Who Fears Death - Parts I & II (Jan 2019)

[Bretnie]

I'm excited to discuss this book with everyone! I'll add some discussion questions here tomorrow, but in general, this thread is for the first two parts of the book (roughly the first half). Spoilers are ok up until the beginning of Part III.

[Bretnie]

The book sets the scene early of the violence, roles of women, and some pretty explicit intense subjects (rape, female circumcision). I found it an interesting setting that it's set in the future, but based on historic and current violence against women.

What were your first impressions as Okorafor lays out this not-real-but-based-in-reality world?

[Peter]

It took me a while to decide it was set in the future, and not, say an African-based secondary fantasy world. (The apparent existence and efficacy of magic doesn't make the issue any clearer.) How much difference it makes that this is supposed to be the future is unclear anyways.

[Bretnie]

Peter wrote: "It took me a while to decide it was set in the future, and not, say an African-based secondary fantasy world. (The apparent existence and efficacy of magic doesn't make the issue any clearer.) How ..."

That's a good point Peter. I thought incorporating technology as a major part of the story was interesting - this advanced world technologically, but still stuck in old ways of thinking.

[Kristina]

Peter wrote: "It took me a while to decide it was set in the future, and not, say an African-based secondary fantasy world. (The apparent existence and efficacy of magic doesn't make the issue any clearer.) How ..."

For me the same. Except for the mentioning of technology, I thought the story was set in the past or, as you say, in a parallel fantasy world with a - for me - rather unique setting.

[Whitney]

Kristina wrote: "Peter wrote: "It took me a while to decide it was set in the future, and not, say an African-based secondary fantasy world. (The apparent existence and efficacy of magic doesn't make the issue any ..."

To me, that was a feature. Like the slow reveal in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun books.

[Bretnie]

One of the things that struck me about the first half of the book were the beliefs about women and the general strong (violent) patriarchy that were still present in this "near future" society. I liked that it provided a basis for what Onye is trying to overcome, but it also made me kind of depressed that we are still having to talk about things that modern societies should be past.

Female genital mutilation, rape, and violence towards women, but also things like periods being unclean, and the traditional roles of women.

I guess I already sort of said that, and that's common in good sci-fi, but I keep thinking about it.

[Bretnie]

Another topic I found interesting was this culture's way of categorizing people as "other" based on things that are out of their control. Being born "Ewu" or twins end up defining your life.

[Whitney]

Bretnie wrote: "Another topic I found interesting was this culture's way of categorizing people as "other" based on things that are out of their control. Being born "Ewu" or twins end up defining your life."

I can't think of a single culture that doesn't categorize people that way.

[Bretnie]

Whitney wrote: "I can't think of a single culture that doesn't categorize people that way. "

True. You're right. Sigh.

[Whitney]

I thought the twin thing was interesting. Chinua Achebe was always being pressed to say something positive that resulted from colonialism. His answer was that stopping the Igbo practice of killing twins he could allow was a good thing. Since Okorafor is Igbo, I initially assumed she was showing things going the other way in the future. But, looking into it, the Yoruba and most other Nigerian ethnic groups did seem to revere twins (Okorafor has Yoruba roots as well). I found this article that discusses twins in Nigeria. I have no idea how reliable the writer is, but seems legit:
https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-trea...

I wonder how people would summarize attitudes towards twins in the US. Maybe "primarily valued for adding a creepy factor to horror movies".

[Marc]

Bretnie wrote: "I liked that it provided a basis for what Onye is trying to overcome, but it also made me kind of depressed that we are still having to talk about things that modern societies should be past..."

It often seems like societies are not truly "past" many of these things even though, on the surface, it may appear to be so--the backlash that has resulted from everything from Obama's election to immigration and the #metoo movement, seem to indicate that these issue of the "other" are alive and well. Genocide is still an issue in Sudan:
NY Times: Marching Toward a Massacre

I do think these issues can be improved/changed, but it takes both collective action and, magic aside, extraordinary individuals like Onye. I liked that, despite all her strengths and powers, Onye still needs and uses the help of friends/family/community.

It's sort of a coming-of-age story, which in part, made me feel like this book was somewhat stuck between being aimed at a YA audience and aimed at adults (subject matter and issues are certainly adult, but the characters felt somewhat YA-ish to me). Anybody else feel this way?

[Peter]

Marc wrote: "It's sort of a coming-of-age story, which in part, made me feel like this book was somewhat stuck between being aimed at a YA audience and aimed at adults (subject matter and issues are certainly adult, but the characters felt somewhat YA-ish to me). Anybody else feel this way?"

I have long since concluded that the line separating YA and Adult books is very fuzzy and probably not worth worrying about as a general thing. I also think that the presence of a YA main character does not make a book YA, even though that seems to be the reaction that many people have. Coming of Age stories ... may be YA, or may not. It depends.

[Nadine in California]

Peter wrote: "I have long since concluded that the line separating YA and Adult books is very fuzzy and probably not worth worrying about as a general thing. I also think that the presence of a YA main character does not make a book YA, even though that seems to be the reaction that many people have. Coming of Age stories ... may be YA, or may not. It depends...."

Like Marc, this book seemed YA to me, so I do see a difference between YA and adult fiction of all genres. Like you say Peter, all novels with young adult protagonists aren't YA, but from what I can see, all YA novels have teenage protagonists (say, 13-18).

For me YA is an 'I know it when I see it' thing. (And it's not better or worse than adult fiction, it's just a different thing.) I think it tends to be written in a more immediate, in-the-moment voice, tends to tell a linear story, and deals with emotions and situations that are most relevant to teenagers. Adult novels with teenage protagonists are usually written from the perspective of the adult, looking back on their lives. While I don't read much YA, I have loved some - the Harry Potter and Hunger Games series and The Giver, for example. Adult novels with teenage protagonists I've read and loved are Marlena, Moonstone: The Boy Who Never Was, Brother, or Milkman. They also deal with teenage emotions and situations, but the approach and style is totally different.

I confess that I DNF'ed Who Fears Death after about 100 pages because of its YA-ness. It's not that I didn't like it, I thought the characters and world were great, I just didn't find the story telling style and structure compelling enough to get me through almost 400 pages. I realize that there are all kinds of important themes in the book (and I like reading all the comments here to see what I'm missing). I'm not a total Okorafor failure though - I loved Binti, although the second and epecially the third books in the series Home, and The Night Masquerade got too YA-ish for me, although I read them all.

[Bretnie]

That's interesting. There were times where I didn't love the writing style, but I never had the YA feeling. Definitely some angsty teenager feelings, but considering what so many of them had been through, it didn't overpower the story for me. But I definitely hear what you're saying.

Whitney, thanks for sharing the link! That's fascinating about twins. I usually think of twins in the U.S. as research subjects since so much psychology research includes twins. We are fascinated with them as a society for sure.

[Bretnie]

Marc wrote: "I liked that, despite all her strengths and powers, Onye still needs and uses the help of friends/family/community."

I liked this too. And I liked that her friends/community were pretty different from each other. I loved Binta especially.

I thought Mwita's character is pretty interesting. She clearly needs him, but there's also some tension around him not passing the initiation and her surpassing his skills.

Other thoughts about the friends' roles? Or Onye's mother?

[Whitney]

I though the secondary characters were done well. I think it would have been unrealistic for Mwita not to nurse a little bit of resentment. In a patriarchal society where women are considered inferior, some of the attitude is going to stick to even the 'good guys".

The idea of social pressure is also there in Onyesonwu's willful submission to genital mutilation, when there was no official compulsion to do so. Subjugation of people is propagated by custom as much as by laws and edicts. It's also interesting that this horrific ceremony is how Onyesonwu finds her community of friends.

[Jessica]

Whitney wrote: "It's also interesting that this horrific ceremony is how Onyesonwu finds her community of friends..."

I thought this was really interesting too, I keep having second thoughts of why she really had to do this, but it seems it was still essential for Onye to finally belong in some way to Jawhir and have a sense of community and friendship. makes me wonder how much this can be relatable to real life and other rituals we have to perform to "belong"

[Bretnie]

That part was hard for me also. Such an extreme act just to feel less of an outcast. In a sense she became even more "different" because of the powers that are awakened. But her connection to her friends was clearly very positive.

The story tells you why she had to go through it, and it's obviously still such a big discussion point in the culture. But it also was a hard thing to read as a choice.