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Where the Crawdads Sing discussion, spoilers
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I loved this book. I did find it believable in the era that it was set.
I really enjoyed this book, too, but with a big caveat. I found it frustrating that a scientist would so much disregard geography. I grew up in North Carolina and moved away when I was 16. I've been back in the Asheville area for about a dozen years. I mentioned this on the "What I'm Reading" thread. There is no way someone who lived in Coastal NC would go to Asheville to get provisions. Asheville is a pretty small city even today, and back in the 60s it was even less bustling. Folks might go to Greenville or even Raleigh for big items if they lived on the coast. It's a good seven-hour drive from any part of the coast of NC to Asheville. When I was a kid, my father took me fishing on a creek which was a tributary of the Roanoke River. There was a lot of marsh around. Not once did I ever see a palmetto tree or bush. Lots of cypress, pines, oaks, but no palmettos. I even looked up to see what kind of vegetations grows in NC marshes, and palmetto was listed as rare and only in the very southeast part of the state near South Carolina. So for an author to place her heroine in palmetto scrub so often was disconcerting for me.
That said, I loved the characters of Kya and Tate.
I am in the middle of reading it now, Donna. Will be back later.
During the first two-thirds of the book, I thought that the outstanding moments were the naturalist descriptions of the marsh. After reading Sherry's comments in the What I'm Reading thread, I realized that Owens may have been describing, in part, what she had seen growing up in southern Georgia. However, they were still compelling. I was beginning to lose interest though until Kya was arrested and the trial began. Then, it became a page turner. I had a few criticisms of the trial though. My husband is a recently retired trial attorney and no court I've seen him in would allow as much leading of the witnesses as was done by the prosecutor. I decided, however, that this was a small town and I would let go of my skepticism.
The trial left me with some questions that were never resolved, primarily the source of the red fibers. But, the ending answered them for me. Somehow, I didn't expect that answer until it happened.
I admit that had I not known a lot about North Carolina, I wouldn't have objected to anything in the book. I suspected the end, especially after the praying mantis descriptions.
Having spent time in the coastal Carolinas, I have to agree that the NC setting is suspect, unless it is in the extreme southern end, where there are marshes and some native palmettos. But that makes the idea of traveling to Asheville even more improbable. This is most disappointing and so avoidable with a little research. It's not a criticism that I've seen anywhere else, though.One thingI loved about the book was the way in which Kyra applied her observations of the natural world to humans. Using descriptive phrases to describe the girls and the mating of insects to figure out how to lure and eventually eliminate her mate. Her belief that her mother would return also was based on her observations of mothers in nature. Reading about how she was able to avoid the truant officers and cover her tracks led me to suspect her early on.
My belief was stretched a bit with how prodigious Kyra became in terms of her reading in such a short time with just elemental teaching and a few books.
I was not as enthralled with this book as I might have been. Probably my fault, because in the last few months this is the third book I’ve read with a plucky young half-wild girl (Before We Were Yours, Salvage the Bones, Where the Crawdads Sing) so I’m about at my allowable quota for this kind of book. That said, there were parts I quite enjoyed, but also parts where my belief needed a lot of help with suspension. Alone that long at that tender age and managing??? Reading her first words one week and Encyclopedia Britannica the next? And then it turns out she's a poet, too? (Although an abysmally bad one.) All told, she was just a little too much of a muchness, as my grandmother used to say. Following on Sherry’s observation about the setting I found another egregious (but minor) error almost at the end: “Kya fried corn fritters in Ma’s old iron skillet—blackened and dented—...” I love my black iron skillet. I’ve been using it for 62 years. Old, it is. Blackened it is. But DENTED??? No way to dent one of them things. Cracked, maybe…
I caught the dented iron pan too. Nothing could dent one of those things.
Ruth, I thought about you when I read the poetry. I finally just had to skim it.
Agreed - the poetry was bad. Skimmed it, too.
Ditto on the poetry. I also didn't buy Kya as the murderess. My review explains why: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show....
It came out of left field for me, Anne. I’ve been uncomrtable with it as an ending, but couldn’t put my finger on why. You’ve explained it very well.
I read this one awhile ago, and didn't reread it. I remember enjoying the environmental descriptions, but have never been to the Carolinas, so appreciate Sherry's comments. The following comes from a review I wrote after reading the book: "It was hard to stop reading after getting into this one.
I have niggling minor critical thoughts (why feed the gulls when you're literally nearly starving, why didn't she testify, how did she get affordable electricity out in the boondocks of a large marshland (no mention of a generator) (I'm thinking this one might just be an oversight by the author?), why didn't her lawyer have her testify at trial (and was it because of something she told him?), and a lot of sentence fragments instead of real sentences by the author that stopped the flow for me (never necessary, I started checking)),...
but the reality is that I loved and somewhat identified with the heroine. She was very environmentally sensitive and yet a hard core survivor, and I could relate to and love both those things."
(I also likely skimmed the poetry; I read a lot, and routinely skim whenever bored).
I didn't understand why Kya wasn't able to have children. I can't think why the author made that choice. Anyone have any thoughts about that?
Or didn’t she ever get an illness that required a doctor? Have a tooth ache that required a dentist?
Donna wrote: "Or didn’t she ever get an illness that required a doctor? Have a tooth ache that required a dentist?"Right. I wondered the same thing while reading the book. Thank you for reminding me.
Like Ruth, I find it difficult to believe that Kya could survive alone at such a young age. She could easily have frozen to death.The whole murder didn't make any sense. It said she had fifty minutes to do the whole thing, and she wore one disguise to get back to town and another to leave again. Where were the disguises and what did she do with them after the murder? Why didn't Tate mention to the lawyer that he had given the red hat to Kya just a few months before? The bus was late, and Chase just waited around for her when she wasn't there?? The whole thing is ridiculous.
I did enjoy the descriptions of nature, and I liked Kya, Tate, Jumpin' and Mabel. I even gave the book four stars even though I considered giving it only three because much of it wasn't plausible.
I just finished this one. I really liked the first part of the book. The nature descriptions (wherever they may have taken place :-), were beautiful and helped me understand why Kya loved her surroundings and the wildlife so much.I have only visited one marsh and that was in Louisiana, not far from New Orleans, so the author could easily fool me with her descriptions. However, I know how jarring it can be when a writer puts something in a book that you know from personal experience makes no sense in real life.
I liked Tate in the beginning, but I didn't think he was sufficiently developed as a character. He served his purpose of being the "true love" interest. Chase surprised me by having some complexity. He was clever enough not to rush her into sex.
Where the author really lost me was the trial and its aftermath. I could never believe that such a shy, inexperienced wild child could plan and execute such a calculated murder involving disguises, multiple bus trips, and sneaking back in and out of town in record time.
During the trial, I thought it was preposterous that the prosecutor could even propose that scenario. Still do.
There was a good interview with the author on the CBS Sunday morning show. They said she worked on this first novel for 10 years, and I thought they said that she was 70 years old. Of course, she was a award winning nature writer before that.
Ann, I completely agree with you about the trial and the murder. I wrote about that in my review and it was mentioned by others on this thread. So, you are not alone in your disbelief.I also saw the author interviewed. Don't know if it was the same one you saw, but she focused a lot on her experiences of isolation while doing research. That was the main thing she wanted to bring to the novel, which I think she did well. She also stated that writing a novel was really freeing and fun (and easy?) compared to the scientific writing she was used to doing for many years.
Anne, I think it was the same interview because I remember her emphasizing the sense of isolation and loneliness in the novel. That certainly was a main theme in the book. Owens certainly has an interesting background - growing up in Georgia, getting a PHD in animal behavior, spending many years in Africa with her now ex-husband doing scientific research, and now living in an isolated area of Idaho. She must also have felt that tug between love of the wild and yet also the desire for human connections,
I think it's cool that she published her first novel around the age of 70.
Regarding the poetry in the novel, I didn't find it as jarring as those of you who know much more about poetry that I do, but I thought it was awfully strange that she kept quoting from the obscure local poet. Mystery solved at the end. Interesting that Tate also considered the poems bad and burned them. I wonder if Owens' editors had any role in that plot development.Did any of you catch on earlier that Kya was the poet?
I thought the poetry was strange but I didn't really think Kya was the poet. I thought Tate burned the poetry because the final poem contained evidence that Kya had killed Chase.And speaking of that murder, I didn't have as much trouble with that aspect of the book as others did. Once I agreed to forgo a large dose of credulity to accept the premise of a child not only surviving alone in the wilderness but becoming a nature expert and successful author in a relatively short period of time (which I happily did, because it’s fiction after all), the ending made sense. In fact it’s the only ending that could make sense.
According to Owens, she wrote the ending first, then worked backwards and she left bread crumbs all along the way. Kya’s observations of the natural world made her an expert at the efficacy of camouflage - thus the disguises on the bus. The short time line due to the delay of the bus? - at one point in the story, Kya demonstrates her ability to run at break neck speed through the marshes. No footprints? - Kya proved herself to be untraceable several times when people pursued her. True, she was not well versed in the ways of bus schedules, etc., but she had been to the motel before and no doubt used her extraordinary and well-honed observational skills to take note of and remember her surroundings. Her observations of the fireflies taught her about how females lured males. Her observation of the female praying mantis (I think) biting off the head of the its mate was also a foreshadowing. This was her school and the laws of nature were her moral code. She had no choice but to kill Chase - for her, it was a kill or be killed, survival of the fittest mentality. She knew Chase would come for her sooner or later. She was socially backward but she obviously had an exceptional intellect and will. I thought the novel was internally consistent.
Donna, I find your argument interesting and convincing on an intellectual level. It's true that if I think about every aspect of life Kya learned from living in the swamp that she learned about disguise, kill or be killed, etc.. But, for me, in any mystery the clues need to come together in such a way that I have a wonderful "aha moment." Like, I see now how all the pieces fit together. That didn't happen for me with this book. Instead, as stated earlier, my feeling was more like, ok, I see what Owens tried to do here but it didn't quite work. I still gave the book 4 stars and think it was a very good read. I look forward to her next novel, if there will be a next one. Hope we don't have to wait ten years.
I understand what you are saying, Anne. Maybe what's missing is more insight to Kya's thought processes and emotions. While Kya matured physically, grew in knowledge and honed her survival skills, we don't get much of her inner thought life (other than being very lonely and wondering why everyone has left her) or how she grew emotionally, if indeed she did. This would have led the reader to better understand the why not just the how of her actions. I think the author tried to show "inner dialogue" with the poetry, but it didn't quite work.
I think you may be right, Donna, though I suppose showing too much of her inner dialogue re: the murder might have given too much away.
Inner dialog tends to slow things down with all tell and no show. I think the trick to success would have been to use images and action to portray how she felt and thoughts.
Just got this from the library today so I'm jumping in.
Great, Gina. Let us know what you think.
Just finished this book today. I didn't feel comfortable with the poetry either. I felt it was forced in places that had no need for it. And the reveal that she committed the murder shocked me. I loved the descriptions of the marsh, but I don't like to read books that mislead the reader. As a story, I was hooked from the beginning. I think it would make a good movie.
Many in the group agree with you, Gina. Good writing and a good story but not without flaws.
I just saw that my local Asheville book store Malaprops is having Delia Owens come for a talk about Crawdads. I'm tempted to go and bring up all the weird Asheville geography stuff, but I expect others will take care of that. It's not a big store, and since this is a popular book, I expect it will be very crowded.
It would be nice to be a fly on the wall for that one, Sherry.
I wonder if the author reads goodreads comments. I have When the Crawdad Sings but am hesitant to read it because of comments here. I knew it was a best seller...I'm always suspicious of best sellers...although I actually love some of them. Instead, I'm reading Louise Erdrich's book La Rose, which I think is wonderfully written and very powerful, for the next Constant Reader book group.
I am joining in very late, since I have just finished the book.The discussion here reminds me of a conversation I had with 2 of my book club members who both, while reading, had to remind themselves that they were not reading about Louisiana but NC. Apparently the word crawdads in the title evoked Louisiana for both of them.
I also found Kya's rise from illiteracy to PhD level book writing, her art proficiency without any training whatsoever, seemed like a stretch. She was pretty inarticulate, even after she learned basic reading skills. And she had no adult interaction during her life except Jumpin and Mabel. It just seemed too much. But I agree that if you accept the premise of this fiction, the book is a very enjoyable read.
As for the crime/trial part of the book, I also wondered why she wasn't called to testify on her own behalf. I suppose she could have been deemed by her attorney that she was too inarticulate to give herself a good defense, but I am inventing that explanation.
Ruth, I would add the nonfiction book Educated to your list of scrappy-girl-makes-good.
I had no problem with Kya NOT testifying at her trial. Every good defense attorney will discourage his client from testifying. You are NOT required to do so.
I began this book to be part of the Goodreads "Constant Reader" discussion. The discussion had started, and when I looked at comments, the fact that people questioned the author's geographical research, and several plot devices made me hesitate. I tried a few more chapters and gave up...those who found these faults, thought that the writing was often lyrical and that several of the characters were compelling. A friend had listened to the audio version and loved it, so I gave it another try. I really didn't like this book until I began to read it as though it were a fairy tale. I think some of its lack of realism fits with the romantic hero and the evil villain, the magical pace at which Kya learns; her abandonment in the wild; the way she discovers to protect herself from the animals and insects; her "fairy god-parents." The mystery is also somewhat implausible. But it was a fairytale ending...satisfying in exactly that way. So glad I stayed with it.
I often find best sellers far too light-weight to enjoy...although occasionally, after a particular dense piece of non-fiction, or a literary masterpiece I want to read a fairly simple page-turner. Where the Crawdad Sings feels like its own kind of book, neither high-brow, nor light weight. Very much like the books I loved from the time I was eight until I was a teen. My expectations were simply too narrow and too rigid. Thanks, Anne, and Constant Readers for encouraging me.
Here are parts I loved: When the main character, Kya's friend Tate begins to teach her the the sounds that letters and letter combinations make, with Tate's help she makes out her first sentence..."There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot." Kya simply says, "Oh." "You can read, Kya. There'll never be a time you cannot read." "It' aint just that," Kya whispered. "I wadn't aware that words could hold so much. I didn't know a sentence could be so full."
That may be my favorite passage in the book. Even though the phonetic difficulty of that sentence is pretty astounding. Several people in the discussion had trouble believing Kya learned to read so quickly. She's quickly reading on her own. But Tate is sitting beside her day after day "teaching her how to read the words.." Yes, she learned quickly but she's reading from a book about the animals and the land where she lives. It's her life. No family, no TV. Just this friend and a few books and a pencil and paper to copy the words in the book. Pretty high intensity learning.
Also, the part about Chase taking her to Asheville: Of course! It's a way to have to stay overnight. That's an important plot point. And the fact that Tate's parents drive to Asheville because the local bike shop doesn't have the bike he wants...maybe that's far fetched since there are closer options. Not sure. Anyway. Once I got over that and switched off my critical voice, I loved the book the way I loved reading as a child...although none of the books included sex until I was will into my teens. I'm pretty old, so...
Jane, I think you captured the essence of the appeal of this book for so many. It does have a fairy tale quality - like a V. C. Andrews book (Flowers in the Attic, etc. ) only more sophisticated and with the benefits of some beautiful nature writing.
Ms. Owens is a zoologist and a naturalist who spent decades with her husband in the African wilderness, isolated from society and studying animal behavior. She co-authored three international best-selling books about nature, however, this is her first foray into fiction writing. Where the Crawdads Sing has also become a best-seller and the winner of the Goodreads Choice Awards Best Historical Fiction and the Edgar Award for Best First Novel by an American Author. It is being explored by Reese Witherspoon for movie development.
This novel provides rich options for discussion with several underlying themes, a compelling storyline and - a murder! To get us started, I’ll offer this point to ponder. When asked about her setting in the North Carolina marshes, Owens stated her choice was based on her desire to have the novel be “believable.” Do you think she succeeded in her goal to write a novel that is believable? Were there aspects of the story that you found less so and why?
Here are links to some interviews with the author:
https://www.bookbrowse.com/author_int...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t43OD...
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/...