April Group Read Discussion: The Witch Elm

[Kali]

Let's talk about the mystery portion of the plot! Were the twists and turns satisfying to you? Were you surprised by anything? Did you figure it out before the truth was revealed?

(And, another friendly reminder about spoiler tags as we discuss this.)

[Nadine in NY]

I had figured out who committed the murder (and I felt that we were meant to see it coming, this wasn't really that kind of mystery that keeps itself mysterious), but I had not figured out all the details of why and how, so a few details surprised me (view spoiler)[like the bit with Toby's hoodie, and that Suzanne had lied to Toby about where he was when that text came from the dead kid whose name I've forgotten - Declan? (hide spoiler)]

I had NOT figured out who attacked Toby, (view spoiler)[so the who and why of that did surprise me. I was pleased that it was tied up moreorless neatly by the end - I was afraid she was going to leave us hanging, like she did in her first book! (hide spoiler)]

A few things that happened never made sense to me, like (view spoiler)[why exactly Toby engaged in the violent fist fight w the cop at the end? I guess he was just frustrated and acted without thinking? (hide spoiler)] but things in real life are like that, too, so I was okay with the ambiguity.

[Jess]

I've just finished so I'm going to answer both questions

My favourite character was Suzanna. I really related to her as I was very similar to her at school. I was academic and not really bullied just someone who got on with my schoolwork and faded into the background. I am also coming up to the point in my life when I need to start making decisions about career and family. (view spoiler)[ The fact that someone like that could have so much unrecognised resilience, (even if not channeled in the best way haha!) was somewhat cathartic for me. Even though I would like to think I am not capable of murder, her words about sometimes wanted to just crush a problem so that it will go away forever were scarily resonant (hide spoiler)]

My least favourtie character was Melissa as she was such a manic pixie dream girl (view spoiler)[although the comments on this thread that this might just be how she is viewed from Toby's perspective have made me re-think this (hide spoiler)]

In terms of the mystery. I didn't guess it but I can't say I was really trying to. It's not that type of book. I like how the reveals were gradual and not big 'A'HA' moments and that the explanations of the reveals felt natural despite their monologuey style. I put this down to French's excellent writing style.

I agree with Nadine's point above (view spoiler)[about Toby's attack on Rafferty (hide spoiler)] but from Rafferty's perspective rather than Toby's.

(view spoiler)[ I don't understand why he went to speak to Toby alone and why, as the trained and responsible professional in the situation, he was not able to de-escalate the situation. I listened to this on audio so I can't go back and find the passage but I believe that he hit Toby back after the first blow. Why did he not subdue and arrest him at this point? The whole scene was weird but kind of brilliant. (hide spoiler)]

I read a review which made an interesting point. They said that if this was a Dublin Murder Squad book Rafferty would be the protagonist and we would be cheering on his manipulation of Toby and the rest of the family in order to solve the mystery. From this perspective he is almost a villian.

[Jess]

Also wanted to say that I really loved this book maybe even more than the Dublin Murder Squad books that I have read (The Likeness being my favourite) and it is probably the best book I've read this year.

I need to start bugging my library to get the remaining Dublin Muder Squad books!

[Kali]

Jess wrote: "I read a review which made an interesting point. They said that if this was a Dublin Murder Squad book Rafferty would be the protagonist and we would be cheering on his manipulation of Toby and the rest of the family in order to solve the mystery. From this perspective he is almost a villian. "

That's an interesting point! I haven't read any of the Dublin Murder Squad books (although after reading The Witch Elm I am interested in checking them out) but it does turn a typical detective story on its head a bit.

[Kali]

I can't believe April is almost over! It feels like the month just began.

Any new folks joining after just finishing the book, feel free to share general thoughts or respond to anything we've been chatting about for the last couple of weeks!

Did the book leave you with any unanswered questions? Is there anything you're dying to talk about that hasn't come up yet?

[L Y N N]

I thought I had posted a comment earlier, but I guess I didn't. I am about 50 pages from the end. I love French's writing and this book is no exception! Anxious to finish and hope that happens tonight!

[Hilary]

Kali wrote: "Monkiecat wrote: I spent the first few chapters really wishing I could bitch-slap the dumb out of him"

Haha, this is about how I felt at the beginning of the book. I found him very frustrating."

Monkiecat wrote: "Kali wrote: "I'm curious about folks' perceptions of Toby in the early sections of the book. Do you like him? Do you find him to be a reliable narrator?..."

I spent the first few chapters really w..."

Hahaha. I agree with both of you. I found him to be very tedious and unlikable.

[Hilary]

Megan wrote: "Kali wrote: "I hope folks are enjoying the book so far!

I thought Toby's relationship with Melissa would be worth dissecting a bit. He talks often about how good she is and how she's the best thin..."

Yes! Her character reminded me of Kim Novak's character in Vertigo. Flat and only there to support the main character, which I agree says more about Toby (and Jimmy Stewart's character) than the women.

[Megan]

Let's talk about the mystery portion of the plot! Were the twists and turns satisfying to you? Were you surprised by anything? Did you figure it out before the truth was revealed?

Overall, I was satisfied with the twists and turns. I always love the way French builds her plots and this one was no exception. So many small details provided early in the story have so much bearing on the outcome. I didn't figure out the truth before everything was revealed, but certainly had suspicions about where everything was going.

I thought that the references to Toby's (view spoiler)[ drug use might mean that would be used to explain his unreliableness. I was very glad that was not the case. (hide spoiler)] The most surprising twist to me was when (view spoiler)[ Toby attacked Rafferty. That escalated so quickly! Perhaps the fact that Rafferty showed up alone should have been an indicator that something was going to go very wrong during that exchange. (hide spoiler)]

[Nadine in NY]

I think Rafferty was (view spoiler)[ really REALLY over confident, and he saw Toby and family as losers who he didn't need to worry about, much as we've seen some Dublin Murder Squad detectives be over-confident and/or smug. (hide spoiler)]

[Kali]

Hi everyone, I have been away from the internet for a couple days but since it’s the last day, I wanted to say thanks for the great discussion and feel free to chime in later on if you’re just wrapping up the book.

Did the book leave you with any unresolved questions?

For me, it was how much did Hugo actually know? I initially felt he knew everything but I have seen others suggest that he may have acted selflessly without knowing the full story, so now I am second guessing.

[Rachelnyc]

Nadine wrote: "I think Rafferty was [spoilers removed]"

I think you're right but I too was surprised by (view spoiler)[the fatal fight between him and Toby. After thinking about it, I can see how Toby was at his wit's end by that point so him initiating makes sense but Rafferty not trying to deescalate seemed odd. It made me wish we knew more of his backstory! (hide spoiler)]

Also, all of the comments about how Rafferty would be the protagonist in one of the books in her series, along with other positive comments about the Murder Squad books, really makes me want to check them out.

[Nadine in NY]

Rachelnyc wrote: "Nadine wrote: "I think Rafferty was [spoilers removed]"

I think you're right but I too was surprised by [spoilers removed]

Also, all of the comments about how Rafferty would be the protagonist in..."



yes the whole thing was shocking to me, too. I just didn't see things going that way.

I think if you liked The Witch Elm, you'll like her Dublin Murder Squad books, too. They follow more of a traditional murder mystery format, but their focus is always on the personalities involved. Like any series, some books are better than others, but I recommend you read them in order, because the "star" of the next book is a "costar" in the previous book, and it's fun to see them change as you get to know what's going on inside their heads.

[Katie]

Finished on May 1st - not bad since I survived a tax season from hell!

I agree with everyone that Toby is kind of a tool, but did find it at least a little encouraging that at least he seemed to listen - he always seemed genuinely surprised/remorseful when someone pointed out that he had been a jerk as a teen.

I found the pacing to be just a little slow, but thoroughly enjoyed the book and was happy to have it all wound up in a satisfying way.

[Julie]

I couldn't finish the book. It was slow and boring. I was very disappointed.