Who Fears Death - Part III (Jan 2019)

[Bretnie]

I'll get some second-half questions going soon, but in general, this is for discussing the book through the ending - spoilers ok!

[Bretnie]

I wasn't going to kick of the second half discussion by talking about the ending, but I found it fascinating, so let's dive in! I'm curious what people's impressions were on the multiple short chapters at the end, and the seemingly "alternative" ending?

[Bretnie]

And tied to the ending, Okorafor throws in Sudan, which is the first time that I could tell the novel was tied to a true place.

Okorafor has stated that the novel's genocide is modeled after Sudan's ethnic-cleansing. What are your impressions of using a future-based fantasy novel to address current and historic events?

This relates to other themes in the novel as well - women's traditional roles, the culture of rape and female mutilation, the role of traditional practices in a modern society.

[LindaJ^]

Okorafor has stated that the novel's genocide is modeled after Sudan's ethnic-cleansing. What are your impressions of using a future-based fantasy novel to address current and historic events?
Some of the best sci-fi, fantasy, and speculative fiction is used to address current issues. Unfortunately, genocide continues, as does misogamy, genital mutilation, racism, rape, and other big issues -- e.g., books Octavia Butler, Margaret Atwood, N.K. Jemisin, Ursula Le Guin.

[Whitney]

Bretnie wrote: "And tied to the ending, Okorafor throws in Sudan, which is the first time that I could tell the novel was tied to a true place.

Okorafor has stated that the novel's genocide is modeled after Sudan..."

I had assumed the novel was taking place in a future version of the area around Sudan, with its premise of people who look like North Africans committing acts of genocide agains people who look and talk like Subsaharan Africans. There were a couple place names that were variations of Sudanese names as well. I can't locate any now, but one was a close variation of Darfur. I was surprised when Okorafor ended the book by making it so explicit. Perhaps it was to forestall any claims that the books was a 'fantasy', and therefor not commenting on real issues.

For your question about addressing current events, I've always subscribed to the attitude of most my favorite SF writers, that speculative fiction isn't so much about predicting a future, but about exploring social issues of the present.

Definitely many thoughts about the other themes you mention, but those answers require much more considered answers. I'll be back after other people have had a chance to weigh in!

[Peter]

A different question might be: why the fantasy elements at all? To allow the reader some distance perhaps? Then why set it in the future?

[Bretnie]

This is why I love sci-fi, fantasy, and speculative fiction. Addressing very real issues with some powerful and creative narratives.

Peter, you've got me thinking about why I love novels like this. I don't want real world issues to only be solvable through fantasy. But somehow it's still empowering and inspiring to read about these created worlds where characters can do so much more than a literary fiction novel would allow.

Maybe it's just a good outlet to rage against injustice in the world.

Having it set in the future is still sinking in with me. Maybe it's a statement on how these dangerous realities are not in the past, despite so much progress. And that a just "alternative world" set in the current day would evade the issue that these things are still happening. That they could still happen in the not-distant future.

[Marc]

Hmmm... the fantasy elements allow magic and myth to intercede where technology and culture have failed to a certain extent, and they offer potential salvation through the individual(s) (one woman rewrites history and saves her people). I'm not sure the future setting really had much sway with me, since once you go post-apocalyptic it's like everything is old again except for the computer trash and some discs that felt more like convenient plot devices.

There is a lot to unwind in this novel conceptually/intellectually.

Certainly, as Bretnie already mentioned, the future never escapes the past (I found it funny when I read Gilgamesh last year that building protective walls was such a main part of today's news some 4,000+ years later).

[Whitney]

The snarky answer would be that the fantasy elements are there because it's a fantasy novel. I think about the question more as "how are the fantasy elements used in the novel?" I think Marc and Bretnie gave good answers. I'll also add that to some level, the concept of magic and sorcery isn't fantasy in some cultures, but part of their reality.

For the future setting, I though Bretnie and Marc had a good answer again in that the future never escapes the past. Reading this book, I thought of Faulkner's "The past is never dead. It's not even past". I think there's some level of pushback from Okorafor against the common idea (especially in the US) that everything is fundamentally good and just, and violence are oppression are just blips in the arc of history. In some cases, fundamental injustices are codified and justified by religion and scripture, hence The Great Book. I also think that she wanted to specifically acknowledge that this is a book addressing the horrors that people in Sudan are going through, rather than just using those horrors as fodder for an entertaining novel.

The future setting also implied a lot more about the world around the book. This was one of those where I felt like the author had thought out a lot of detail that didn't need to go into the book. It felt like the kind of "soft" apocalypse of works like Parable of the Sower (or even Mad Max :-) where things have basically just run down due to poor management of resources and environmental degradation. And maybe some limited nuclear exchanges here and there.

[Bretnie]

This is a pretty specific thought, but I've been thinking about the fact that mothers had to ask for their children to become sorcerers in this book. So much of their lives are defined by things out of their control, so I thought it was interesting to make this aspect a choice. Why wouldn't everyone just ask for their children to be sorcerers? Is it just when things are looking pretty bleak that they ask?

[Bretnie]

On another different note, I'm really curious what people thought of the ending? The short chapters felt like "PS and also this. PPS oh and also this." It left me a little frustrated that it didn't just have AN ending, but all these multiple endings. And I'm still not sure what to think about her "death." Thoughts?

[Peter]

Multiple endings are typical in myths -- each storyteller ends them in their own way. That might be what is going on here.

Alternatively, by rewriting The Book, Onyesonwu has made herself such an essential part of reality (social, physical and metaphysical) that she can't really die, she only thinks that she can. And after a bit she gets tired of thinking that she's dead.

[Whitney]

This is me taking a stab at the ending, looking forward to what others have to say.

I was not surprised that Okorafor didn't tie things up in a neat "kumbaya" bow. I think the different and contradictory endings / visions were because while a current situation has been dealt with, the future is still open. There remains a lot of bad blood that has to be worked through before the one, kumbaya-ish future can be achieved, if it will.

Onyesonwu kills the men of Durfa, but leaves the women pregnant so that it's not genocide, and she subtly rewrites the great book, removing the biggest impediments to change.

[Whitney]

On a lighter note, there were two cultural references I caught from the Great Book. There were repeated references to The Palm-Wine Drinkard. One of the first books by an African to be published in the West, it's filled with encounters with supernatural beings in the desert based on Yoruba folktales (I'm not sure if 'folktales' here is appropriate or pandering).

It was originally condemned by many for promoting an idea of Africans as ignorant and superstitious, but later taken as a model for how African beliefs are as legitimate a basis of literature as Western ones. Also, it's a great book, definitely recommended.

The other reference was to the Schoolhouse Rock song "Three, It's a Magic Number". Here's the video for those too young to remember:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU4py...

Anyone else pick up any references?

[Bretnie]

Whitney wrote: "On a lighter note, there were two cultural references I caught from the Great Book. There were repeated references to The Palm-Wine Drinkard. One of the first books by an African to b..."

Yes to Schoolhouse Rock! :)

[Bretnie]

Thinking more about some of the supporting characters, I was left feeling let down by Diti and Fanasi leaving. I kept waiting for them to reappear to save the day.

Binta's character was both inspiring and heartbreaking. I kind of assumed most of her friends would be killed in the fight, but her death hit me hard.

[Bretnie]

Peter wrote: "Multiple endings are typical in myths -- each storyteller ends them in their own way. That might be what is going on here.

Alternatively, by rewriting The Book, Onyesonwu has made herself such an essential part of reality (social, physical and metaphysical) that she can't really die, she only thinks that she can. And after a bit she gets tired of thinking that she's dead.
"

I like these explanations, Peter, thanks. I was thinking lately that the last ending (where she lives) could be what becomes written in The Great Book. But I'd have to look again to see if that makes sense. Sort of the legend that gets told about her compared with what actually happens to her.

[Marc]

I did actually like that the ending wasn't tied up all neatly, but I didn't like that it felt a bit like Bretnie described it... a series of P.S.-like additions.

I caught the Palm Wine Drinkard reference, but completely missed the Schoolhouse Rock one (and I'm quite fond of that song, too)!

It's interesting that our myths are often retold and rewritten, and our religious "great books" may be a conglomeration/collection of writings over time and yet we tend to think of writing as somewhat permanent. I guess it's really a matter of perspective and time. Maybe time heals all wounds because it eventually rewrites all stories...

[Kristina]

I also like the ending and that it is not tied up. I really wish, I would know more about the mythologies and legends, because I have the feeling, there are so much more references we are not getting. Thank you for the recommendation on the Palm Wine Drinkard - I might look into this.

I kinda liked that Diti and Fanasi left and stayed away, for me, it showed the complexe situation and the pressure to find their own way for their life.

[Peter]

Kristina wrote: "Thank you for the recommendation on the Palm Wine Drinkard - I might look into this. "

I found The Palm-Wine Drunkard an enjoyable read and worth reading for its own sake, and it was neat to see it referenced in this book, but I don't think it really illuminates Who Fears Death particularly.

[LindaJ^]

Whitney wrote: "The other reference was to the Schoolhouse Rock song "Three, It's a Magic Number". Here's the video for those too young to remember:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU4py... "

Great video also for those of us too old to have seen it! It is a great song! Thanks for posting the link.

[Bretnie]

I just listened to Nnedi Okorafor's 9 minute Ted-talk about her science fiction writing. While she's talking about books besides this one, it has a lot of overlaps - technology and the "what ifs" that science fiction aims to ask.

I don't think I've verbalized it, but I appreciated reading this book to give us a different perspective on sci-fi. That the western "what ifs" might be different than other culture's "what ifs."

https://www.ted.com/talks/nnedi_okora...