Omnipresence

[Rod]

The problem with theology is:

Words.

Many words are somewhat vague. "Change" is such a word. Often we take 21st century understandings of words and force that on 3,000 year old text. I've met many religious scholars who worship definitions above story context.

Robert and I argued for months over his concrete understanding of "foreknowledge". He had a definition the size of a dictionary. "Omniscience" has the same problem.

I build my theology out of story content and not magic words. The bible explains the bible. If we let it.
I'm reading the bible yet again trying to undo 40 years of literary superstitions and sacred word cows.

[Rod]

"The words were translated into English pretty accurately"

I agree - and that is part of the problem, or challenge. A word like "Change"

transitive verb

1a : to make different in some particular : ALTER
never bothered to change the will
b : to make radically different : TRANSFORM
can't change human nature
c : to give a different position, course, or direction to
changed his residence from Ohio to California
2a : to replace with another
let's change the subject
b : to make a shift from one to another : SWITCH
always changes sides in an argument
c : to exchange for an equivalent sum of money (as in smaller denominations or in a foreign currency)
change a 20-dollar bill
d : to undergo a modification of
foliage changing color
e : to put fresh clothes or covering on
change a bed
intransitive verb

1 : to become different
some things never change
2 : to undergo transformation, transition, or substitution
winter changed to spring
3 : EXCHANGE, SWITCH
neither liked his seat so they changed with each other
4 : to put on different clothes
need a few minutes to change for dinner
5 : to shift one's means of conveyance : TRANSFER
on the bus trip he had to change twice
6 of the voice : to shift to lower register : BREAK
His voice started to change when he turned 13.
7 of the moon : to pass from one phase (see PHASE entry 1 sense 1) to another
change hands
: to pass from the possession of one owner to that of another
money changes hands many times
change noun
Definition of change (Entry 2 of 2)
1 : the act, process, or result of changing: such as
a : ALTERATION
a change in the weather
b : TRANSFORMATION
a time of vast social change
going through changes
c : SUBSTITUTION
a change of scenery
d : the passage of the moon from one monthly revolution (see REVOLUTION sense 1a) to another
also : the passage of the moon from one phase (see PHASE entry 1 sense 1) to another
e : MENOPAUSE
2a : money in small denominations received in exchange for an equivalent sum in larger denominations
b : money returned when a payment exceeds the amount due
a cashier quick at making change
c : coins especially of low denominations
a pocketful of change
d : a negligible additional amount
only six minutes and change left in the game
e : MONEY sense 1
cost a large chunk of change
3 : a fresh set of clothes
4 British : EXCHANGE sense 5a
5 : CHANGEUP
6 : an order in which a set of bells is struck in change ringing


Change is TOO LARGE a word not to have specifics attached to it. I think God using this shows His sense of humor and how stupid we can be when we assume we have fully and stubbornly grasped something. I've had Muslims throw and wave this "Change" word at me for months. They assume it meant only ONE SACRED THING and would not hear or even comprehend any questioning of their term. Honestly, they say "God becoming Jesus was a change - and God can never change, so he cannot become Jesus". ----- I say, WHAT if God always WAS Jesus? this just moves the bar of course. But is this the correct usage of the word "Change"? Says who? I say the story itself explains its use of the word.

I think what God means by "Change" is much much larger than our human assumptions.

fun topic.

[Robert]

Rod - and it is dwarfed by the ever-expanding definitions??? of "love".

[Rod]

Now Love: there’s s messy abused word.