Lightbringer Read-Along discussion
The Broken Eye Read-Along
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The Broken Eye: Chapters 85-End & Final Thoughts
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Also another thought, albeit a somewhat crazy and out there one...Anyone else think that the real Gavin Guile's death (the older brother and originally appointed prism) was just sudden and jarring and immediately smoothed over? Like a "oh hey look right here! oh never mind back to the rest of the story!"...What if he possibly used orange to hex the wall or something to create an illusion that he was dead until Gavin (Dazen) had left?? And then was found by Andross and/or just fixed the prison to plan his own revenge on his younger brother??
no, i firmly believe gavin gavin is dead. and i dont think that the colors will fall so easily in a moral spectrum... remember, were still not even sure that orholam is a good guy the series is built around a very definitive question "Do we defend a system that may be based on lies or do we overthrow it and start anew?" That question still hasnt been answered. now true were not rooting for the color prince but i still think theyre going to flip the world on its head. Also i cant wait to see more about Liv Danavis... everyone has been giving her a bad rap but she's the most realistic character and i cant wait to see how she'll move forward as an independent seed holder
Jordan wrote: "idk limelight... its just too cliche for brent's style in my opinion"Too, cliche???? Are you sure? The whole series is full of cliches. (God,Lucifer/Orholam, Abbadon); (Cain, Abel/DazenGavin,GavinDazen), just to name two big ones. These themes have been going on since man had words and stories to tell. That doesn't make them bad or unlikely in a good series. Even Shakespeare copied Aesculus for his plots!!!
Brent is very thorough in explaining all the main players' eye colors (and that Gavin's were blue before he became prism). There are more significant details about Kip's parentage than we are being told. I'm sure of it! )
yes but as far as the lame story tellers cliche he stays away from them... orphans parents are important - doesnt ever happen in Night Angel, Magic 1 up shrooms where character has 1 revaltion and suddenly changes everything in a span of 2 seconds - never happens, So yes im a bit leary or the whole "Luke I am your father" incident even if it is altered like it is in Inheritance (Eragon)ps i think youre referring to allusions limelight and yes he uses tons and tons of those
When reading night angel i always thought Kylars parents would turn out to be somebody special.. i don't think it deducts from Kip if his mother was a whore but what was she before she was raped by Gavin??Either way she got her own back,
Hell hath no fury...like a woman scorned...
Jordan wrote: "yes but as far as the lame story tellers cliche he stays away from them... orphans parents are important - doesnt ever happen in Night Angel, Magic 1 up shrooms where character has 1 revaltion and ..."Hmm maybe you could clarify? Revelations that change everything are something that Brent Weeks does with absolute aplomb, imho.
Limelight wrote: "Jordan wrote: "yes but as far as the lame story tellers cliche he stays away from them... orphans parents are important - doesnt ever happen in Night Angel, Magic 1 up shrooms where character has 1..."He does do revelations that change everything but he does them well and original... the "oh your parents are actually not jerks" thing has been way overdone so i dont think he'll do it
Jordan wrote: "Kip and Tisis isn't that surprising lol remember? Kylar, Vi and Elene?"Apparently he's pretty fond of threesomes...erm, I mean love triangles. ;)
Black/White Luxin and the Blinder's knife: so each time the dagger feeds on someone with luxin in their blood both the white and the black grew and we know that the black absorbs the colors and that Dazen/Gavin can draft black and white luxin and he is the only prism capable of drafting both the black and white (besides lucidonis) what if its only possible to draft white luxin if you have black luxin in the blood stream. Those are my thoughts anyone else think that's a plausible theory?
Barry wrote: "Black/White Luxin and the Blinder's knife: so each time the dagger feeds on someone with luxin in their blood both the white and the black grew and we know that the black absorbs the colors and tha..."thats an intriguing theory... i still think that the dazen using white luxin is a bit too predictable but we'll have to wait and see
Barry wrote: "Black/White Luxin and the Blinder's knife: so each time the dagger feeds on someone with luxin in their blood both the white and the black grew and we know that the black absorbs the colors and tha..."YES! I have thoughts on those same lines.
Also since there is a black,seed crystal is there a white one
I liked Brandon's short work titled "Gunner's Apprentice." Was very interesting to read and his blurb after that about what you can or should do in books. I don't mind a main character bumped off occasionally, very Joss Whedon style, it keeps it real. But I do hope that Dazen won't be killed in Blood Mirror.
@donna i agree dazen is my favorite character
Dazin is great. IN my opinion, he wasn't done justice in the last book because I think hein smart enough to talk himself out of his situation. But I don't feel what happened was unlikely either. Plus, dazin in the prison is an interesting turn too. But right along dazin, I realy like how our turtle bear is growing as a person. He is my favorite because he's gone from this low self esteemed kid who was picked on to a man who knows he is important and has a mission.
Yeah I think dazen really took a step back in this book but in a way it was great to see how he went from being such a powerful character to nothing more then a shell of himself. I definitely think that dazen is moving aside for kip now I just hope that doesn't mean anything bad will happen to dazen along the way
well ive said it before, Dazen and Kip are on a spectrum, Kip for to grow Dazen must start to shrink... i think its very likely to go even as far as killing Dazen
Quite possible, Jordan. If Andross still had the blinders knife, he would have killed off Gavin/Dazen a long time ago, to keep with the Prime's die early lie. So now that he has his second son at his mercy, he more than likely will try to kill him off, least of all for killing the real Gavin. But as Billy said, Dazen can talk himself out of teh most difficult of situations. And if he does have access to either black or white luxin...all bets are off on who will die.
oh no...voting!! How hard is voting for the Awards? DO I choose Brent or Brandon?? ahhhhhh!!!
Reread Broken Eye again and found Karris even more annoying.
This is an awesome series. My questions (I keep a list as I'm reading, so some are answered already) at this point are:Is Paryl white luxin?
What's the deal with the knife? - it creates the prism (how?), and shrives the old one.
Why did Gavin want Klytos keep killed?
Why did Kip's mom have the blinder's knife?
What were Gavin's purposes to complete before his tenure as prism ended?
What actually happened between Gavin and Dazen at Sundered Rock? How did only those two survive, and how/when did Dazen's eyes become prismatic?
Who tried to have Kip killed by the two Blackguards?
What did Karris and Samite do for Felia Guile?
If Andross was in league with Koios, couldn't the Order be humanity's last bastion of hope? Seems like both are out for themselves, and Andross really needs to be knocked down a peg.
parly is a color lower than subred it cant be seen by normal drafters not even dazen or kip could see it. klytos blue was to be killed because frankly he is an idiot and voted with Andross most of the time and would do nothing but cause problems for gavin
At the end of the blinding knife I'm sure Kip see's Paryl... When he destroys the ship he describes the state he goes into as being able to see metal (if I remember correctly) which I believe is only able to be done through the use of Paryl... He wanted Klytos Blue killed because (in my opinion) he was the most likely to realize blue was out of control and question why Gavin couldn't balance the excess blue...
Kip's Mum stole the knife from the real Gavin during the period in which Kip was conceived...
The others are good questions
That's a much more satisfying answer for why he wanted Klytos killed. But didn't Andross have the knife at that time? Why would Andross steal the knife then give it to Gavin, who he wanted to be able to replace if Gavin wanted independence?
I asked similar questions on Brent Weeks' site and one person had this to say:Reply by ZimboFan "So the other day I was rereading one of Ironfist and The White's conversations[...] Ironfist asks, 'Are we going to crush [the broken eye]'. And shockingly, the White says, 'That or bring them back to our ranks.' So yeah, I think it is naive to think that the Broken Eye is completely evil as at some time they had similar enough goals to be in a partnership with the Chromeria."
The word "back" in "bring them back to our ranks" suggests they once were in their ranks. The White is undeniably a protagonist. The simple fact that they were once allied means The Order was once on the side of good.
i think the white was refering to the drafters that left the chromera to join the broken eye
Jason wrote: "Is Paryl white luxin? No - Paryl is below subred."I've been wondering about this. If the game of Nine Kings, the symbolism of all the Colors, the White, and the Black mean anything it's that there are nine different colors to draft from. We have no real information on white luxin (I don't recall anything) so maybe Paryl is white.
In reality, white is all the colors together (if we're speaking of subtractive coloring). But then again, Teia is a Lightsplitter, the Prism also sits in the Spectrum, and Paryl drafters were almost made extinct in the past. So maybe Paryl is a different color...I'm not sure.
We know so little about white luxin that it is possible that Weeks will surprise us. Just thought of something funny: the white seed crystal must be manned by a white wight in order to become a Bane.
Ironfist. His allegiance is not really black or white nor the Order is entirely bad. Ironfist has this concept of personal loyalty and I think this will come in play when the time comes to choose which oath he needs to keep.So, who's the Lightbringer? Kip or Dazen?
My initial theory is that Kip is the Lightbringer and Dazen is the Prism. This is true if we divide everything in two warring camps as per the creation story and what happened in the Great Library, Orholam the Lightmaker vs the Lightbearer. Orholam's Prism vs the Lightbringer, this is assuming that the Lightbringer and the Lightbearer is the same. The Chromeria vs The Order.
This gets muddled though when we take into consideration that it was not specified where the Lightbringer came from, like I said I am just assuming that the Lightbearer and the Lightbringer is the same person which is not. The Lightbearer is immortal. There are a lot of characters in the story who claims to be the Lightbringer though: there's Abaddon, there's Lucidonius whom the Order and the Chromeria believed was the Lightbringer's first incarnation and there were Kip and Dazen.
To further muddy this theory, there's Lucidonius himself. It was said that he was the Lightbringer and yet he was of the Order before he became the first Prism and founded the Chromeria. So he fought for the Lightbearer and then turned traitor and became the Prism for Orholam after? Was he even a natural prim?
Lastly, the prophecy:
will slay kings and gods
Kip killed King Garadul and the green bane
Dazen killed pirate kings and the blue bane
mysterious birth
I still believe there's more to Kip's mom than what was already revealed. Katalina Delauria knew what the Knife was. It could be the Gavin told her what it does but do you really think the real Gavin will go slumming and sleep with just anybody, a mund? Maybe the reason why Katalina was that bitter was because she experienced firsthand what the Knife can do. Maybe she was a drafter.
There's no question about Dazen's parentage so I guess this goes to Kip.
genius of magic, the both get a point
champion of the poor and downtrodden
Dazen saved the people of Garriston from the Color Prince, Kip stands up for people when they are treated unjustly like say, Teia and Ben-haddad.
great from youth, Kip is fat. Dazen, well he's Guile from youth. ;)
He Who Shatters. Kip is Breaker. Dazen, caused a war that nearly broke the Satrapies
have to die twice. Kip died when he went to the Great Library. Dazen died in Sundered Rock when he assumed Gavin's identity.
Some other prophecies from Chapter 57, well, you can continue with the tallying. One line from this chapter though was fullfilled clearly by Kip. "... he'll pluck the immortal's own beard and steal the shade from his head in the Great Library."
Oh and question: Where are all the info about black cards? If Lucidonius was the first Diakoptes did he "absorbed" those old cards as what Kip did to the others? And who is Rea Siluz?!
Isn't the Lightbringer supposed to be dark, (from Tyrea) and low-born? Gavin isn't either of these.I think you're really stretching the facts to fit what you want it to. Doesn't Ironfist say to Grinwoody that Kip is the Lightbringer at the end of the third book?
Finally, the series follows Kip's growth, from child to adult. There's no way the Lightbringer Series revolves around a character who is not the Lightbringer.
not exactly liw born but of mysterious birth and i've given that part of the prophecy to Kip, and yeah, Ironfist said that Kip is the Lightbringer at the end of the book but that is just stating what he believes not a fact. Yeah, the series focused on Kip's growth but let's not forget that Gavin was given equal importance as well.
I don't think it is hopeless for Dazen being locked in his own prison. He was the one who created it, so he might know a way to escape. Even if he didn't leave a way to escape he still has access to his color, he just needs to unleash it. As for the Red and White. I've never read about more intimidating characters, both these two are masters at what they do. I was so sad to find out she dies, and that she knew it was happening. As for the Red how cold can you be to imprison your last son in a secret prison that he never told anyone about. Do you think his room slave betrayed him?
I don't think she betrayed him. She can't be in the room all the time, and Gavin's been gone for months. It'd be pretty easy, in my mind, for Andross to gain access to Gavin's chambers and have everything searched. And if I remember correctly, the panel for entering the room was just in his wardrobe. I forget if it required anything special to open, but with time on his side, Andross (and hell, Grinwoody, with his resources) could've figured it out.
There really is nothing at the end of the book to say for CERTAIN that it was Dazen's father that put him in the the prison at the end. Marissia may have hidden him in there for safe-keeping, since she is the only other one who knew where it was, how to get in, and at least something about how it worked. I guess we all have to wait for "The Blood Red Mirror" to find out. Drat it!
Beverly wrote: "Jordan wrote: "he doesn't have his colors... otherwise he could still use blue in BK.. he splits white light he doesnt need a blue source so he is color blind and he's lost all ability to draft wit..."Isn't this an obvious sign that he's able to draft Paryl? This is exactly what Teia demonstrates when she is tested to enter the order of the broken eye... there she's able to sense all the colours!
light splitting is a separate power that a few non prisms posse. it is almost as rare if not more rare as a natural prism
Now I found what I believe to be a foreshadowing to something important, however I cannot figure out what… In the Library (Chapter 57) Quentin shows Kip the Lightbr..."
Well from the sound of it, Orholam (who made the light) is the, well, Maker of light. Abaddon confirms when he meets kip that he more or less is the one that was kicked out of heaven by Orholam for stealing the light. Now we know from Sharp's story that he was the one that was booted after he said, "light cannot be chained, etc, etc", and because he supposedly brought light to earth, by Orholam. (obvious parallels to the Bible with Orholam being God, and Abaddon being Lucifer). So, so far we have Orholam = Maker of Light and Abaddon = Bearer of Light. Now what is interesting is that there are so many prophecies about the Lightbringer. In his meeting with Kip, you see that Abaddon claims not that he is simply the "Bearer of Light" but when Kip suggests he is the Lightbringer, he attempts to claim that moniker as well. So he obviously believes himself to be that person/role.
Second big takeaway, you've all obviously connected that the phrase "light cannot be chained" is connected to Lord Omnichrome's people/philosophy, The Order of the Broken Eye, and most significantly since I reminded you of it, to Abaddon, the King of Demons and the most powerful of Orholam's Fallen... Something to keep in mind...maybe the whole light cannot be chained thing isn't exactly the best route to travel...just saying...
And lastly, at the end Tremblefist's dying words to Ironfist! In that speech, he proclaims that Ironfist has made oaths to the Bearer of Light and the Maker of Light, more or less archenemies. Now this could be seen as saying "you've made oaths to Old Man of the Desert (Order of the Broken Eye) and the Lightbringer (Kip, maybe). Or on a more cosmic, philosophic, and religious sense (more likely), " you've made oaths to Orholam (God for Bible parallel) and Abaddon (Lucifer for Bible parallel)
One more thing, the seed crystals call out to their drafter. With the black crystal being kept by Grinwoody, I imagine he'll search for Gavin (Dazen) just to know where it is, I could see it calling out to Gavin (dazen). Some people could see him as becoming the bane, but I don't think so. I think by letting himself be blinded and not using the black luxin, he's on his penance path. I think he'll resist the temptation when it comes. What's more, someone noted how the Color Prince manipulated the Black luxin and killed the Blue God before he could betray him. I could easily see him becoming the Black Bane.
What's more, I could see Gavin somehow either becoming the embodiment of White Luxin (would that be a bane at all though?) I think Janis merely called Gavin's color black because he would later use it at sundered Rock. Another theory is that perhaps the color Prince merely found the black luxin that gavin created at Sundered rock and shaped it.
Anyway, just some thoughts on the book after my second readthrough, I'd like to hear what everyone thinks!
Especially Mr. Weeks, any and all tips (even the tiniest) would be awesome to hear!