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To Have and Have Not/Hemingway
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It's not his best known work, but he does experiment with form in this one in ways that I respect.
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This one is a weird one. Some call it his worst novel, which I find amusing. It might be true. Then again, it might not. Hemingway -- not matter what -- is distinctively himself, and worth an hour of our time as a foundational writer in the hardboiled genre and MASSIVELY influential. Does his lesser work hold up today? This is the question I keep asking myself as I re-read it.
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It’s an awkward novel and honestly if it hadn’t been written by Hemingway we wouldn’t have looked at it twice. BUT since it is Hemingway it’s worth looking at what he does right and wrong in this novel. We recorded this episode the other day and we get into a lot of these issues. I think we will be in for some quality work in future episodes.
Yeah, Hemingway was either trying too hard or not trying hard enough. Hard to say which.
New Point Blank Podcast episode!Hemingway. Crime Fiction. Do the two go together?
In our newest episode we travel down to Key West to tackle Ernest Hemingway's "To Have and Have Not."
While not one of Hemingway's more famous novels, it is the closest he came to writing noir or crime fiction. (Aside from some short stories.)
We introduce the novel, discuss the legend that is Hemingway, and have a frank discussion on the problematic language found in this piece.
Also in this episode's featured review we look at some excellent rust belt crime fiction in the upcoming collection "Milwaukee Noir" from Akashic Books.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
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Wondering if Hem's use of N-word is a marker of the divisive nature of poverty in that Harry's perpetual desperation and the desperation of the other non 1% characters, the criminals and the revolutionaries, all the groups and the individuals live within themselves and their ethnic identities, so the N-word could be a symptom of the brutalising divisiveness of poverty.
Just throwing it out there.
Geoff wrote: "Okay, so I'm going to make a speculative point in defence of Hemingway:Wondering if Hem's use of N-word is a marker of the divisive nature of poverty in that Harry's perpetual desperation and the..."
When I encounter objectionable content like this in a novel, I feel obliged to justify it out of existence, otherwise I simply can't continue. In this book, I'm just telling myself that Hemingway was racist and Harry didn't really use that language. I know that this is a bit childish of me, but I wouldn't be able to tolerate it otherwise.
I'm less than half-way through now and Harry seems like a villain, so the racist epithets seem to fit the character up to this point.
I've finished the book and now see the use of racist epithets in the context of the full story. I haven't listened to the podcast yet, so my impressions may or may not be similar to those of Justin and Kurt, or anyone else in this group. In this story, Hemingway has written a criticism of capitalism through a collection of vignettes featuring a variety of working class and upper-middle class characters. Every single one of them is unlikeable. There are no heroes in this story. His portrayal of the upper classes is typical of this kind of book, but refreshingly, Hemingway paints his working-class characters without any shred of nobility normally attributed to the poor in this kind of story. They're all racist, drunk, immoral criminals. Everyone at every level is corrupted by the ethics of the system which dominates their lives, summarized by the lines "You win; somebody's got to lose, and only suckers worry."
This isn't a perfect, or even a great book, but it was a refreshingly honest look at a subject which too often patronizes the reader. Yes, the racist language was hard too take, but these characters were the kinds of people who use that language. Putting it on paper is just a form of honesty.
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I thought the narrative writing was great, and that's what I like most about reading Hemingway...the staccato phrases, dialog that seems out of place but is reality, the change of pov. I wanted to say that For Whom the Bell Tolls has a campfire scene in it where the pov jumps from character to character...this same scene was kind of lifted by Ken Kesey in Some Times A Great Notion. And you get A LOT of this in THAHN! I think it's pretty cool writing! In fact, in this second reading I liked the last quarter of the book most where the writer & his wife drink & squabble in the bar, the writer goes off on a binge and ends up kicking the ass of the wife's fruitcake new boyfriend...this whole scene was a barely connected thread to them main story but was strong...I also liked the look inside the rich folks yachts while Morgan's boat & body were being brought into the pier. Hemingway gave you a long enough glimpse in each yacht to size up the little drama going on in each...it was kind of like a slow moving camera on a dolly panning each boat for x amount of time. In the first yacht, the two late 30-something men, former college/fraternity classmates where one was rich & the other had lost his fortune...did you notice the reference to them being part of the Skull & Bones 322 Secret Society? I wonder if Hemingway rubbed elbows with Prescott Bush and his minions?
Yeah, I liked THAHN...it's a tough guy crime fiction adventure story with lot's of fancy writing, warts and all. Was it three short stories or two novellas stitched together? I really don't care, it worked for me....Does Hemingway deserve all the accolades, criticism & press? I think For Whom The Bell Tolls alone he deserves it ALL...I'd have to say it's the topper-most novel of the 20th century...And so many writers hitched a ride on Hemingway's work...Ken Kesey, John D. MacDonald, Jack Kerouac, Larry NcMurtry, Pat Conroy and not too mention all the pulps...-Good Read...Great Podcast! -Oh yeah, rust-belt Milwaukee Noir sounds really good, it's on my list...my great grandfather was the mayor of a town in north-east WI back in the day, can't remember the name of the town right now...
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Rob wrote: "They're all racist, drunk, immoral criminals."Nice.
Joe wrote: "Excellent podcast & review of Hemingway's To Have And Have Not by J & K...Other than likes & dislikes I pretty much agree with the analysis given in the podcast. Overall I”d give the novel a 4 on t..."Nice analysis, Joe. And yes, I came in with a high regard of THAHN but by the time we got to recording it my view had soured a bit. I think mostly -- as I still like the book -- I started to challenge my own tendency to apologize for H. I wanted to judge the book as I would judge any other. That said, and viewing the text as a literary work and not as a tightly plotted hardboiled yarn, it's a very interesting book. I love your mention of the slow pan through the yachts in the harbor. It was an important scene to me the first time I read it. . .
Of course we’d love to get your input on the book, but general thoughts on Hemingway or Hemingway’s influence on crime fiction writers would also be greatly appreciated.