Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Phantastes
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Phantastes: Chapters IX through XII
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After reading this portion, I wonder even more: what does his shadow mean? Is it something he should combat and defeat or he should incorporate it in his individuality as a part of maturation? Though the shadow had a malign effect on him, it also made Anodos think and doubt. Knowing what had happened before, I think it is not the worst transformation for him.David wrote: "The rest is on procreation and child birth, or child finding in the case of fairy land inhabitants. Some seemed to take the news of more earthly procedures very badly. I wonder why? "
This story is so strange and so inconsistent with everything we knew before about fairy land, that I doubt whether it describes fairy land, not another world. David wrote in another discussion that everything Anodos had read affected what happened to him afterwards, so I wonder if this is still a case with this story.
I read this section and what stood out to me the most was not what his shadow does or does not represent, but rather, the fact that he know in his guy that his shadow is malignant, but goes through a period of rationalization, and self-justification of how the shadow might be helpful. It is almost as if to say he was proud that he has this one vice of his (his shadow) so at least he knows and be confident that he is worldly, or knowing, or rational. I wonder how much of this aspect relates to MacDonald's experience as a Christian preacher.
Kyle wrote: "I read this section and what stood out to me the most was not what his shadow does or does not represent, but rather, the fact that he know in his guy that his shadow is malignant, but goes through..."I think as a preacher he Had to know a lot about of rationalization and self-justification. But you know, Kyle, want you or not, you have stated that shadow is malign and should be confronted. Since you mentioned vice and preacher's experience, I almost convinced that it is true.
David wrote: "What is going on with the lead in poem?“From Eden’s bowers the full-fed rivers flow,
To guide the outcasts to the land of woe:
Our Earth one little toiling streamlet yields,
To guide the wanderers to the happy fields..."
A suggestion:
Eden/paradise with its full rivers expels the outcasts (Adam and Eve?) to the land of woe (earth?) i.e. Adam and Eve after the fall.
By contrast with Eden's full flowing rivers, our earth has a puny little stream ("toiling streamlet") with which it guides seekers to the happy fields (paradise). In other words, the path to paradise is narrow (difficult) and requires effort ("toil"). We have to struggle to get to the happy fields.
That's the best I can do!
The shadow appears to make him re-see things in a negative light. Anodos sees a child with two wondrous, toys—a tube used by the fairy-gifted poet and another which enables him to combine images of beauty. The child’s head has an auereole of emanating rays. All positive and magical descriptions.
But his perception changes as soon as the child is immersed in the shadow. The child becomes a commonplace boy; the toys are reduced to a multiplying glass and kaleidoscope. The knight’s armour does not shine as red as before.
It’s as if the shadow is interfering with his ability to perceive imaginatively. Things that were once magical and wondrous are reduced to the mundane.
And then you get the incident with the globe. He walks merrily along with the child carrying the globe. No issues. But then he tells us,
This day, however, as we went on, the shadow glided round and inwrapt the maiden. It could not change her. But my desire to know about the globe, which in his gloom began to waver as with an inward light, and to shoot out flashes of many-coloured flame, grew irresistible. I put out both my hands and laid hold of it.
He grabs the globe only after the shadow has wrapped itself around the little girl.
So the shadow here seems to do two things: reduce everything to its pedestrian level; trigger him to be possessive and destructive.
I just have to say that his obsession with beautiful women and his desire to love and be loved by beautiful women is beginning to get a bit creepy.
Concerning the globe incident:I had never been able to learn anything about the globe. This day, however. . .the shadow glided round and inwrapt the maiden. . .my desire to know about the globe. . .grew irresistible.Instead of being content with the childlike wonder at phenomenon that the globe represents, he wanted to "learn" empirically how the globe operated. This need to know is then, unfortunately, demonstrated to be a destructive force, and one of probably several vices represented by Anodos' shadow. It seems material knowledge, or its pursuit is a bad thing.
David wrote: "Concerning the globe incident:I had never been able to learn anything about the globe. This day, however. . .the shadow glided round and inwrapt the maiden. . .my desire to know about the globe...."
This entire scene with the maiden and the globe has echoes of Adam and Eve in the Garden Eden and the apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
The maiden beguiles Andodos with the globe which has a certain power. He is interested, but doesn't really challenge the maiden at first. Only when the shadow (perhaps a metaphor for Original Sin?) envelops the maiden, does he grab the globe, and it shatters. It is innocence that was irretrieveably shattered when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit.
Tamara wrote: "I just have to say that his obsession with beautiful women and with his desire to love and be loved by beautiful women is beginning to get a bit creepy."He is obsessed not only with beautiful women but with all shining and cute things and persons. He childishly lusts for shining objects, and when the shadow tarnish them he loses interest and even despised them. If he would learn to see beauty in everyday life.
His desire to love and be loved does not concern only with lust or lust for beauty - he seeks mother figure. What creepy is that these desires are tightly interwound.
If Fairy Land is a deptiction of the Garden Eden, could Anodos be Adam before he had a helpmate, before God made Eve? In any case, he is alone, and at the beginning of the tale he was very much aware of it and felt his loneliness keenly. He has been out of his element for some time now. Is it any surprise that any creature who resembles a female human he feels drawn to? It didn't appear to me so much as being creepy, more like being lonely.
I mostly agree with Alexey's reading. Anodos has been cast out of the familiar and regressed (or rather, his inner immaturity has come to the surface); he reaches for anything that promises to respond to his needs with infantile inattention to the possible consequences of his actions. When he fails to be satisfied or causes harm, he drifts on.For MacDonald, the nurturing mother is always a symbol of the divine. Anodos is continually meeting these figures and taking selfish advantage of them. He demands love and attachment on their part even as he is blown about by his own restlessness, heedless of the needs of others.
As I continue to read this book, I'm finding myself less and less drawn to finding significance in any of the passages. For me, most of the text doesn't strike me as allegorical, so much as it strikes me as poetic, or almost something like a guided meditation. There are no right thoughts or wrong thoughts, just Anados really "noticing" what's around him (and MacDonald, doing a brilliant job of expressing that description in a visceral way). Whether Anados keeps moving on in the next few chapters or whether he stays for a while, it is lovely to be immersed in a world that is so different from the one we experience here on this planet every day.
Rex wrote: "For MacDonald, the nurturing mother is always a symbol of the divine. Anodos is continually meeting these figures and taking selfish advantage of them. He demands love and attachment on their part even as he is blown about by his own restlessness, heedless of the needs of others. "I totally agree with you and that always struck me in this novel, because Anodos does not seem to be a bad person and behave so selfish and cause damage by acting so. I explain it to myself, by shallow egocentricity of youth, which we often bring with us to much more mature age. As I understand for MacDonald capability of sacrifice one's ego is the sign of the grown-up man.
I'm beginning to think that perhaps it's a mistake to try to understand the events as having a logical cause and effect and/or expect them to be connected in any way. Someone said it in an earlier post (Roger?) that the whole thing has a dream like quality. And just as in dreams where normal rules don't apply, we shouldn't expect to find logical connections.
Yes, this is about integrating a fantastic but holy imagination into one's mental life, and strict logic isn't to be expected. And it seems to work: I couldn't sleep at 4 AM today, picked up and read a chapter of Phantastes, then fell asleep listening to a lecture on MacDonald. I had a set of vivid dreams and woke at 8 feeling much better.
Alexey wrote: "I totally agree with you and that always struck me in this novel, because Anodos does not seem to be a bad person and behave so selfish and cause damage by acting so. I explain it to myself, by shallow egocentricity of youth, which we often bring with us to much more mature age. As I understand for MacDonald capability of sacrifice one's ego is the sign of the grown-up man."This makes more sense than anything else my "scattered" brain put together. I think with discussions like these I am so intent to not missing details that I forget to let the whole sink in.
I was struck by his descriptions of the Fairy Queen's palace. It reminded me a little of St. Teresa of Avila's The Interior Castle. Magnificent, shining white, rooms upon rooms, fountains, knowledge (library) etc. Also his swimming in the pool, yet feeling it was like the ocean threw me back to the previous section when he was in the ogre's cottage. She was reading aloud about the light & dark, fountains & wells ..from secret channels of its mighty sea. Someone had noted that often the stories read seem to foreshadow events to follow.
Anodos walks on with his autonomous shadow disenchanting the wonders he sees, even souring his perception of Sir Percival, who had avoided trouble as a byproduct of his performance of good deeds. At first Anodos tries to rationalize seeing things as they are as a good:After breaking the maiden's globe he changes his mind back to thinking his shadow is malignant. I am not sure what to make of the whole globe breaking incident. To me this almost seems like not believing in Santa is ok for yourself, or not, but you shouldn't cause pain to others by spoiling their belief in Santa and ultimately realizing too late that the belief in Santa is a source of joy and innocence. And what is learned by the perceived ugliness or beauty of a person contingent on the distance from which they are viewed? Familiarity breeds contempt? It seems the shadow has now demonstrated it is Anodos' own vice of pride, doubt, and materialism. I am beginning to wonder if Anodos did not cause the shadow of the Ash tree's gnarled hand just before the maiden of the Beech tree saved him.
Chapter X
What is going on with the lead in poem?It seems Anodos is traveling it backwards. like following another reflection to the back from a small trickle in his bedroom to a river. Is Fairy Land, Eden by another name?
Anodos eventually puts himself afloat on a gentle river and wonders,Is that a fair assessment? Should we recall here Anodos' wondering "how can beauty and ugliness dwell so near?"
And then there is this well known apology on the problem of pain by its serving as a contrast required to recognize and appreciate joy: He finds a castle and a room with his name on it, "The Chamber of Sir Anodos" that seems to be a replica of his self-designed bedroom from which this story began. Why are his attendants and most people invisible at this point in the story?
Chapter XI
The shadow appears to recede a bit as Anodos explores the castle, finds the library and begins to read. The shadow seems reduced by the use of the imagination.
Chapter XII
He starts this one off on the wrong foot with me:The rest is on procreation and child birth, or child finding in the case of fairy land inhabitants. Some seemed to take the news of more earthly procedures very badly. I wonder why?