poor, apart from the city, apart from the monstrous, apart from the continuing but forgotten war, and, even as they can look out their glass houses upon natural beauty, apart from the natural world. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

Just starting to appreciate all of the definitions of "mere" - my dictionary reminds me that it's also "mother" in French.

[Travis]

Kaa wrote: "Just starting to appreciate all of the definitions of "mere" - my dictionary reminds me that it's also "mother" in French."

I'd put together lake, nothing more than, set apart, and small, but I totally forgot about mother. Wow! That's an amazingly dense three-word title.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Kaa wrote: "Just starting to appreciate all of the definitions of "mere" - my dictionary reminds me that it's also "mother" in French."

Interesting- thanks for sharing!

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Travis wrote: "Ch. 8:

[spoilers removed]"

sorry I'm still playing catch up- but now that you've mentioned this I can't stop seeing it.

I think it was Chapter 10: (view spoiler)[ It was interesting to me that Gren kept referring to himself as boy. And then he talks about being invisible while also talking about Dylan using the word boy, and the whole thing kind of felt like a brilliant way of highlighting the invisibility of both boys. Grendel's to the wider world and Dylan to his own parents, the father who's not involved and the mother who doesn't really want to be a mother. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Really great observation, Sarah, that is one I'd overlooked, and yes! Another great example of her weaving dissimilar things into one pattern.

[Travis]

That's so helpful, Sarah.

[Kaa]

I take back what I said about this being a slow read - it's frequently painful but I can't put it down. The use of language throughout is incredible. I anticipate re-reading just to catch some of the nuances I'm sure I missed. As you've all said, patterns and parallels are woven everywhere in the story.

Ch 22: (view spoiler)[I was blown away by how perfectly she captured the dogs' perspective. That was unexpected but worked so well. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 23: (view spoiler)[I loved the indictment of the idea of the "hero" in this chapter. It's such a contrast to the way both Dana and Willa are described. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Replying to Kaa:

Ch. 22

(view spoiler)[Given that this is the second first-person plural perspective we get in the novel, are we meant to see parallels and patterns between the dogs and the mothers? (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

RE: Chapter 12 - Allison I love your interpretation! I know I’m dense but I hadn’t even seen it that way. This is going to be my favorite chapter in the book I think.

(view spoiler)[I also loved the condescending tone towards their husbands and sons. The talk about men being boys and all their lives they steal things and lose them and it’s up to the women to pick up the pieces.

And mothers and daughters uniting over the heartbreak their men cause them. The whole tone of that chapter is so vicious. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

And just finished ch. 23.

Re. your point, Kaa: DAMN! That's the truth. Am I right that Herot is pronounced "hero"?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yeah, it's sucking me in and searing me all the time. I'm only stopping now because I'm starting to read too quickly to catch all the nuance.

Page 134 (view spoiler)[ Travis, you so nailed it. With the backlash and support of her use of the word "monster" and how you should shoot first. I wanted to be sick. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15 (view spoiler)[ Agreed, it was such a twist, the fear that Gren was gone and then the pit dropping out of my stomach even more when it wasn't. (hide spoiler)]

I'm on Chapter 20 now, will report back when I can click those tasty, tasty spoiler tags!

[Travis]

Stand Your Ground ideology is in so many ways the villain in this book.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Travis wrote: "Stand Your Ground ideology is in so many ways the villain in this book."

That is a perfect way to capture it. I just can't with this book and all you perceptive people.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

This is tense. I’m on the edge of my seat but I want to enjoy the ride.

@Travis: love your thoughts on chapter 15. There is so much to absorb here.

Chapter 16: (view spoiler)[I am a little disappointed it was Roger who got killed. I’ve sort of been hoping Willa got to kill him with her own sword, lol.

But also- I was shocked when she started crying for him because that wasn’t the reaction I expected. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Re: Herot Hall, I've heard it pronounced HAY-rut, it's the actual name of the hall from Beowulf (one of the things I found so smart!) but Hero Hall is also great.

[Kaa]

@Travis: I hadn't thought of it that context, but that's exactly how I've been pronouncing Herot. And yes, I strongly agree about the Stand Your Ground ideology. I was listening to Janelle Monae as I was reading, and her song "Americans" fits really well with this book for that reason.

Re Ch 22: (view spoiler)[That also hadn't occurred to me - wasn't there another first-person plural from the view of the mountain or something like that? - but I absolutely think there are parallels between the dogs and women. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Kaa wrote: "Re Ch 22: (view spoiler) ."

Oh, yeah! How could I forget that totally amazing Chapter 1? This book somehow manages to thread ecology, anti-racism, feminism, meta-genre commentary, and so so so much more all in a plot I cannot stop reading.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Chapter 23

(view spoiler)[ I looooved the dogs. She did a great job. I love the chorus interludes of the mountain, the mothers, the hounds, which so evocatively move the scene from action point to action point.

I'm not feeling thematic connections between these things so much as stand-ins for the magic/"God's glory"/the friends who accompany Hrothgar and Beowulf.

Chapter 23 is another chapter that sings. Her awareness of how emasculated Ben feels, the mob mentality in one man, and again that mythic sense, the "for one day I will be old and my bones will betray me and the story shall fall to another" type narrative that we see so often in stories of this nature is brilliant, once again connecting that line for me from the past to eternity. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Oh shit, I just had a thought. This is something that comes up in the prologue.

(view spoiler)[ Do you think that the saint is (aside from the PTSD metaphor and spirit guide) also the allusion to the addition of the Abrahamic God into the text?? (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "Oh shit, I just had a thought. This is something that comes up in the prologue.

[spoilers removed]"

Actually I did have that thought initially and then forgot it.

I also liked the fleeting reference to the (view spoiler)[parrot taking the place of the poets. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Page 146: (view spoiler)[Am I reading this right- Willa fed Louisa an herb cocktail and caused her to miscarry?! (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Re page 146, that's what I got from it =/

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Chapter 25

(view spoiler)[ Chapter 24 was hard, so many different losses happening all at once. And then in Chapter 25 we have Willa "mentally" losing pieces of herself, which is brilliant but also makes me want to shake her! Is she mourning Dylan, while she thinks of past husbands and sex and how she's been taught to manipulate the world? Or is this another empty musing?

And what do we think the girl in white is going to prove to be in the allegory?! (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Re: chapter 23: this is FANTASTIC.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Page 188-89 (mid 27)

(view spoiler)[ This got to me. "Hotel balconies and back rooms, speeches given in public, children marching, fists up, nothing to shield their hearts from bullets.

and

..."My son becomes a place where the sidewalk is stained."

fml
(hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "Chapter 25

(view spoiler)[I think it’s herself (or the monster inside her). That’s a terribly literary allegory but it’s all I got! I’d love to know what you think it is!

I also find myself wondering if she had temporarily lost her own mind and was trying to kill Dylan instead of save him? She keeps talking about how she felt the tip of the crown and pushed it farther. At first I thought she was trying to make him swallow it.. but now I’m wondering. (hide spoiler)]