03/2019 The Sound of the Mountain, by Yasunari Kawabata

[Carol]

This is our thread for our March discussion of Yasunari Kawabata’s The Sound of the Mountain, first published in 1954 in Japan as Yama no Oto.

I may not get to start until Thursday, but am looking forward to this read.

[Tim]

I have some... mixed thoughts so far. I'm keeping this spoiler free, but one thing I need to comment upon is the idea of faulty memory presented throughout. I bring it up, because I swear this book is written in a style that makes me forget constantly what is happening. I stopped it and started reading another book (No County for Old Men) and I have no problem retaining information from it, but I cannot for the life of me keep this book in my head.

I think this is in part due to the mini time skips throughout. A conversation will happen and then the narration will say something like "this was two days ago." It makes me feel disoriented (especially given the mostly plotless nature of the novel and the fact that there are quite a few characters to keep up with). I don't know if this was to make the reader feel like Shingo, but it is certainly hitting me that way.

I'm genuinely curious if anyone else feels this way, or is it just me?

[Alan M]

I'm like Carol, I may not get going til later in the week. But I do have a copy, a real physical actual paper-based book, and I'm so excited. I feel like I've missed the last few group reads cos I couldn't get them, but the next 3 I'm sorted for. Excellent.

[Jeshika]

Tim wrote: "I have some... mixed thoughts so far. I'm keeping this spoiler free, but one thing I need to comment upon is the idea of faulty memory presented throughout. I bring it up, because I swear this book..."

I'm only about 12 pages in and I'm already having this problem. I remember nothing about what happened so far but I know it was jarring, confusing and something about a mountain roaring... I'm still looking forward to continuing it though.

[Jeshika]

So, I’ve read another few pages at I’m at a point where Yasuko says she had a dream about her old house falling apart (page 40-41, in my edition) and then later Shingo says he finds it unsettling that his daughter fled to the house he saw ruined in his dreams (page 45). I don’t know if I missed something or if that’s intentional but my confusion is real...

I’m really intrigued by this book but I’m so worried I’ll just lose all track when I have to stop and put it down.

[Agnetta]

Oh boy oh boy. And on top I bought it in italian, my least fluent foreign language. This will be an experience. Dreading to start .... maybe i will have to ask you all to enlighten me in this string using spoiler tags each time I am lost...

[Jeshika]

I finished. I’m not good at looking critically at things or assessing them well so I look forward to seeing what other people get out of this book.

[Bill]

The translation might also be getting in the way, but Kawabata is known for being vague in Japanese, which probably puts a heavy burden on the translator to be both faithful and comprehensible. I have Seidensticker's translation, and it's got some unnatural English where he appears to be trying too hard to be literal.

Shingo's thoughts flow in odd vague, segueing from one incident to another without care for how they were originally sequenced. I don't find it totally disorienting, but have to double check something on occasion.

The part I had to reread a couple of time and still don't get is the circumstances of Shingo & Yasuko's marriage. Was or was not Shingo married to Yasuko's sister first?

Only on page 21 so far, the start of chapter two.

This copy is old and yellowed, apparently printed in 1981. Perhaps it's a suitable way to read about an old man...

[Bill]

Tim:
Almost halfway in, I find that the time-skipping is either becoming less frequent or I'm noticing it less. Perhaps it just takes time to get used to the style.

Jeshika:
Regarding Yasuko's dream of her old house falling apart, Shingo is concerned about their daughter moving into it since Yasuko's dream may be a premonition of the house falling apart on their daughter or of general ill-fortune for her.

I've been reading The Sound of the Mountain as the story of a family that has problems but remains functional for its members, told mainly through the lens of Shingo and (nearly as much) of Yasuko. The other characters rarely speak their minds.

Around page 100 we get an interesting question from one of the most silent characters in the novel, Shuichi. Is Shingo a success? Judged from the relationships of his children, he isn't, says Shuichi. My first reaction was that I wanted to smack Shuichi ("How dare you! It's your fault for having an affair, not your father's!") But after that we, along with Shingo, can try to evaluate what we know of his life to see if he can be called a success. I'll leave that for later when more people have finished.

[Jeshika]

Haha, some of the "Is Shingo a success or failure because of XXX?" stuff really rubbed me the wrong way, especially, as you mentioned, about Shuichi's affair. I had to take a step back and think about the time and setting of the book for that because I'm assuming it's more of a historical/cultural thing, maybe? The treatment of Fusako amazed me too, and not in a good way. The "why is our daughter a sad, ugly failure?" attitude just... I'm mind blown.

Shingo and Yasuko's history confused me too, I was trying to work out if Shingo and her sister had been married or if he just loved her sister from afar... I think I'm more towards the latter, but I'm not at all sure... Did you work it out in the end, Bill?

Despite all of the teeth grinding parts, I really did enjoy reading their family story and I found it a lot less jarring as I got more invested.

[Bill]

Yes, I did figure that out. I don't think it's a spoiler to reveal, since I don't think it was intentionally obscured by the author. At some point in Shingo's stream of memories he recounts Yasuko's sister's funeral and his impressions of the her widower. So it clearly wasn't himself :)

I'm at the 3/4 mark now. I thought I would have finished by now, but it's not the sort of book you read all at once. I read a chapter, and then go do something else (like read a different book!)

[Christian]

The very beginning was a little confusing, but Shingo doesn't really have much memory problems afterwards. I think there's something to the translation, as Bill says. From Kawabata I once read Snow Country in English and disliked it. Later, I loved the Old Capital in French and now this one I also liked... go figure. I definitely need to re-read Snow Country in French.

Japanese authors really have a thing with dreams. At least, in this case, the author almost always explain them. I used to struggle with dream scenes in other novels, because I'm never sure of what they're adding to the story. I guess it's a way to change the narration, going from statements about Shingo's state of mind to metaphors about it.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the story and the characters. It's sort of the classical 'family saga' story, but I was pleasantly surprised they were no abrupt time skips (like, one generation later...) It was interesting to have the main character be older than the generation that went to war. The fact that Shuichi and her mistress experienced the war more personally seems to give them some higher status than one would expect vs. Shingo. Or maybe it's just that coming back from war, the social expectations don't seem all that important to them anymore.

The forbidden love between Kikuko and Shingo was very finely written. Shingo wants to restore his son's and his daughter's relationship, yet entertains his own disruptive feelings about his daughter-in-law. It seems alluded that this was at least partially reciprocal, what do you think?

[Bill]

I definitely see reciprocity in Shingo & Kikuko's relationship. Their warmth grows out of each fulfilling their traditional roles in the family and seeing the same acceptance of responsibility in the other. Unlike the way, say, Tanizaki would write it, there isn't a sexual undertone.

I'm still unclear on what the primary plotline of the novel is. The sound of the mountain (which should foretell an incident in the primary plotline) occurs just before Fusako moves back in made me think hers in the primary, but she gets far less page-time than the other characters. Much more is devoted to Shuichi's affair and its resolution, though the sound of the mountain doesn't occur at a critical time in that relationship (perhaps one could see it as a premonition of Shingo learning of the affair?)

Is Shingo a success? Would Japanese readers 'blame' him for the troubles in his children's marriages? I think they would place some blame on him for the failure of Fusako's marriage, since he should have learned more about her husband before allowing the marriage. Yet in my mind he makes up for this by accepting his daughter back into the family and helping her to find a new path in life. I also think he fulfills his responsibilities to Shuichi and Kikuko by setting a good example (being a faithful husband), at least somewhat admonishing Shuichi, and doing what he can to disrupt the affair.

Despite his protestations that his is a small company, Shingo is the head of it. Anyone would see that as a success. And owning his own home, one large enough to house his children and grandchildren is a consequence that people would also see as success. He has continued to support and do right by his children, providing for the next two generations, which is the question he sees as central to answering whether he is a success or not. So why would he not see himself as one?

[Agnetta]

I am half way in.

So far i think the real topic Kawabata is exploring here. is how in human life in society it is just absolutely impossible to live an open, transparent life. All characters act on the outside according to some guiding principles, while their feelings go the other way...

Some are giving in more to their desires or inclinations, others are firmer in fulfilling their responsibilities, but all seem to him internal different desires or feelings. However even the ones who give in (Shuichi) will not do so openly and everybody tries to somehow uphold appearances.

On the other hand we have the true encounters with nature, which seem to be really pure and open.

So I think it is about these questions: Could we live a more authentic life ? Could we interact with ourselves and our fellow humans with the same innocence as when we look at a sunflower and are marveled by it, or enjoy the sight of a playing dog ?

Then we have the sound of the mountain, as a failed direct encounter with nature, as his observation of the sound seemed to be nothing more than a sound produced by his own ears... Another indication of how difficult it is for a human to have authentic, direct access to experiences.

[Suki]

My Mom died in March, so I wasn't able to focus on reading for a while. I had been about halfway through the book, and I restarted it a couple of days ago. Shingo is not that much older than I am (55), so I read the story as him reflecting back on his life and family, and wondering what his future holds for him as his old friends are dying. I thought the book was beautifully written, especially the descriptions of nature which were very poetic. The difference between Japanese and Western culture really stands out in the way that the problems in the children's lives are hung as failures on the father, and the way it seems to be Shingo who is expected to clean up the aftermath of his son's affair, rather than the responsibility of Shuichi himself. I definitely want to read more Kawabata.

[Carol]

Suki wrote: "My Mom died in March, so I wasn't able to focus on reading for a while. I had been about halfway through the book, and I restarted it a couple of days ago. Shingo is not that much older than I am (..."

I’m sorry for your loss, Suki. Take care.

[Suki]

Carol wrote: "Suki wrote: "My Mom died in March, so I wasn't able to focus on reading for a while. I had been about halfway through the book, and I restarted it a couple of days ago. Shingo is not that much olde..."

Thanks, Carol. ♡

[Alan M]

Right, so I'm way late getting to read this one, but I have started. Yay me! I really felt guilty about wanting to start on Requiem for this month without reading this one! About 50 pages in, and having read the other comments I feel OK about my slight disorientatedness (is that a word?)

It feels like a combination of different culture, a different time, and different language all mix in with the haziness of a character's failing memory. Sure fire recipe for a general feeling of elusiveness. Shingo's pov is full of words like possibly, maybe, probably... Absolute meaning and clarity are always just out of reach. If that was what Kawabata was after then it's working. The family relationships are starting to play out now, so I'm intrigued to see how it all develops. Good stuff so far, though.

[Alan M]

It's the small things that seem to register most in Kawabata's subtle style. Shingo has a pocket watch and a wristwatch on his desk (p79 in my edition), The wristwatch is 2 mins ahead of the other: 'It was seldom that the two were exactly together, which fact sometimes bothered him.' In such a simple, everyday thing there seems so much symbolism packed in, reinforcing the idea of things just being slightly out of kilter.

[Alan M]

Finished - wow. One of those books that I will need to revisit to just figure out some of the layers of meaning. Kawabata's the kind of writer where every single word is important, so pared back is his style. Everything seems to have multiple possible meanings or references - what particular kind of flower or plant is being discussed, what bird is mentioned, etc. Subtle and quiet - but packs a punch. I loved the last sentence - we start the book with the sound of the mountain and end it: 'She apparently could not hear him over the sound of the dishes.' Made me chuckle - but it also just emphasises the domesticity of the book, and the study of the familial relationships.

[Ian]

I set this one down and am just picking it up and hopefully will finish this soon, as prep for The Lake.

[iliana]

Hi! I am currently (super slowly...) reading The sound of the mountain (this and the master of go are the only novels left to read by the author) and halfway through I really don't like it very much... I found the story a bit odd and I'm not really interested in the characters or the plot at all... I also find the main character a bit annoying... haha who knew! I can see that I have very unpopular opinions sometimes... Having said the above, the author may still surprise me in the end, since this has happened before, with several of his books ending up being a 5-star read due to the overall closure and synthesis/rhythm, even if they started as a 1-2-star...! He is one of my favorite authors still, however.